How Much to Stretch Granito M?
- Thread starter 3kushn
- Start date
OTLB
Banned
this is yet another example of why there should be standards. Agree with Dartman but it would be nice to have numbers for people to shoot for. Maybe next year we can have a meeting somewhere to work on this topic. Not a show and tell. A meeting of top mech's with their ego's(mine included) left at the door.
Thanks for the responses. I wish the AZ search engine was better. All I can find on the web is Simonis and Champion but they only talk about pool tables. I've read comments here that say stretch the cloth as tight as you can. Dartman's spec suggests do this and let off 1/2". OK fine, but the pattern would be nice too. Also the amount I can pull is going to be more or less what you guys can do. A standard would be awesome.
I work on a public carom table a with no complaints except from me. Got some tips from a local mechanic who I'd like to have do this but I'm in a hurry since my table has been in storage for 6 months and this is the Christmas season.
I'm starting to develop a twitch in my left eye and my wife says I'm getting short tempered. For my own health and my marriage I gotta get this done soon.
I work on a public carom table a with no complaints except from me. Got some tips from a local mechanic who I'd like to have do this but I'm in a hurry since my table has been in storage for 6 months and this is the Christmas season.
I'm starting to develop a twitch in my left eye and my wife says I'm getting short tempered. For my own health and my marriage I gotta get this done soon.
Numbers are simple enough to do - but let's not hold our breath for mfg involvement.
I'll try to find time after the first of the year to work up a stretch number by cloth style.
To OP - the simple DIY pattern is side to side then end to end.
There is an advanced way to do this that will eventually be available on DVD from RKC.
IMO where most people run into a problem is failing to mark the cloth (as below)
in order to get a consistent stretch across the table.
These marks are at 2 3/4" on 860HR. Looks easy enough to the average
DIYer until they try to hit the marks. :grin:
One of the reasons Simonis suggests installation by a professional.
Numbers are simple enough to do - but let's not hold our breath for mfg involvement.
I'll try to find time after the first of the year to work up a stretch number by cloth style.
To OP - the simple DIY pattern is side to side then end to end.
There is an advanced way to do this that will eventually be available on DVD from RKC.
IMO where most people run into a problem is failing to mark the cloth (as below)
in order to get a consistent stretch across the table.
These marks are at 2 3/4" on 860HR. Looks easy enough to the average
DIYer until they try to hit the marks. :grin:
One of the reasons Simonis suggests installation by a professional.
Thanks Dartman
I'm not against paying a professional and as it looks right now I won't be able to get it done any faster on my own anyway.
I assume from your photo that the cloth is not laying straight on the table. Hitting the marks does seem easy and 2-3/4"
stretch doesn't seem like a lot, but I believe you. Many things are harder than they look.
I have another question. I converted this table to European rubber. Plays great but the top of the rubber has what I call a mold
mark or Burr at the liner or sub rail. Very slight but sometimes a problem with the cue tip hitting it. Anyway to remove it? Or could
I leave extra cloth coming out of the feather strip and lay that down to the back edge of the rubber to reduce the bump?
By the way George Ashby has offered to help me. I want to get as much done as I can to make it as easy as possible for him.
Seams an leveling. And if possible removing/dealing with the burr. I know I can do this. If there's one thing I do have, its tools.
In the pic the cloth was already glued to the opposite side. The pic is on an angle and
may look a bit off especially where the cloth hangs over the slate edge.
I was just trying to illustrate the marking technique to assure getting consistent stretch across the table.
I'm not quite following you on the cushion. Sounds like a pimple/bump on the rubber?
If so you should be able to shave it with a razor or sand it smooth.
Thanks again Dartman. Here's the update.
First of all the mold mark is on the back edge of the rubber (where it's glued to the liner) and runs the entire length. What I did was wrap the feather strip in wax paper like you would the cloth then taped it back over the wood, and masked the cushion. Then ran a bead of silicone caulk between the feather strip and the rubber. Using the top of the rubber and top of the feather strip as a height gage I ran a putty knife to smooth it out. Worked great.
George Ashby came yesterday and we used a technique that Ceulemans taught him on stretching the cloth. Called a 12 step system. Very tight and straight thread pattern. The one thing we didn't do was mark the cloth like you do. In hindsight I wish we did for precision sake. But the cloth was straight below the staples when we finished so was very close to on line.
First of all the mold mark is on the back edge of the rubber (where it's glued to the liner) and runs the entire length. What I did was wrap the feather strip in wax paper like you would the cloth then taped it back over the wood, and masked the cushion. Then ran a bead of silicone caulk between the feather strip and the rubber. Using the top of the rubber and top of the feather strip as a height gage I ran a putty knife to smooth it out. Worked great.
George Ashby came yesterday and we used a technique that Ceulemans taught him on stretching the cloth. Called a 12 step system. Very tight and straight thread pattern. The one thing we didn't do was mark the cloth like you do. In hindsight I wish we did for precision sake. But the cloth was straight below the staples when we finished so was very close to on line.
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A word of Caution, becareful over stretching Granito M, I have seen it tear the length of table. I personally only use Simonis 300, and I have never seen this happen no matter how much you stretch it.
Good Luck
He said a lot of things but nothing that really has a bearing on this thread.
Since you're here, be good enough to remind Terry Jr/Sr that I need a check
or the rail set returned to Dick asap.
These marks are at 2 3/4" on 860HR. Looks easy enough to the average
DIYer until they try to hit the marks. :grin:
One of the reasons Simonis suggests installation by a professional.
Are you marking the cloth the length of the head and foot also and getting 2 3/4" stretch at the ends too? Or are you just marking the side and corners 2 3/4" and pulling like hell to the ends?
You can stretch the ends more without marking since the weave goes end to end.
Mark the head and foot stretch on the next table you do and let me know if you can get 2 3/4 there too. Im curious
Ill be honest. When I marked the cloth on the 3 sides for stretch I can make the opposite side but not the head and foot. I pulled the skin off my knuckles and dripped sweat from the veins popping on my forehead but could not make the stretch. Im curious if after marking all the sides you can hit the stretch and Im just a sally.
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Here's what I remember from our seminar at Alsip (Glen can correct this if necessary).
Once the sides are down pick an end and give it a good stretch but not max.
When that end is set go to the other end and stretch as much as you can.
Keep in mind we were doing the gluedown method which makes things easier compared to stapling.
JZMechanix can verify (we worked together) but I'm sure we got more end stretch then side stretch.
Consider also that we backed off the side to side stretch to less then max.
Sweating and knuckle-busting is a sign you were probably about right. :grin:
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Us guys in the small group at alsip got hands on of the top notch pool table recovery and repair...glen was aware that the knowledge he was passing to us was very valuable and profitable...and that being he said the knowledge we gain was only for us"the guys in attendence" for our profit...
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Anyone remember why he said he wouldent want to have to" track ur ass down"for? - talking to all of us there
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Rick-
Give big T a call tomorrow "friday"after 12_noon at the poolroom.
563-359-RACK
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Robert molina
Us guys in the small group at alsip got hands on of the top notch pool table recovery and repair...glen was aware that the knowledge he was passing to us was very valuable and profitable...and that being he said the knowledge we gain was only for us"the guys in attendence" for our profit...
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Anyone remember why he said he wouldent want to have to" track ur ass down"for? - talking to all of us there
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Rick-
Give big T a call tomorrow "friday"after 12_noon at the poolroom.
563-359-RACK
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Robert molina
Correct but consider there are people reading the forum that do table work and can benefit from some of the tips and procedures we picked up at Alsip. By benefit I mean gain knowledge to do a better job. If the 30 of us that were there can train-up 30 other mechanics, and they train-up 30 other mechanics and so on - then the snoball effect can really work to start reaching people in the trade that never heard of Glen, Jay or AZB. I doubt we can ever eliminate all hacks but I'd imagine we can get a lot of them trained to do quality work.
And I would take a shot in the dark and say that not everyone that didn't attend is a hack....
I'm also fairly certain that Glen has worked with alot of guys around the country, including the guys at Diamond that do things his way, that I don't know if they are, or are not hacks, but they do things his way.
There will always be people out there too lazy to improve, to ignorant to know the difference, and too indifferent to care about improving their work quality.
But, until now there has never really been a collaboration to lead the way and educate people to start eliminating the problem.
OTLB
Banned
well well, if 30 are trained here and they train 30 it won't be long before noone is busy. There already seems to be alot of diy guys visiting the forum. In a country with 10+% unemployment it doesn't seem smart to train guys in a profession like ours. I like hacks for various reasons. Just imagine a new guy in your area who was helped by the forum and then he starts taking food off your table. Be careful what you wish for. Its almost like saying you wish all rubber was good. Just think how much work you would loose. Guys, use your heads. Give people a DVD for all this and you wil be looking for work shortly thereafter. Let the guys on youtube continue to show their hackwork. Its good for us.
Perhaps I will continue in my other thread
Perhaps I will continue in my other thread
Keep in mind we were doing the gluedown method
You guys are Gluing down Billiards Cloth
that would never be acceptable for the USBA National Championships. The best Billiards Table Mechanic in the Country is a South Korean his name is Insue Park and he lives in California, he is the go to guy for 3-Cushion Tables. I have helped him cover tables for the Nationals and a World 3-Cushion event Glue is out of the question for Professional play, staples are the only way to get the cloth tight enough for 3-cushion.:wink: Take Care