How much?

Billiard Architect

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Considering the popularity explosion that TCOM put on Balabushka cues (yes I know they were popular before, just not AS popular) how much did their value increase?

I guess the easiest way to ask this is... For those of you who remember, how much would a Bushka cost just before the movie came out? I know that now they start at 10,000 and go up.

JV
 
A friend of mine ordered one new from Gus abt 1972. It's a 4 pointer with veneers SS joint and Ivory butt plate. There is an inlay in each point but I don't remember know. The price was $300 with a Felini Case. Since he wanted to speed up the delivery time he offered Gus an extra $50.

Well Gus not only speeded things up but put 4 windows in the butt. It has 2 other types of wood inlaid inside each window. Last time I spoke to him (abt two years) Barry said it was worth abt $8000. BTW it looked new plus the case is excellent. Another note he has the original box and paper work which is valuable as well. Pretty good deal huh?

Rod
 
The best cue I ever had was a Balabushka. Balabushkas and Szambotis were about the same price before TCOM, which came out in '86. I got my Balabushka from Buddy Hall in 1976, and I paid $550 for it.

Right now, today, my cue would probably be worth about $20,000 or more. It was one of a kind. I've never seen one with so many inlays, and I had five shafts. I played with it for 6 years, and then somebody went south with it. It was, without a doubt, the greatest cue I've ever played with. I wish I had one now. :cool:
 
Johnny "V" said:
Considering the popularity explosion that TCOM put on Balabushka cues (yes I know they were popular before, just not AS popular) how much did their value increase?

I guess the easiest way to ask this is... For those of you who remember, how much would a Bushka cost just before the movie came out? I know that now they start at 10,000 and go up.

JV
Hi John.

At the time of TCOM, there were only a handful of collectable cues. Balabushka, Szamboti, Martin, Ginacue, Tad Kohara as well as Balner/Palmer, Frye/Paradise cues.

IIRC, Balabushkas were already at the top of the list in '86, with cues reaching the $2000 - $5000 mark. IMO, those cues have doubled or quadrupled in value (amount that an average collector would pay).

That is to say, they were already head and shoulders above the rest, IMO, when TCOM came about. They were the reason why people collected cues before collecting became en vogue, and they already commanded an a high price before TCOM.

FWIW

Fred <~~~IMHO
 
Keith McCready said:
The best cue I ever had was a Balabushka. Balabushkas and Szambotis were about the same price before TCOM, which came out in '86. I got my Balabushka from Buddy Hall in 1976, and I paid $550 for it.

Right now, today, my cue would probably be worth about $20,000 or more. It was one of a kind. I've never seen one with so many inlays, and I had five shafts. I played with it for 6 years, and then somebody went south with it. It was, without a doubt, the greatest cue I've ever played with. I wish I had one now. :cool:
im 12 years old as if you dont know but my brother showed me The Color of Money and just wanted to say you where great
 
Keith McCready said:
I played with it for 6 years, and then somebody went south with it. It was, without a doubt, the greatest cue I've ever played with. I wish I had one now. :cool:

That would make me absolutly sick (sorry I imagine it did to you also). I think I would be looking for "somebodys" head!!! Hell I felt like crap when my $300 Huebler split in the forearm. I would imagine that a rare bushka would have a hard time hiding ;)

JV
 
Fred Agnir said:
Hi John.

At the time of TCOM, there were only a handful of collectable cues. Balabushka, Szamboti, Martin, Ginacue, Tad Kohara as well as Balner/Palmer, Frye/Paradise cues.

IIRC, Balabushkas were already at the top of the list in '86, with cues reaching the $2000 - $5000 mark. IMO, those cues have doubled or quadrupled in value (amount that an average collector would pay).

That is to say, they were already head and shoulders above the rest, IMO, when TCOM came about. They were the reason why people collected cues before collecting became en vogue, and they already commanded an a high price before TCOM.

FWIW

Fred <~~~IMHO
Fred I read your great article on Bushka and his cues. The one question that always comes to mind is 'what makes a great cue a great cue?'. I have seen references to wood, blanks and joints. But all cuemakers put or use these things in their cues. I am sure that Georges cues have been dissected to find out why they play like they do. What was George’s secret? Was it the way he settled the wood? Was it the way the butt was put together? What makes them a "one of a kind"?

JV
 
Johnny "V" said:
Fred I read your great article on Bushka and his cues. The one question that always comes to mind is 'what makes a great cue a great cue?'. I have seen references to wood, blanks and joints. But all cuemakers put or use these things in their cues. I am sure that Georges cues have been dissected to find out why they play like they do. What was George’s secret? Was it the way he settled the wood? Was it the way the butt was put together? What makes them a "one of a kind"?

JV

I have wondered about this as well. Didn't Burton Spain make a lot of blanks for Bushka?
 
Johnny "V" said:
Fred I read your great article on Bushka and his cues. The one question that always comes to mind is 'what makes a great cue a great cue?'. I have seen references to wood, blanks and joints. But all cuemakers put or use these things in their cues. I am sure that Georges cues have been dissected to find out why they play like they do. What was George’s secret? Was it the way he settled the wood? Was it the way the butt was put together? What makes them a "one of a kind"?

JV
I think simply put, he was meticulous about what went into his cues and how the parts went together, with a lot of thought into what would happen to the cue as it aged. He pioneered that level of quality. Every detail and dimension had a reason. The fact that a great number of Balabushkas still play quite solidly today compared to many of his peers' cues is a testament to that quality.

I am still stunned to hear new (and old) cuemakers suggesting that making a cue is a simple task and that there's only so many ways to put wood together and turn it into a cue. After my discussion with so many different world-class cuemakers and their thought and manufacturing processes, it is obvious to me that the suggestion is hogwash.

Fred
 
there's no science to back me up, but i'd bet balabushka's oil finish kept the wood feeling alive, and providing plenty of feedback to the user.
 
The increase in values of Balabushka cues after the Color of Money was not even across the entire line of cues made by George. The percentage appreciation was greater for top of the line Balabushkas. I'd say that top of the line Balabushkas have tripled in value since the Color of Money.

When I used to go to the Golden Q in Queens, NY, George used to come by from time to time, and he sold many a cue to the regular clientele. At the time, I could have bought one of his better cues for $300. When people ask me why I didn't, I have to explain that I was a teenager who had never even seen $300.

As I'm sure most of you know, Gus Szamboti had been George's assistant and understudy, and they used to do some of their work out of George's garage in the Bay Ridge section of Brooklyn, NY. George made a cue or two for another resident of Bay Ridge, the great Jean Balukas.
 
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sjm said:
As I'm sure most of you know, Gus Szamboti had been George's assistant and understudy, and they used to do so of their work out of George's garage in the Bay Ridge section of Brooklyn, NY. George made a cue or two for another resident of Bay Ridge, the great Jean Balukas.

Just out of curiosity, does Jean Balukas still play with her Balabushka cue?

JAM
 
Thought this might be a good thread in which to share a George Balabushka anecdote told to me by straight pool legend Pete Margo.

Pete related that if you were one of the few George didn't really care for, he wouldn't make you a cue, or even a shaft, and that was that. If he liked you a lot, however, and Pete Margo of Staten Island, NY, was always one of his true favorites, he might make you a cue even if you didn't ask for one. Pete once told me that George called him at 1:00 AM on the phone once in the early 1970's, saying "Pete, I made you a cue, you've got to come to Brooklyn to try it out." If George really liked you, he took care of you. Pete had a friend, though, on George's s**t list, and Pete tried to do his friend a favor by asking George "Would you make a cue for me?", but offering his friend's specifications. According to Pete, George got wind of it and the cue was never made!

I wonder if Stradavarius was like that on the matter of who he made a violin for!
 
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Please allow me to correct some false or misinformed information.

Gus Szamboti and George Balabushka never ever worked together on cues. In fact, they never even discussed methods or trade secrets with one another. Moreover, George was very secretive about his techniques and never disclosed any information with any cuemakers of that time, until Pete Tascarella(Pete's just my opinion, not spoken by Barry). The ONLY relationship that George and Gus had was that Gus made short spliced blanks for George, and that relationship could not have been formed prior to 1973 which is when Gus first started making prongs.

From conversations that I've had with Barry Szamboti in the past, I get the impression that his dad was for the most part self taught in area of cuemaking and that most of his progress was a direct result of trial and error. For example, let me share with you this quick story that Barry told me the last time I was at his shop. I'll put it in quotes, but it won't be verbatim to what Barry told me, mostly because I can't remember it word for word, but the story is true.

"My dad made his first prongs after 1973. It had to be, because that's when my brother got his drivers license. I remember dad working in the shop, trying to make these prongs, and he kept sending my brother and I to Sears to buy sawblades. There is no way that my dad was making prongs prior to that year, because that's when my brother turned 16 and was able to drive."

Listening to that story, while standing in Barry's shop and looking at all of the equipment, I could almost see visions of his dad standing in front of a piece of machinery and trying to figure out how to make prongs.

Anyway, having said that, rest assure that Gus Szamboti's only mentor was himself and that he never discussed, much less studied cuemaking from George Balabushka.

While it may have been possible to order a Gus Szamboti cue in 1972, it would be impossible to order a '4-pointer', as at that time, Gus was not making pronged cues. If he discovered prongs for himself in 1973, which according to Barry we know is a fact, then that cue must have been ordered in late 1973-1974. However, if he gave Gus an extra 50.00 to get it quicker(according to Barry, this was not uncommon for his dad to do), then I suspect that the cue must have been ordered in 1975 or later. My reasoning is that to my knowledge, Gus or Barry for that matter, wouldn't just throw together a blank and turn it into a cue. Gus would have needed time to build up a supply of 4 point blanks after he discovered how to make them in 1973, and those blanks would have needed time to cure, age and to be turned before Gus put them in a cue. So I would hazzard to guess that you friends Gus was made more in the 1975-1976 range at the absolute earliest.

Unfortunately, these men, as well as many other cuemakers from yesterday became famous after their ultimate demise, and many things that we hear or know about them is nothing more than folklore. Rumors that after being spread for so many years, turn into facts and so on. Luckily, in the case of Gus Szamboti, we have his son Barry to confirm or deny stories, facts, or any information about his dad. I'll leave you with this final thought from Barry, spoken to me in person.

"I can only confirm what someone tells me if I know it's a fact. Take my personal Gus Szamboti cue for example, I know my dad made it, but I didn't watch him make it with my own two eyes, so therefore I cannot say 100% that it's one of dad's cues."

Barry Szamboti would have never told me that his dad and George never worked together on cues together, unless he knew it was a fact.
 
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accdealer said:
Please allow me to correct some false or misinformed information. Gus Szamboti and George Balabushka never ever worked together on cues. In fact, they never even discussed methods or trade secrets with one another. Moreover, George was very secretive about his techniques and never disclosed any information with any cuemakers of that time, until Pete Tascarella(Pete's just my opinion, not spoken by Barry). The ONLY relationship that George and Gus had was that Gus made short spliced blanks for George, and that relationship could not have been formed prior to 1973 which is when Gus first started making prongs.

Thanks for clearing this up. It has always been a confusing subject for me. Sounds like Gus was no more than a supplier for George. I know somebody who saw Gus in George's garage in the mid-70's, and George's widow Josephine, whom I met a few years ago, recalled that Gus had been in her house. I guess somewhere along the line, most likely well over twenty years ago, a rumor spread that they had collaborated, but, in view of your post, it's obviously not the case. Count me among those taken in, but I now know the real story, with many thanks to you, Accdealer.
 
sjm said:
As I'm sure most of you know, Gus Szamboti had been George's assistant and understudy,
This is completely false. They never worked together. They didn't discuss cue making with each other.

George loved quality, and Gus was making the best available half-spliced blanks. That was the relationship.

Some great information is out there concerning Balabushka, including the Blue Book of Pool Cues, the Billiard Encyclopedia. There have also been a couple of articles this year commerating his induction into the BCA Hall of Fame in the billiard magazines. One in Billiards Digest (Martyne Backman) and one in InsidePOOL Magazine (yours, humbly). I don't know if Pool and Billiard Mag. did an article on him.

Fred
 
I knew them both!

I spoke with George many times and had him make a cue for me around '75. I had a hell of a time convincing him to make a Plain Jane, no wrap, and no rings. I wanted just a rose wood butt with nice points & 3 shafts. I wanted it to match my original Balabushka in balance, length, weight, etc. I sent him my original to duplicate and he did a wonderful job. He had had the cue for about 2 months and I was getting anxious to not only get my New cue but also to get back my stick that I played everyday with. I mailed him a Western Union Money Order for $75 and asked him to just "Please Hurry". He called me when he got it and was upset that I thought I could hurry him by a monetary offer. He said he considered us to be friends and he wouldn't hurry any extra for money. I GOT MY CUES IN ABOUT 5 MORE DAYS.
He couldn't OR wouldn't make it a Plain Jane. It had the rings on the joint and a gold colored band around the butt bottom. Just like my original though, you could take a razor blade and set it on 17.5 inches and that’s where it was balanced.

While in Philadelphia playing Joe Fury ($300 one pocket for 4 or 5 days) at Fusco's poolroom, I met Gus. George had passed away and I needed some new shafts. Gus had me over to his shop in the basement and later we had one of the best spaghetti dinners I have ever had. Gus had mentioned that he had done some kind of work with George but for the life of me, I can't remember what he specifically said he did. What impressed me the most about Gus was the way he made his own tips and the length he went to get them just right. His tips had a base and were the best I have ever played with.

FYI - My original Balabushka (in the Blue Book) has been authenticated by John Wright and is in a Safety Deposit Box along with about 18 shafts from George & Gus. I also have the original shipping tubes & mail labels. I couldn't believe it when John told me that even the broken shafts by George could be worth $500. I asked WHY? He said because "He Ain't Makin Any More".
I have a "Certified Check" offer ($23,000) from a Dentist in Dallas that is dated July 15, 1993. He says the check is still good and anytime I want to cash it, he trusts me to send the cue. (I know him - & him me, personally)
TY & GL
 
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