how the @$!% do I get my stroke in line

[Icon of Sin]

Hows your dads new cue holding up? Thats a beaut!
Don

Thanks Don.

He loves it. We had it turned down to 12.75 and had the tips replaced to Triangle from Lepro since that is what we are more familiar with. Loves the hit, had three break and runs with it last night actually.

 

[catscradle]

... but don't like to gamble. That seems to be a problem for some people.
Purdman

... but there are plenty of people to play who don't mind just playing for the "thrill of victory".

 

[Flex]

I'm not so sure Egg really wants to gamble. I located a few places where that would be easy to obtain, mentioning some of the players, but he didn't find that to be too interesting. Gotta say he sure seems to like hitting the balls very hard and firing the object ball into the pockets. That's not always conducive to winning at the table however.

As for the alignment question, my suggestion is to get Bert Kinister's Advanced Fundamentals tape (be happy to lend it to you, Egg, just let me know if you'd like to see it) where he shows how to find your own perfect alignment, based upon your body shape.

Flex

 

[scottycoyote]

alignment is a huge issue with me.......ive found it all comes down to my foot placement when i address the ball and get down into my stance. I have to make sure that i like up with the stick in line with the shot and my body to the right, then i pivot around and down into my stance. I forgot this a few months ago and my game suffered and i couldnt understand why until i went back over my notes.

 

[Dhakala]

Put the cue away and concentrate on your stroking arm.

First, just let your arm fall straight down to your side. Relax all muscles right down to your fingertips. You'll find that the back of your hand lines up perfectly with your wrist and forearm. Your fingers will be curled slightly. The pinkie finger will be curled slightly higher than the other three. Your thumb will not be touching any finger.

Now, bend over as if settling down on a shot. Using only your shoulder muscles, raise your upper arm until it is parallel to the floor. Your forearm will now hang straight down. Focus on the muscles of the forearm and hand; they should remain limp.

Now, start swinging your forearm back and forth using only the muscles in your upper arm. The muscles of the forearm and hand should still remain limp. Your hand should remain aligned with your wrist.

All that remains is to curl your index, middle, and ring fingers just enough to cradle the cue. Only the muscles required to do this should be tensed. The rest of your forearm and hand muscles should remain limp.

Work on this without a cue in hand for a while. Then add the cue and approach the table.

 

[Matt_24]

Hmmmmm.......to put it simply.

If you know how to get in line, you'll be in line.

 

[DaveK]

I learned informally myself (don't ask 'why', it just doesn't matter at this point), and have had problems with my stroke over the years. Actually, I find that I have several different strokes, and most are not very good. Over the last year or so, in an effort to exorcise my demon strokes, I've been working on keeping things lined up and straight. I have found that by always finishing my stroke in the same position, ending with my thumb tucked under my right pectoral, my stroke is much straighter in general. I haven’t seen some of the demon strokes in a while, but that damned ‘scoop-stroke’ will sometimes appear when I try to do a power draw

This assumes that my alignment is good ... all bets are off if my body is somehow twisted. My always twisted mind does not seem to cause too much grief, thankfully

Dave

 

[Russ Chewning]

I usually stroke through an ole timey coke bottle, a couple days a week, or i try to before I play.

While all of the other posts have good points, in my humble opinion, this one is the best. I would go further to say get a 1L liquor bottle instead, tho. Longer follow through.

For some players who just don't have the patience to follow systems, and don't like having to think about their stroke, this bottle drill forces you to DO. If your stroke has ANY flaws at all, it will cause you to shave the edges off your tip. Practice stroking slowly at first, then build up speed as your stroke self corrects.

Practice stroking all the way to the back of the bottle, tapping it lightly. This will give you a professional length follow through. Then, the only challenge is to keep that stroke straight once you start hitting the balls. That is a confidence issue, that will resolve itself once you hit enough balls.

This exercise also allows you to become comfortable with stroking extremely slow shots perfectly straight.

Russ

 

[Egg McDogit]

I usually stroke through an ole timey coke bottle, a couple days a week, or i try to before I play.

I can stroke through a bottle (with my eyes closed) with no problems. Your stroke can be pretty crooked and you'll still be able to do this. Being able to stroke through a bottle has nothing to do with your stroke being in line though

 

[Egg McDogit]

Believe it or not, I've tried this - I've used a hard wristwrap thinking that it'd help me find an alignment that is straight - but it really didn't help...good idea though

Then, I would have him wrap his forearm in ACE bandage keeping it straight. You want to stroke a lot of shots from the elbow down and using several different strokes (hard, soft, draw, follow, stun, etc). It is repetition.

Be aware that your game will get much worse for a few months but once you get used to it you should be able to pass your current play ability.

 

[Egg McDogit]

It is definitely my alignment - my stroke is 20 degrees out of line with my stick, the problem is finding an alignment that gets it in line has been impossible. I've also tried stroke with 3 fingers (and 2)

Perhaps it is your body/head/feet alignment and NOT your stroke. This cannot be diagnosed over the internet, but if you get with an instructor that know the difference it could save you a lot of trouble. Stroke mechanics are different for every player, so is body alignment, balance, etc. There is also the case where you could be twisting the cue by having the wrong grip.

Usually I have my students remove their thumb completely from the grip and try stroking with just the 3 fingers (ring, middle, forefinger) - in the thumb's absence you will see some wonderful action applied to the cue ball. This is because we have muscles that connect the thumb, wrist and forearm... the major muscle is called the Flexor Pollicis Longis- which is also connected to other tendons in the wrist and the forearm.

In this diagram you can see the deep muscles and tendons that you would use to perform your stroke. As you can clearly see, the Flexor Pollicis Longis moves in a different direction than the other muscles. Try eliminating your thumb from the grip for a few shots and see what happens. Afterwards, gently return your thumb loosely back into the grip. I think you will be surprised at the difference.

 

[Egg McDogit]

good suggestion, but even if I use it, my arm will move at a 20 degree angle in respect to my stroking line..

I think a straight stroke is the single most important factor in one's mechanics. Right up there with it is alignment. Go and buy Joe Tuckers 3rd Eye stroke training device. It's about 20$, sold on the marketplace here. Use it everyday for a few days and you will be amazed at how straight you will start stroking thru the cueball. This is not a plug for Joe. I bought the device a while back and it works wonders, and it fixes numerous other problems with one's game, like twisting, alignment, and finding exactly where centerball is. If you watch alot of pros, many of them have crooked backstrokes, but their forward strokes are very straight. That's all that matters. Get this device and your problem will be solved. I went thru the same thing you are going thru, I know exactly how you feel.

 

[Egg McDogit]

Shannon Daulton

for anyone out there who's having trouble aligning - especially those with a gut - this is a GREAT suggestion and very smart. (Breakup - I'm taking you in the williebetmore challenge!)

Unfortunately, I've already tried to copy him, but it doesn't work for me.

 

[Egg McDogit]

Egg, I gave you the BOOK! The Pool School BOOK from RandyG. Would you like another copy?
Purdman
PS: Set, Pause, Finish & Freeze!! Grip, Bridge, Stance & Stroke! Check it out!

Thanks, but the first thing I tried was redo-ing my alignment based on books and pictures of other people (with similar builds)...doesn't work for me

 

[Egg McDogit]

Unfortunately I didn't have a natural stroke when I started playing - and I also never knew I'd end up playing so much. When I got better, I was told that your stroke mechanics don't matter as long as you deliver a straight forward stroke - but I've found that that's shortsighted.

Right now I don't know if it's impossible to find the right alignment - or if I can't find it because I'm so engrained in habits like the way I get down that it's just hard to change.

So anyways, to anyone that's fairly new to the game and hasn't solidly adapted a stroke yet - this is why you want to make sure you have the basics down. As a side note - don't assume that stroke instructors know what a straight stroke is - most don't. That is the truth.

there is no quick fix for someone with improper stroke mechanics that has been that way for a long time, THAT'S WHY it is important to learn the RIGHT WAY TO BEGIN WITH. Evidently, you developed your crooked stroke for all the wrong reasons, and none of the right reasons.

It is pretty common for someone to reach limits in their game when they do not have the PROPER BASICS down, and reteaching someone is much harder than teaching someone brand spanking new.

This is why all sports have standard form and mechanics to them to be able to perform them at the highest levels.

You didn't think about this when you started playing? why not?

 

[Egg McDogit]

I've tried that too

I used to have the opposite problem; my elbow was way outside my shot so my forearm was pointing back in toward my body to stroke the cue. It made it hrad to repeatably stroke straight. I had a lesson where an instructor pointed this out using video to show me what I was doing, and he helped me figure out how to stand and hold my arm so that I was back in line, but what he didn't teach me was how to keep my stroking arm "in plane" and avoid slipping back into my old position.

So I figured out an exercise to help: I found a small section of wall in my apartment (one that didn't just run into other walls, but stopped in the middle of the room) and held my cue flat against it, sighted down the cue, and found a spot to aim at on the opposite wall of the room so that the first wall was "pointing at" the spot on the opposite wall.

Then I lined up so that my shooting shoulder was against the little wall but my head was out in the room (so the wall didn't limit how I positioned my head). Focusing on the spot on the opposite wall, I bent down into stance, and took practice strokes with my shooting shoulder, elbow, and knuckles of my grip hand were all touching the wall, ensuring that my stroke was on plane. As long as those three points, should, elbow, and hand, were all against the wall, I knew I was aligned well, and all I had to do was take practice strokes in that position, "aiming" at the spot on the opposite wall, until the correct alignment was grooved. My game still has problems, but my shooting arm plane is not one of them.

-Andrew

 

[Russ Chewning]

I can stroke through a bottle (with my eyes closed) with no problems. Your stroke can be pretty crooked and you'll still be able to do this. Being able to stroke through a bottle has nothing to do with your stroke being in line though

Well, try a different bottle. You can't stroke into a 1 Liter liquor bottle and tap the center of the back of the bottle without having an absolutely straight stroke. The neck does not widen out until you are about three inches in.

I reread your original post after I wrote my first paragraph, and I see what the problem might be. You need to practice this bottle drill, but only moving your lower arm at first. Do not allow anything else to move on the shot. Change your stance until you can do the bottle drill without moving anything other than your lower arm. Plenty of billiard literarure out there to tell you the recommended stance..

You're probably not going to be able to tap the back of the bottle by only moving your forearm, but that's okay for now. You will notice a dip in your cuetip as you stroke further into the bottle. Once you have corrected your stroke thus far, then you will need to pratice dropping your elbow slightly towards the end of your stroke, in order to keep your tip moving forward in a straight line. Most pros have this elbow dip on distance shots they need to stroke well.

I know this sounds like a lot of work, but I believe it is necessary. You have worked a whole bunch of moving parts into your stroke, therefore it will take a long time to work them all back out. The bottle training has the added benefit that it does not reinforce a bad stroke in the same way pocketing a ball with a bad stroke might do.

Russ C

 

[Flex]

How's it going, Egg?

Have you even given Bert Kinister's ideas on alignment a look over? Perhaps you have, and have tried them out and they didn't work for you. If that's the case, just forget my suggestion. On the other hand, if you haven't, and given all the work you've obviously put into getting your stroke straighter, you probably owe it to yourself to try his method and give it a fair chance. The onehanded shooting he prescribes, with the necessary detail for you to get the feel of shooting one handed, and afterwards two handed, will help just about anybody, IMHO, including those with naturally straight strokes.

Good luck.

Flex

Flex

 

[Russ Chewning]

How's it going, Egg?

Have you even given Bert Kinister's ideas on alignment a look over? Perhaps you have, and have tried them out and they didn't work for you. If that's the case, just forget my suggestion. On the other hand, if you haven't, and given all the work you've obviously put into getting your stroke straighter, you probably owe it to yourself to try his method and give it a fair chance. The onehanded shooting he prescribes, with the necessary detail for you to get the feel of shooting one handed, and afterwards two handed, will help just about anybody, IMHO, including those with naturally straight strokes.

Good luck.

Flex

Flex

I used to be amazed at players who could play well one handed. Then, I worked to perfect my stroke by using the bottle as detailed before. My fundamentals were solid, but I had never thought of playing one handed.

Then, in an attempt to handicap myself against a date adequately enough to give her a chance but still push myself to play hard, I started playing her one handed. Only to find that the shots weren't much harder one handed than they were two handed. And I played some run out 8 ball playing one handed. After that day, it made me realize those old time hustlers weren't really doing all that much playing one handed against really weak players.

Russ Chewning

 

[Island Drive]

I've been playing pool pretty seriously for the last few years with a really crooked stroke. Up until recently, I felt that it really doesn't matter how crooked your stroke is as long as you stroke the ball. But I'm starting to realize how untrue this is...especially when hitting balls softer or under pressure. And it also has a great effect on your overall precision, beyond just pocketing balls.

The line my stroking arm makes is about 20 degrees off-line in respect with my stick (inwards towards my body)...meaning that I stroke the ball really crooked but my stick goes straight (kind of) because my wrist bends/twists and my upper/lower arm and shoulder all move to accomodate it.

I've tried everything I can think of to try to get it in line, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. I've spent weeks working on this - and am wondering if anyone has had the same problem and managed to fix it somehow. I don't know if it's my build or what.

I've decided that if I can't get my stroke in line then I have to stop playing pool seriously. I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, but I know how I am and I think it's going to turn into something very unhealthy and self-destructive otherwise. I've been pretty down about it because I really love pool...but at the same time I can't just "play for fun"...I need to feel like I'm getting somewhere with it. I'm sure some people can understand that feeling.

Please don't respond if you're just going to say 'shooting straight isn't that important.

Egg, without seeing you actually playing and what is causing your dilemma its nearly impossible to help, but you must first be balanced, or its like putting a grandfather clock on unlevel ground and expecting the pendulum to swing back and forth effortlessly and in line. If your balanced when down on your shot, your bridge hand should be laying on the table with pretty much just gravity weight. When you look down at the floor in the shooting position your upper torso weight should be the "third element" of your balanced body. The upper torso weight should be between your front foot and your back foot and as you open your stance when in the shooting position your torso weight "third element" will move away from the body and start forming a perfect triangle of weight distribution, so its like a triangle with a weight on each end and as your stance closes the third point of weight (torso) will move inward but still be equadistant from the other two points of weight which are your 2 footsies. Hope this explanation is understandable.