How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) - new videos by Dr. Dave and Bob Jewett

stan shuffett said:
[...]
Since CTE is so perceptually based I doubt you will find your lasers and other such tools of real help. Bottom line...you will be dealing with a system that was never supposed to be.....there is a reason why it will be a toughie for anyone to assign math solution for......it can be done though IMO.

Stan Shuffett
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Not sure I agree with that, Stan. If I can "see" a perception, I, in theory, "should" be able to point a laser line down that perception. I am very interested to learn what those perceptions are, so I can show it, and show the angles to the pocket.

I know you say you've been at this for thousands of hours, but correct me if I'm wrong, no one with a true math background has taken to dissecting CTE. Everyone I've seen so far has said, "don't worry about the math -- just accept that it works!" That, to me, is the "faith"-based method, not the scientific method.

You leave that to me. ;)
-Sean
 
This is getting utterly crazy. Math and pool are like a supermodel and a Big Mac. They just aren't good for each other.

I don't care if someone comes out with a system that claims to be mathematically sound. If it gets the job done its fine by me. CTE gets the job done for some. It gets that ball in the hole. And since no ones stroke is perfect, I can't be sure if my misses whilst using CTE were because of the system, or because of the stroke. I choose to not use CTE now because I find it massively over complicates a simple job. Aiming isn't complicated.

As for some claims about some aiming systems... Someone once claimed a man turned water into wine. If people can believe that they will believe anything. Again, I don't care for outlandish claims. I find it pathetic that some people have to destroy threads like this with a slagging match. He said, she said. Pathetic. CTE users seem to take massive offense when someone says they aren't a fan of it. Why? If it is the be all end all of pool then why not keep quiet, and make a ton of money at the table taking all the non CTE users money...after all, you can't lose with something as strong as CTE, right? REAL CTE, that is ;-)
 
Pidge said:
This is getting utterly crazy. Math and pool are like a supermodel and a Big Mac. They just aren't good for each other.

I don't care if someone comes out with a system that claims to be mathematically sound. If it gets the job done its fine by me. CTE gets the job done for some. It gets that ball in the hole. And since no ones stroke is perfect, I can't be sure if my misses whilst using CTE were because of the system, or because of the stroke. I choose to not use CTE now because I find it massively over complicates a simple job. Aiming isn't complicated.

As for some claims about some aiming systems... Someone once claimed a man turned water into wine. If people can believe that they will believe anything. Again, I don't care for outlandish claims. I find it pathetic that some people have to destroy threads like this with a slagging match. He said, she said. Pathetic. CTE users seem to take massive offense when someone says they aren't a fan of it. Why? If it is the be all end all of pool then why not keep quiet, and make a ton of money at the table taking all the non CTE users money...after all, you can't lose with something as strong as CTE, right? REAL CTE, that is ;-)
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Exhibit A of the "faith"-based approach. Pidge, I know you mean well, but your post is an example of why this animosity continues.

Just trust that some people are sick and tired of "faith"-based anything, and want to see the inner workings. There's no harm or foul in that, and CTE proponents -- if they truly are interested in the furthering of their system -- should welcome anyone wanting to take on the task of lifting the covers and exposing the inner workings.

This is the last obstacle -- the last bastion, if you will -- of this whole thing.

-Sean
 
By the way, folks, as an idea, let's take this discussion of math and CTE into its own thread, and leave Dr. Dave's thread alone. I'll do the honors of creating that new thread, and I welcome folks to continue the discussion there.

Back to the intended original programming of Dr. Dave's HAPS.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
.

I know you say you've been at this for thousands of hours, but correct me if I'm wrong, no one with a true math background has taken to dissecting CTE. Everyone I've seen so far has said, "don't worry about the math -- just accept that it works!" That, to me, is the "faith"-based method, not the scientific method.

You leave that to me. ;)
-Sean
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Not exactly true Sean, I'm an Engineer by degree so my math capabilities are reasonable at worst. I don't know but I am fairly certain the math for CTE/Pro One will never be explained by simple Geometry or even Trigonometry. I more expect it to be calculus/differential equation related. I paid my dues on that stuff almost 40 years ago now. That's why I, as you put it "don't worry about the math -- just accept that it works!",

I continue to struggle about the relevance of the math. I understand, at one level, the desire to prove the validity 110% because the math shows it. I've worked with it a couple of years now and have seen way more than enough to know it works as advertised. There are no "adjustments" or "feel tweaking" required to make the ball go in. In fact, if you attempt to adjust or tweak, there's about a 98% chance you'll cause yourself to miss.

You're also overlooking other science. Everything in science isn't mathematically proven. Something that can be measured and repeated to a certain level statistically can be accepted as scientific fact. If you take a pool shaft, you can't by math alone prove it is straight (or crooked). You would take measurements of some kind. Then apply math to determine the degree of straightness. If I set up lasers or a series of micrometers to measure the shaft and take those measurements, I probably don't even need the math. There's something that's not so common these days called common sense that also applies. Frankly, if I witness something with my own eyes and see that it is repeatable, I'm more likely to believe my eyes than math anyway.

The difficult part of CTE/Pro One to understand and teach is the perceptions, the visual part of it. How do I describe color to someone blind from birth? However Sean, I'll bet if you and I spent 30 minutes at a table together, you would be seeing and understanding, to a degree, the visuals and perceptions referred to by Stan in his DVD's and YouTube videos. Some people see it real quickly, some take longer. It took me longer because my scientific mind made me take everything too literally.
 
Pidge said:
This is getting utterly crazy. Math and pool are like a supermodel and a Big Mac. They just aren't good for each other.

I don't care if someone comes out with a system that claims to be mathematically sound. If it gets the job done its fine by me. CTE gets the job done for some. It gets that ball in the hole. And since no ones stroke is perfect, I can't be sure if my misses whilst using CTE were because of the system, or because of the stroke. I choose to not use CTE now because I find it massively over complicates a simple job. Aiming isn't complicated.

As for some claims about some aiming systems... Someone once claimed a man turned water into wine. If people can believe that they will believe anything. Again, I don't care for outlandish claims. I find it pathetic that some people have to destroy threads like this with a slagging match. He said, she said. Pathetic. CTE users seem to take massive offense when someone says they aren't a fan of it. Why? If it is the be all end all of pool then why not keep quiet, and make a ton of money at the table taking all the non CTE users money...after all, you can't lose with something as strong as CTE, right? REAL CTE, that is ;-)
Click to expand...

Phil B. is doing just fine!

Stan Shuffett
 
nobcitypool said:
Not exactly true Sean, I'm an Engineer by degree so my math capabilities are reasonable at worst.[...]
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I replied to this in the new thread I promised, "Proving CTE out, through math" thread, to keep Dr. Dave's thread on track.

-Sean
 
dr_dave said:
I am happy to announce that Bob Jewett and I just finished up a year-long project called How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS). If you want to check it out, the following free clips are posted online:

HAPS-I: Aiming Systems, Aiming with Sidespin
NV E.1 - Fractional-Ball Aiming, from HAPS I
NV E.2 - Back-Hand (BHE) and Front-Hand English (FHE), from HAPS I
NV E.3 - Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, from HAPS I

HAPS-II: Aiming Specialty Shots
NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II
NV E.5 - Combination Shot Throw Adjustment, from HAPS II
NV E.6 - Rail Cut Shot Aiming, w/ and w/o Sidespin, from HAPS II

HAPS-III: Aiming Kick and Bank Shots
NV E.7 - Mirror Kick-Shot Aiming System, from HAPS III
NV E.8 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice Bank-Shot Aiming System, from HAPS III

We hope you enjoy and benefit from the clips, and we look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards,
Dave and Bob

PS: If you want to learn more about HAPS, lots of info including a complete, detailed outline (listing everything covered) and useful online resources, can be found on the HAPS website.
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Dr. Dave, I sincerely and profusely apologize for my part in this latest escalation of the drama, and the continued derailing of this thread. Once again, I will dig into your latest material as soon as I can, and let you know what helped me the most.

Stan, I apologize for offending you in whatever way that I have. As I pointed out to Robin when he and I started our exchange, I think that I was a fairly objective observer to all that went on. And I do not claim that I have any knowledge of pool beyond the uttermost basic principals, so I don't come at this from any perspective at all. Just an observer of the forum, and trying to take it all in, and see what can help me.

I have never spent any time with CTE, because I know that I won't be able to spend the consistent practice time that it would take to learn it properly. And that is the same reason I haven't attempted CJ's TOI, or any other more advanced techniques. (Note that I intentionally avoided the use of the dreaded S-word, "system".) I don't doubt that what you teach works for those who can take the time to learn it, and actively wish to do so. Same with TOI, and other things that folks use and teach. I hope to someday have the time to really study this game...

I have tried to support you on the forums through all this, if only in the spirit of fairness. I don't appreciate the vitriol that gets spewed here by many. And when I say by many, I mean by many on both sides of the argument. Too many here have too much to share to let this stuff get us all dragged down into petty bickering and name-calling.

Robin, I apologize for dragging you into the middle of all this. I should have known better, and I did tell you that this tomb should have stayed sealed. I agree, I think we were having a fine discussion, without harming anyone. We truly should have taken it into a different thread, and that is my fault. I'll own that one. I know better.

I hope folks have some fun and play some pool this weekend.
 
Pidge said:
So are Judd Trump, Daz and Gareth Potts. Better in fact ;-)
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Thanks, Pidge! Darren has spoken positively of CTE PRO ONE. On TAR he even indicated that he thought the Philipinos.use Pro One....I feel certain he meant the sweeping aspects .

Yes, Judd and Gareth are great players.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Phil B. is doing just fine!

Stan Shuffett
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Firstly, I suspect Phil B was potting them off the lampshades from about 8 years old, and secondly, he's nowhere near the top cueist in the world. You make yourself look stupid with these examples. They may impress your followers but no one else. You lot even list shortstops on here as proof, which is absolutely laughable.

Find me an example of an average player who suddenly became unbeatable and I'll listen to you. Until then, I'll consider you as nothing more than someone with a product to sell, like a hundred others.
 
No apology necessary

justadub said:
Dr. Dave, I sincerely and profusely apologize for my part in this latest escalation of the drama, and the continued derailing of this thread. Once again, I will dig into your latest material as soon as I can, and let you know what helped me the most.

Stan, I apologize for offending you in whatever way that I have. As I pointed out to Robin when he and I started our exchange, I think that I was a fairly objective observer to all that went on. And I do not claim that I have any knowledge of pool beyond the uttermost basic principals, so I don't come at this from any perspective at all. Just an observer of the forum, and trying to take it all in, and see what can help me.

I have never spent any time with CTE, because I know that I won't be able to spend the consistent practice time that it would take to learn it properly. And that is the same reason I haven't attempted CJ's TOI, or any other more advanced techniques. (Note that I intentionally avoided the use of the dreaded S-word, "system".) I don't doubt that what you teach works for those who can take the time to learn it, and actively wish to do so. Same with TOI, and other things that folks use and teach. I hope to someday have the time to really study this game...

I have tried to support you on the forums through all this, if only in the spirit of fairness. I don't appreciate the vitriol that gets spewed here by many. And when I say by many, I mean by many on both sides of the argument. Too many here have too much to share to let this stuff get us all dragged down into petty bickering and name-calling.

Robin, I apologize for dragging you into the middle of all this. I should have known better, and I did tell you that this tomb should have stayed sealed. I agree, I think we were having a fine discussion, without harming anyone. We truly should have taken it into a different thread, and that is my fault. I'll own that one. I know better.

I hope folks have some fun and play some pool this weekend.
Click to expand...

Bruce,
No apology necessary. I did play an extended session of One Pocket Thursday night so Im going to rest this weekend. I think this debate although heated at times is fine. People seem to be getting this and that off of their chests so to speak. I think about anytime now were going to all sing Kum By Yah and hold hands......lol
 
TheThaiger said:
Firstly, I suspect Phil B was potting them off the lampshades from about 8 years old, and secondly, he's nowhere near the top cueist in the world. You make yourself look stupid with these examples. They may impress your followers but no one else. You lot even list shortstops on here as proof, which is absolutely laughable.

Find me an example of an average player who suddenly became unbeatable and I'll listen to you. Until then, I'll consider you as nothing more than someone with a product to sell, like a hundred others.
Click to expand...

I consider you nothing more than a cancer to this forum. When you are removed, AZ will be much better off.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I consider you nothing more than a cancer to this forum. When you are removed, AZ will be much better off.

Stan Shuffett
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Why? Because I have the minerals to tell the truth? Talking of minerals, why don't you register on thesnookerforum and see what they think of CTE?

You know why you'll NEVER do that, and so do I.
 
TheThaiger said:
Why? Because I have the minerals to tell the truth? Talking of minerals, why don't you register on thesnookerforum and see what they think of CTE?

You know why you'll NEVER do that, and so do I.
Click to expand...

My videos go to out to snooker players from time to time and no complaints.

You are silly if you think snooker players do not use a form of pivoting to center cue ball.

Basically you do not know what you don't know.

You speak from a lack of knowledge point of view.

There will be more and more snooker players that open their minds to CTE.

Just give it time.

Stan Shuffett
 
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Obviously all players pivot to centre cue ball. Its extremely awkward not to. Righties pivot in left to right and visa versa for lefties. Does not mean they're using a pivot based system. Ive tried CTE on a snooker table, and my eyes aren't up to the task on long shots. I wonder how players in their 30s, 40s and 50s would get on if I struggled?

I personally believe CTE isn't practical for snooker. Perhaps not the pro game, but amateurs have a hell of a lot of shots that they're stretching for, use the rest or play opposite handed. Selling CTE to snooker players, I wish you luck. You may have more luck selling oil to the Russians.
 
stan shuffett said:
My videos go to out to snooker players from time to time and no complaints.

You are silly if you think snooker players do not use a form of pivoting to center cue ball.

Basically you do not know what you don't know.

You speak from a lack of knowledge point of view.

There will be more and more snooker players that open their mine to CTE.

Just give it time.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Cool. Why don't you speed things up by registering on TSF and explaining to them what they don't know. I can provide a link if you want.
 
Thaiger,
I thought I was clear ( several times ).

If you are not contributing to the conversation you'd best stay out of it.
You've consistently been only an antagonist and a detractor from these topics, adding nothing but your opinion.

We know what your opinion is, so it is time to move on.

Further participation in ANY aiming thread where you are brought to my attention will probably result in a permanent ban.

Any questions?
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Thaiger,
I thought I was clear ( several times ).

If you are not contributing to the conversation you'd best stay out of it.
You've consistently been only an antagonist and a detractor from these topics, adding nothing but your opinion.

We know what your opinion is, so it is time to move on.

Further participation in ANY aiming thread where you are brought to my attention will probably result in a permanent ban.

Any questions?
Click to expand...

Plenty, but one will suffice for now. Can you tell me, specifically please, where I have broken the rules? I wish to learn from my mistakes.

I had hoped the days of 'modding by complaint' were long gone. That leads to cliques, and cliques lead to stagnation. The whole board is stagnant, in case you hadn't noticed. Maybe moderation should be by rules; transparent, open and fairly applied.
 
TheThaiger said:
Plenty, but one will suffice for now. Can you tell me, specifically please, where I have broken the rules? I wish to learn from my mistakes.

I had hoped the days of 'modding by complaint' were long gone. That leads to cliques, and cliques lead to stagnation. The whole board is stagnant, in case you hadn't noticed. Maybe moderation should be by rules; transparent, open and fairly applied.
Click to expand...


http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=25061

The rules are transparent.
"All posts will be kept civil."

The incessant baiting is anything but civil.
I've instructed before that you either add constructively to the conversation or stay out.


Addendum : just in case, you know?

Civil ; adhering to the norms of polite social intercourse; not deficient in common courtesy
 
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