How to do's

Everything I've explained in the fundamental threads can be used on any shot. Especially on the stance and alignment thread.

What strikes me is that you seem to be too dense to understand simple instructions and lack the ability to think on your own two feet about how to apply guidelines to a persons physical characteristics.
 
It's important to learn to change the position of the right hand

duckie said:
To help understand how the location of the balls on the table will control the stance needed because of the shooting position, I did this point to point of just the upper body.

The points are joints, where the bridge hand contacts the table, where cue contacts the bridge hand and where the cue contacts the grip hand.

In order to get the cue where yo need, requires being able to move all these points into a comfortable position in order to stroke straight.

The drawing is what I call the standard training stance. The type of stance shown in most pool books.

Now, considered the jacked up shooting over a ball I described earlier and the post pic.

Those points need to move around and they are not and can not be in the same position as the drawing showing the standard training stance.

From this, I came to realize a overlooked distance that can matter in stroke delivery. The distance between the bridge/cue point and the cue/grip distance. Look at Mosconi's stroke and he has a short distance hereas other are longer.

A short distance comes distance comes into play shooting jacked up in order to be in a comfortable position to stroke. Also this allows you to be a little higher with your head postion, which if you wear glasses, or your neck get tired and hurts helps.

Which leads to the location of the cue/grip point in relation to if it is past or before the shooting side hip joint when first getting into shooting position.

Jacked up, it can't be. So if it doesn't need to be shooting jacked up, does it need to be when not shooting jacked up?

In short, there is more to alignment than just what is normally discussed and greatly overlooked. Now added those that I didn't included......neck, hips, knees, ankles, foot, and even toes. Ever have to lock a knee against the table to shoot? Yet this shooting position is never discussed.
Click to expand...

It's important to learn to change the position of the right hand (if right-handed) to make the cue either longer or shorter. When shooing off the rail, close the object ball (especially performing touch shots, or shooting "jacked up" I recommend holding the cue at the very front of the cue's wrap (this is all covered in 'Billiards Inside Secrets').

This automatically adjusts the body angles to accommodate these particular shots. It also moves the right hip closer to the cue ball and pushes the shoulders closer together. Basically, you're creating a miniature version of the regular stroke. Golfers do the same thing by choking up on their grip on chip, sand, and pitch shots.
 
You look into things far too much to ever be a good player.

All that needs to be on the line of aim for maximum consistency is the elbow and grip on the shooting arm, the bridge V and vision centre. This is the same for jacked up shots, shots off the rail, the break, jump shots and so on. The feet are arranged not to the balls, but to the line of aim. This aids consistency by doing things in a similar fashion. The feet also help angle the hips in the same way each time.

I would love to see you play or even play some 14.1 with you. If I'm ever in your neck of the woods ill be sure to give you a shout. I'll be sure to point out how my how to do's make me do, and how your over analytical approach and contact patch make you don't.
 
duckie said:
To help understand how the location of the balls on the table will control the stance needed because of the shooting position, I did this point to point of just the upper body.

The points are joints, where the bridge hand contacts the table, where cue contacts the bridge hand and where the cue contacts the grip hand.

In order to get the cue where yo need, requires being able to move all these points into a comfortable position in order to stroke straight.

The drawing is what I call the standard training stance. The type of stance shown in most pool books.

Now, considered the jacked up shooting over a ball I described earlier and the post pic.

Those points need to move around and they are not and can not be in the same position as the drawing showing the standard training stance.

From this, I came to realize a overlooked distance that can matter in stroke delivery. The distance between the bridge/cue point and the cue/grip distance. Look at Mosconi's stroke and he has a short distance hereas other are longer.

A short distance comes distance comes into play shooting jacked up in order to be in a comfortable position to stroke. Also this allows you to be a little higher with your head postion, which if you wear glasses, or your neck get tired and hurts helps.

Which leads to the location of the cue/grip point in relation to if it is past or before the shooting side hip joint when first getting into shooting position.

Jacked up, it can't be. So if it doesn't need to be shooting jacked up, does it need to be when not shooting jacked up?

In short, there is more to alignment than just what is normally discussed and greatly overlooked. Now added those that I didn't included......neck, hips, knees, ankles, foot, and even toes. Ever have to lock a knee against the table to shoot? Yet this shooting position is never discussed.
Click to expand...


ARE YOU SERIOUSLY USING THAT PICTURE TO MAKE YOUR POINT (WHATEVER THAT MAY BE) ABOUT STANCE? If I had that shot on the 4, do you know what I would do? Not spend time worrying about the position of my body. No, I'd rather just keep it simple and shoot the shot opposite handed. Yeah, us good players can do that. Hacks like you, maybe not. In that case, just grab the bridge and make the easy shot.

Or how about this. Instead of getting all worked up over the position of your body when the CB is in awkward spots, maybe you could use that amazing CB control you like to brag about, and actually get the CB in ideal areas.

You should be banished from this and all other pool related forums to prevent the constant cancerous venom you spew in all of your posts.

I might not agree with a majority of the stuff CJ says here, but at least he can run more than 3 balls.
 
BeiberLvr said:
ARE YOU SERIOUSLY USING THAT PICTURE TO MAKE YOUR POINT (WHATEVER THAT MAY BE) ABOUT STANCE? If I had that shot on the 4, do you know what I would do? Not spend time worrying about the position of my body. No, I'd rather just keep it simple and shoot the shot opposite handed. Yeah, us good players can do that. Hacks like you, maybe not. In that case, just grab the bridge and make the easy shot.

I don't know of any regular in my poolhall who would have any sort of trouble with that shot. Not even sure what he was going for here? Put the entire rest of the stack between the camera and the cueball, then maybe someone could possibly screw it up. Not the good players though...

Or how about this. Instead of getting all worked up over the position of your body when the CB is in awkward spots, maybe you could use that amazing CB control you like to brag about, and actually get the CB in ideal areas.

Lol, not touching this one...

You should be banished from this and all other pool related forums to prevent the constant cancerous venom you spew in all of your posts.

Very harsh. Just use ignore...

I might not agree with a majority of the stuff CJ says here, but at least he can run more than 3 balls.
Click to expand...

Well, i should think so..

I don't really understand what Duckie was trying to get at? If someone can be fooled by simple means like he described, they do not know the game. Daring a good player to shoot is mostly a recipe for disaster. A good 9 or 10ball player will know how to shoot over balls, you know. And try to pull this on someone even remotely good at snooker or 14.1 and see what happens then... Even if he doesn't have a shot he'll have standard responses that have been honed within an inch of their lives..You'll end up in a LOT of trouble! If a player can be tricked as easily as he says, then what is the accomplishment in doing it? They'd have to be C or maybe even D players... Duckie desperately needs someone to run 60's and 80's on him a couple of times, then we'll see what he says...
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
Well, i should think so..

I don't really understand what Duckie was trying to get at? If someone can be fooled by simple means like he described, they do not know the game. Daring a good player to shoot is mostly a recipe for disaster. A good 9 or 10ball player will know how to shoot over balls, you know. And try to pull this on someone even remotely good at snooker or 14.1 and see what happens then... Even if he doesn't have a shot he'll have standard responses that have been honed within an inch of their lives..You'll end up in a LOT of trouble! If a player can be tricked as easily as he says, then what is the accomplishment in doing it? They'd have to be C or maybe even D players... Duckie desperately needs someone to run 60's and 80's on him a couple of times, then we'll see what he says...
Click to expand...

Directed at anyone else it would be harsh, but not Duckie. He's been making garbage posts like that one for years now.
 
duckie said:
When I read some of how to do this or that, I wonder if I'm playing the same game as others.

Consider having to shoot jacked up over a ball to stroke the CB. I mean the ball you are shooting over is close to the CB.

Oh and the ball position is in the center of the table.

Or when the CB is on the rail.

In others words, all theses so called how to do this or that do not take into consideration of all the possible shooting positions.

One thing I like to do with new 14.1 players is to bury the CB in the rack for a safety. It's just plain fun to watch them try to figure out what to do and then get into shooting position.

At times, I play a really short guy. When doing safety battles one of my goals is to leave the CB in the center of the table.......makes a uncomfortable shooting position for him.

The games they play.......mostly 9 ball......this don't happen nor do a lot of shooting positions that come up when using all 15 balls.

So next time you want to say use this pivot length or bridge length or foot position, consider doing the jacked up shot in the center of the table or better, set it up and see if you can use what you are explaining.
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Didn't you make a post a number of months ago about playing in a 14.1 league where you had to play a local guy getting 70 balls to 100?

Anyone who gets 70 going to 100 against anyone who isn't Thorsten Hohmann shouldn't be making "consider this" posts or knocking anyone who pivots balls in.
 
I think Duckie/Greg is referring to the rather strict 'how to instruction' that comes from many that really only work in a 'perfect' situation.

I do not think he is referring to any player of any substantial ability.

But... a beginner, novice, or intermediate player, could, & I repeat could, take the 'how to instruction' too literally & would try to do the 'how to' in what is basically an impossible situation to follow the 'how to' instructions from the instructor...& basically they will fail from that attempt.

Some say that 90% of shots can be shot from the 'standard' of the 'how to'.

I, Duckie, & I'm fairly sure that there are others that disagree with that percentage assessment.

I am probably the worst in the world at shooting with the opposite hand. But...I shoot rather well behind my back, one handed, or with an extension or even the bridge. The point is one has to find a way to shoot the odd shots. But...there are many not so odd shots that can not be shot by some of the normally prescribed stroke mechanics because they are dependant on a specific contrived set up.

I think the bottom line of Duckie's point is that one still has to invest in the time of HAMB to evolve into a more complete player.

Anyway, that's my take on what I think he is trying to point out.

Best 2 All,
Rick
 
duckie said:
To help understand how the location of the balls on the table will control the stance needed because of the shooting position, I did this point to point of just the upper body.

The points are joints, where the bridge hand contacts the table, where cue contacts the bridge hand and where the cue contacts the grip hand.

In order to get the cue where yo need, requires being able to move all these points into a comfortable position in order to stroke straight.

The drawing is what I call the standard training stance. The type of stance shown in most pool books.

Now, considered the jacked up shooting over a ball I described earlier and the post pic.

Those points need to move around and they are not and can not be in the same position as the drawing showing the standard training stance.

From this, I came to realize a overlooked distance that can matter in stroke delivery. The distance between the bridge/cue point and the cue/grip distance. Look at Mosconi's stroke and he has a short distance hereas other are longer.

A short distance comes distance comes into play shooting jacked up in order to be in a comfortable position to stroke. Also this allows you to be a little higher with your head postion, which if you wear glasses, or your neck get tired and hurts helps.

Which leads to the location of the cue/grip point in relation to if it is past or before the shooting side hip joint when first getting into shooting position.

Jacked up, it can't be. So if it doesn't need to be shooting jacked up, does it need to be when not shooting jacked up?

In short, there is more to alignment than just what is normally discussed and greatly overlooked. Now added those that I didn't included......neck, hips, knees, ankles, foot, and even toes. Ever have to lock a knee against the table to shoot? Yet this shooting position is never discussed.
Click to expand...

The mechanical bridge. It's usually hung on the bridge rack, on the side of the table.
Practice using the bridge and those long, hard to reach shots just become the norm.
.
 
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To further illustrate my point, here are a few pics of my practice table layout.
I just roll all 15 balls on the table and play them where they lay. SEldom will I move any.
 
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To further illustrate my point, here are a few pics of my practice table layout.
I just roll all 15 balls on the table and play them where they lay. Seldom will I move any.

Just a small sample to give a idea how ball position on the table controls the shooting position that can be used and therefore needs
to be taken into consideration in how to's. Seldom is asked about where the balls are position in the table before giving a how to.
 
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I think people seldom ask because they assume advice dispensed is for a free and clear, easy-to-reach cue ball that has no ball or rail nearby interfering with a "normal" stance... we could also ask everyone if in addition to the above, they play in a home poolroom with a wall nearby a rail, too, but... usually people say if their query/discussion involves an interfering ball (or wall) etc.

I know that's why I seldom ask, but yes, we should be careful to define terms if their are long bridges or mechanical bridges, etc. in the mix.
 
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