How to match up??

nyjoe14.1

nyjoe14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I seem to have trouble making a game. More often than not I take a bad game because I want to play. For those of you that can clock someone and say he’s “a ball and a half better than the other guy” how do you come to that realization? I know people that seem to never make a bad game. It just amazes me how they can instantly tell how much weight they need or can give.

Im not totally helpless in this department but am definitely lacking, so any advice on matching up or gauging and then comparing someone’s speed to my own would be great.

Thanks
 
If someone offers you weight, feel confident that they could give you more. If you offer someone weight, back off one jump from what you could really give them... That generally seems to be the way it goes down. Just my opinion, though...
 
If your matching up with a better player ask for more than you think you'll need. If he gives it and you beat him easy you can always adjust.:eek: If your not comfortable with what he's willing to give...walk away. He might want to play just as bad as you and rethink what he's willing to give. Johnnyt

PS. I won't say that I never made a bad game. 100 to 50 in 14.1 for $100 a game with Steve Cook comes to mind. Getting the wild 8 with a lot of pro players. All of them with me not liking it.
 
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It all depends on what your main goal is. A lot of people just like matching up to improve their game and to have something on the line (more pressure). Some however are only concerned about making money above all else. It is their livelihood, and will most likely not enter into a situation where they don't have the "nuts" so to speak.

If you feel that you are merely trying to improve your game, and to season your skills with gambling (which is a decent idea IMO), you should watch the other guy (while he doesn't notice if possible) to see what his strengths/weaknesses are and to gauge his shotmaking ability compared to that of your own. If you have determined that he has comparable skill to that of your own or better, proposition him for a game (and ask for weight if you determined that you'll need it). Sometimes players aren't good at judging other's skills and matching up. It takes a lot of experience and a LOT OF LOSING YOUR HARD_EARNED MONEY to acquire the skills necessary to always have the "nuts."

Edit: One last thing, if your goal is to get better when matching up (not to be a hustler), don't play weaker players with which you'll have to go "on the lemon" to get them to play. This is one way to screw up your real game, and you'll find it hard to play at your highest speed consistently if you are used to dumping games and playing on the lemon. If anything, be honest with your skill level and offer weight accordingly. This will give you more confidence in your game and give you a reason to play at your highest speed.
 
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Here's how I do it. First, you should figure out who you need weight from and who you need to give weight to. That's the easy part. Now if you can run 6 or more balls on a very regular basis (e.g. 90% of the time), you don't want to accept balls. What good is the 7 ball when you can just as easily make it to the 9 and out? You want games. Now you have to figure out how much more often they beat you than you beating them. If you beat him 1 out of 3 games then 2 games in a race to 7 is a pretty even spot. If the statistics hold, you will win 4 or 5 games in a race to 7, 5 or 6 in a race to 9. Assuming you can run 6 or more balls, give the bangers the world, last 3, wild 7, call 6. If he can't run 3 balls, you've got a locked game. I'm always weary about giving people multiple wild balls. The wild 7 out gives him 3 money balls which can be made at any point. And the bangers will definitely be firing at the game balls. I'm not a big fan of odds either. Getting 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 doesn't do me any good if I can't win a set. But I will take them if we play game by game. 1.5 to 1 or 2 to 1 playing 10 a game will take you a long way, provided you can beat the guy every once in a while. There are some people who are just so bad they can't win no matter what the spot. Give them whatever they want (don't get carried away, fight to keep it close to even). At the same time, don't play the guys you can't beat. Wait until you get to their level before you even mess around with these guys.
 
Consider it like a poker machine. By all means don't look to ever see that money again. Then if you win some money its not expected. And just don't bet more than you are comfortable giving away.
 
nyjoe14.1

nyjoe14.1 - I've heard from a very reliable source that your game has really gone down as of late. I'll play you for however much you want friday night at snooker's. I have a rather affluent backer, so money is not an object. Let me know what we're doing. I'm looking foward to it.
 
crazybob107 said:
nyjoe14.1 - I've heard from a very reliable source that your game has really gone down as of late. I'll play you for however much you want friday night at snooker's. I have a rather affluent backer, so money is not an object. Let me know what we're doing. I'm looking foward to it.
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OH MAN, SOUNDS LIKE YOU GOT ACTION JOE!!!!!!!!!! ​
 
The secret to matching up gets down to a couple of things.

First, don't take a game unless deep down inside you feel you can win it. Confidence plays a huge factor in matching up.

Second, PATIENCE! Most players are gamblers and just want to be in action. Learn to wait them out and then go back to my first suggestion.

Worked wonders for me over the years.
 
Crazy Boooooob

crazybob107 said:
nyjoe14.1 - I've heard from a very reliable source that your game has really gone down as of late. I'll play you for however much you want friday night at snooker's. I have a rather affluent backer, so money is not an object. Let me know what we're doing. I'm looking foward to it.
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I should have guessed you would have some smart a*ss comment.:rolleyes:

I tell ya what well do, ill go rob a bank and you can tell your “affluent backer” that he needs to find a faster horse. But if he still wants to put you in the box we can do what ever, but there must be a comma in the price tag.:cool:

Some one else mentioned that you can give the world to a player that can’t run more than 2-3 balls and as we all know you can’t beat the 4 ball ghost so ill just give you the orange crush (im laughing so hard I can barley type).:D :D

P.S.
tell your source that im gonna kick his a*ss tomorrow!!!:eek:
 
Funny you should mention this lol

Last night was a prime example of me not matching up well against someone.

I matched up against a girl i know, and for a while she's been saying how, I am over confident thinking i can beat her so easily. Plus she's always saying how she wont play me because in a tournament i let her win, which i did.

So last nite we finally matched up and I was giving her the 7ball and the breaks + 1 game. First set ends me losing 5-2. Next set I am up 4-1 and lose. I win the next set 5-2, and after that set, when I am up 4-1 she gives me the whole if you win this next set, you need to give more weight. And for some reason i ended up losing that set too.

So I want to change up the weight, so i can atleast break. Well I say why not just play with the last 2? and she laughs and wants the 7/8. We settle on the call 7, wild 8, no games on the wire.

Well i end up loosing the next two sets too and badly like 5-2, 5-1.

I will say alot of her wins, she was making the 7ball or the 8ball on the break, even though the balls were set up behind the 1ball.

I realized i was better off giving her the 7 + the breaks. But now when i want to play her now, i can make a legit reason for only giving her the 8ball, or last 3. Or something like a wild ball, but only after the break.

But yea When i thought i was getting a better deal with her not breaking, in turn it was better when she was breaking. Because she never did break and run pass the 6ball.
 
StormHotRod300 said:
Funny you should mention this lol

Last night was a prime example of me not matching up well against someone.

I matched up against a girl i know, and for a while she's been saying how, I am over confident thinking i can beat her so easily. Plus she's always saying how she wont play me because in a tournament i let her win, which i did.

So last nite we finally matched up and I was giving her the 7ball and the breaks + 1 game. First set ends me losing 5-2. Next set I am up 4-1 and lose. I win the next set 5-2, and after that set, when I am up 4-1 she gives me the whole if you win this next set, you need to give more weight. And for some reason i ended up losing that set too.

So I want to change up the weight, so i can atleast break. Well I say why not just play with the last 2? and she laughs and wants the 7/8. We settle on the call 7, wild 8, no games on the wire.

Well i end up loosing the next two sets too and badly like 5-2, 5-1.

I will say alot of her wins, she was making the 7ball or the 8ball on the break, even though the balls were set up behind the 1ball.

I realized i was better off giving her the 7 + the breaks. But now when i want to play her now, i can make a legit reason for only giving her the 8ball, or last 3. Or something like a wild ball, but only after the break.

But yea When i thought i was getting a better deal with her not breaking, in turn it was better when she was breaking. Because she never did break and run pass the 6ball.
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Damn, she beat you up. Now why aren't there any girls that play pool around here??? I'd love action with the girls.
 
I was a degenerate gambler. I quit many years ago.

When I play for $ now I make the game that the only way I can lose is if I play worse than I can imagine and my opponent plays better than he's capable of.

I don't get much action.....
 
FWIW, my personal opinion on matching up is this:

NEVER match up based mostly on your opponent's skill. ALWAYS start negotiating based on your own skill level. By this I mean, start negotiations on what you would need to TOTALLY control a set.

When I was putting in a bit more practice, and started playing decently, but not really well, a strong local shortstop in the Seattle area named Tim Tweedel tried to give me the wild 5 and the breaks.

I had a mortal lock at that game.. Why? For the following reasons..

1. The tables had pretty big pockets. I made a ball on the break a LOT.

2. I can run 5 balls consistently.. :D

3. I worked a lot on "kicking safe" back in those days. I was pretty good at it.

These three things made it almost impossible for my opponent to win, no matter who he was. I ran through the five off the break a good percentage of the time. When I didn't make a ball, if he didn't have a shot to the pocket with the 1, he wasn't a lock to win the game even if he played a good safe, because I kicked safe off multiple rails very well.

So, even though I did not actually have to ASK for the 5 and the breaks, it was still a lock game for me. About 4 months later, after I got some serious practice time, he would not have been able to win by giving more than the call 8 and the breaks.

Matching up is much more a factor of what you need to win, than how good your opponent plays. You might think it matters what skill level player you play against, but if you are aware of what handicap you need to beat the ghost, then you know what you need to beat any player short of pro level.

I plan on matching up with some of Florida's finest when I get back from Iraq, after about three months of practice. By the time I have three months of practice under my belt, I will know EXACTLY what I need if I have the breaks, to completely control a set.

IMO, the reason that lower level players match up so truly badly against pros, is because the amateurs have no concept of consistently controlling the whole set.

Russ
 
Drew,

Yes I when i switched up the game, i got my azz handed too me.

If i would have stuck with the original spot, I think it would have been alot closer. And yes there is a few girls in my area who can play some! But the only problem is, they only play on 7ft tables.

Only a few guys in my area will play on 9ft tables, expecially against me, even though i am not great by any means on a 9ft table, I know how to play on one.

Most people who give me a spot on a 7ft table, i can play even or give them a spot on a 9ft table. GO FIGURE.
 
Rule of Thumb

I probably shouldn't be saying this, but all Real good player, road players, and pros keep a ball and a half for themselves.

So, if a road player offers you the 7 out, he can really give you the 6 out, and still be a half a ball better. That doesn't hold true all the time, but is a good general rule to go by.

The better player evaluates your game, potting, shape, jumping, kicking, break, form, and logic, and takes notes on the 'errors' you make consistently or weaknesses you have, then he knows what he can do in giving you a spot.
 
Snapshot9 said:
I probably shouldn't be saying this, but all Real good player, road players, and pros keep a ball and a half for themselves.

So, if a road player offers you the 7 out, he can really give you the 6 out, and still be a half a ball better. That doesn't hold true all the time, but is a good general rule to go by.

The better player evaluates your game, potting, shape, jumping, kicking, break, form, and logic, and takes notes on the 'errors' you make consistently or weaknesses you have, then he knows what he can do in giving you a spot.
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Sounds like you know some insider information...Teach me.
 
Well ....

Drew said:
Sounds like you know some insider information...Teach me.
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Yeah, I do because I have played 45 years, have gambled since day 1, whether for a $1 a game when a teenager to thousands of dollars a set
later on. Everyone has to experience for themselves. No one offered to teach me a damn thing, I had to learn on my own by using my brain, just like I had to learn to play well.

I would suggest making friends with one of the best players in your local area, and then picking his brain for tips and tricks. Sometimes these players will take a newbie under their wing if they feel they show promise as a player, but they do not give away matching up or gambling secrets away to just anyone that wants to know, usually just to an upcoming player they want to help. And while you are listening, you keep your mouth shut and just listen, ask questions, but don't overstep boundaries of the player.

There are certain protocols in Pool, mostly from the old days, but they still prevail among the older players today. It's called 'learning the ropes' and you will be 'waxiing on and off' until you are told different.
 
Snapshot9 said:
I probably shouldn't be saying this, but all Real good player, road players, and pros keep a ball and a half for themselves.

So, if a road player offers you the 7 out, he can really give you the 6 out, and still be a half a ball better. That doesn't hold true all the time, but is a good general rule to go by.

The better player evaluates your game, potting, shape, jumping, kicking, break, form, and logic, and takes notes on the 'errors' you make consistently or weaknesses you have, then he knows what he can do in giving you a spot.
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Interestingly enough this illiterates my problem perfectly.

How can they tell by watching someone that the 7 and the last 2 is a lock, but the 7 out is a looser?
 
nyjoe14.1 said:
Interestingly enough this illiterates my problem perfectly.

How can they tell by watching someone that the 7 and the last 2 is a lock, but the 7 out is a looser?
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It will never be that close. If they can give you the 7 and the last two, they could give you the 7 & out, too. Those two are comparable enough that one of them will not be a lock and the other be a looser, it's more like one is a lock and the other might be fair; if you're lucky.
 
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