How To Play This Shot?

DrCue'sProtege said:
ya know, i got to thinking about all of the responses that said Low Left. so i set this shot up, hit it low left, and scratched in the side pocket. if you are going to hit this low left, you really need to give it some juice to get it past the side pocket. and if you do, then you are creating a more difficult shot on the 8-Ball than what you need to do.

in other words, a softer "Little low left" hit will get you to scratch. the harder low left shot will get you a much harder shot on the 8-Ball you dont want. the plain half tip of "Left" shot (9 o'clock) will bring it over to the long rail and you shouldnt have to worry about the scratch.

this shot requires some touch, but now i dont think there is any way i would play this low left. i think this is just one of those shots that is harder and is more fraught with danger than what most people realize.

DCP

p.s. hope everybody realizes the 7-Ball is about one ball width off the rail in the original diagram.........
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I think the problem here is your stroke. I believe a good player will do as doomcue and vip and I said every time. But I can see an average player scratching. It's all in the stroke. You should have zero problem with the scratch if you are stroking it correctly. I'd say you are hitting low left, but because you aren't stroking it good, you aren't getting the proper action on the cueball. You aren't getting much spin on the cueball. Are you accelerating as you come thru the cueball? It's critical on this shot. The scratch is about the result of hitting at 9:00, or real close to it. Are you sure that you are hitting the cueball where you want to?
 
ziskan1013 said:
if it were me, i'd play it so that i'd have a decent bank on the 8 and set myself up for a relatively easy 9ball shot. if not, then i'd put left on it and try and get to A.
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Better go with your 2nd option. The first is only undertaken when you are mad at your money!
 
neils right

This is a shot that i used to have trouble with also. Neil is right if you dont put enough action on the cue it will produce the results you explained. Try snapping your wrist aliitle more as to make sure all your spin is still working for you when you contact the object ball.

dont hit it harder, speed up the spin by snapping your wrist through the cue.
 
First of all...sometimes these table drawings are not the exact position the poster means...

It looks to me a simple shot...slide the 7-ball into the corner pocket with a little running english...the cue ball will come over between the 8-ball and the side pocket...for an easy shot on the 8-ball and an easy out.

The danger is in the possible scratch in the side pocket or getting too close to the 8-ball...

You've got almost two diamonds to work with and that should be enough to avoid both those problems...it's not a tough shot...especially if you've been playing on that table for a while...and maybe you have enough touch to not need to come back to the side rail.

When we start talking about low left and bringing the cue ball back to below the side pocket...we bring in a few challenges...

We have to hit the 7-ball harder...accounting for cue ball curve and throw...to the corner pocket, increasing the chance of a buckle or outright miss...

It seems to me we still have to bring the cue ball back to the side rail and bounce off - and we now still have the chance of a scratch - I don't see how in this diagram that we can bring the cue ball back past the side pocket without hitting the side rail. That imo would take more touch than would be needed to make the simple shot I propose.

If we hit it just a tad too hard we might find the cue ball somewhere near the foot spot...that's not a real easy shot on the 8-ball from there. Heck we might even hit it so bad that the cue ball rests near the 9-ball...

My point here basically is that if you don't think you can make the 7-ball the easiest way possible and avoid a scratch or kiss of the 8-ball...and leave a very easy 8-ball...then I might bet against you making that fairly long 8-ball shot.

Peace baby...

Mike
 
DoomCue said:
I'm curious about your thought process here. Why do you think it takes more confidence to play shape closer to the 8?

This is a very common pattern shot in 9-ball (going back and forth when object balls are on opposite side rails). I'd shoot this shot the same way I posted earlier 1000 out of 1000 times.

There are a few different reasons I wouldn't attempt to stay on the close side of 8. First, a mistake might lead to a scratch. Second, it's a lot easier to get a bad angle on the 8 when you're closer to it. Third, you might end up ON the 8. I'm not taking those chances, especially in a case like this which involves a fairly routine layout.

I firmly believe that good pool is about weighing percentages successfully and choosing properly. I think the percentages are heavily in favor of low left to the other side of the side pocket. In fact, I can't think of a single negative thing playing the shot that way.

BTW, if you're playing low left and you're ending up on the right side of the side pocket in DCP's diagram, you're not playing low left.

-djb
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Well I'd get it my way 5000 times out of 5000. Do the less you can with the cueball. For me, it's an easy one.
 
Mike_Mason said:
First of all...sometimes these table drawings are not the exact position the poster means...

It looks to me a simple shot...slide the 7-ball into the corner pocket with a little running english...the cue ball will come over between the 8-ball and the side pocket...for an easy shot on the 8-ball and an easy out.

The danger is in the possible scratch in the side pocket or getting too close to the 8-ball...

You've got almost two diamonds to work with and that should be enough to avoid both those problems...it's not a tough shot...especially if you've been playing on that table for a while...and maybe you have enough touch to not need to come back to the side rail.

When we start talking about low left and bringing the cue ball back to below the side pocket...we bring in a few challenges...

We have to hit the 7-ball harder...accounting for cue ball curve and throw...to the corner pocket, increasing the chance of a buckle or outright miss...

It seems to me we still have to bring the cue ball back to the side rail and bounce off - and we now still have the chance of a scratch - I don't see how in this diagram that we can bring the cue ball back past the side pocket without hitting the side rail. That imo would take more touch than would be needed to make the simple shot I propose.

If we hit it just a tad too hard we might find the cue ball somewhere near the foot spot...that's not a real easy shot on the 8-ball from there. Heck we might even hit it so bad that the cue ball rests near the 9-ball...

My point here basically is that if you don't think you can make the 7-ball the easiest way possible and avoid a scratch or kiss of the 8-ball...and leave a very easy 8-ball...then I might bet against you making that fairly long 8-ball shot.

Peace baby...

Mike
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Mike you make a lot of sense. This is pretty much what I was trying to say on an earlier response but you said it al lot better. Also a big advantage this way is that the seven has a little wiggle room because of pocket speed.
 
bigdaddygerald said:
This is a shot that i used to have trouble with also. Neil is right if you dont put enough action on the cue it will produce the results you explained. Try snapping your wrist aliitle more as to make sure all your spin is still working for you when you contact the object ball.

dont hit it harder, speed up the spin by snapping your wrist through the cue.
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Forget about "snapping the wrist" - just let the wrist do what it's supposed to do to keep the cue level.

What is "snapping the wrist" and how does it add spin?

-djb <-- official myth destroyer
 
DCP, here's how to setup a game of Mississipi Nine Ball. The cue ball's starting position should be approximately anywhere within the boxed area. After you hit the one, run 'em out. This is a very simple drill, but it teaches ways to get in to the middle of the table and to maintain an angle when necessary.

table-175-1.gif


-djb
 
DoomCue said:
DCP, here's how to setup a game of Mississipi Nine Ball. The cue ball's starting position should be approximately anywhere within the boxed area. After you hit the one, run 'em out. This is a very simple drill, but it teaches ways to get in to the middle of the table and to maintain an angle when necessary.

table-175-1.gif


-djb
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Now there is something I've never seen before. So simple, yet I cannot wait to set it up tomorrow and start running all over it. Thanks a ton DoomCue for sharing this with us.
 
DoomCue said:
DCP, here's how to setup a game of Mississipi Nine Ball. The cue ball's starting position should be approximately anywhere within the boxed area. After you hit the one, run 'em out. This is a very simple drill, but it teaches ways to get in to the middle of the table and to maintain an angle when necessary.

table-175-1.gif


-djb
Click to expand...

nice one here, doom, thanks!
i've seen this before, but forgot about it, might give it some PT tonight. also never heard of it called Mississippi Nine Ball?

DCP
 
DoomCue said:
Forget about "snapping the wrist" - just let the wrist do what it's supposed to do to keep the cue level.

What is "snapping the wrist" and how does it add spin?

-djb <-- official myth destroyer
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well when hitting extreme english of any kind you can impart more spin on the cue by snapping your wrist when your stroking through the ball. it causes the cue to slide with out alot of pace on the cue. if you just load up on the speed, you dont let the english work when your cue hits the rail.
 
I hit this shot softly with 9:00 tip placement to come back above the 8. toward the side pocket, but without enough speed to put the side-pocket scratch into play. I learned to play it this way because hitting firmer, I ALWAYS scratch cross-side.

ME: I'll juice it up with low-left to make totally sure I get above the side pocket.
CB: Scratch, b****!
ME: Okay, I'll just use a little draw with no left to make sure I come below the side pocket.
CB: S*** no, scratch!!!
ME: Okay, I'll use more left, less draw.
CB: SCRATCH AGAIN!
ME: Okay, I'll just break down my cue and go home when this shot comes up.
CB: I don't know how, but you'll still scratch cross-side.
ME: (shoots self in face).

After several of these experiences, I learned the only way I keep the ball out of that pocket is by not giving it the legs to make it there.

-Andrew
 
bigdaddygerald said:
well when hitting extreme english of any kind you can impart more spin on the cue by snapping your wrist when your stroking through the ball. it causes the cue to slide with out alot of pace on the cue. if you just load up on the speed, you dont let the english work when your cue hits the rail.
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Oh, so you only do it on extreme english shots.... Why are you recommending it to DCP for this shot? This is not a tough shot, nor does it require extreme english.

Can you explain what "snapping your wrist" means? You've described its effect - I'd like to know how you "snap" your wrist. Are you bending it back, forward, sideways? Why is this only for extreme english shots? If it works for those shots, why not do it all the time? Is it not possible to get the same amount of spin without "snapping your wrist?" Does it work with center ball? Will Sanjaya get a recording contract?

I've heard lots of people over the years mention "snapping the wrist" in pool halls - I've yet to see it successfully described or demonstrated. Usually, those same people are the ones who recommend "follow through" on a draw shot. Follow through is the result of the stroke after contact - as a component of the stroke, it doesn't mean much other than the shooter didn't waste energy trying to stop the cue. I think the "snapping the wrist" myth is in the same category - people who think they're "snapping the wrist" are really just hitting the shot the way they're supposed to, which is with a relaxed wrist. No tension in the wrist is a good thing, but it doesn't mean that it's something special - it should be done on every shot.

-djb
 
The most important thing, after making the ball is insuring that the cue ball isn't hit hard enough to go to the side pocket. It's impossible to scratch if you don't hit the cue ball hard enough to get to the side pocket.

Going for the fat part of the position zone is obvious. Just don't hit it hard enough to scratch.
 
It can be shot with left only or low left. The obvious over looked problem is where you hit the o/b. A scratch is possible either way. To fat with left only or to thin with low left will have the cue ball headed towards the side. If you make the ball center pocket, no problem either way.

You choose which way based on your confidence to execute. Me, I'd shoot it with left only in this case since the 7 is a only a balls width off the rail. If there was less angle or the 7 a bit farther from the rail then I'd use low left.

That missippi 9 ball drill posted by DC is an excellent drill to find you strengths and weakness at various angles.

Rod
 
DoomCue said:
Oh, so you only do it on extreme english shots.... Why are you recommending it to DCP for this shot? This is not a tough shot, nor does it require extreme english.

Can you explain what "snapping your wrist" means? You've described its effect - I'd like to know how you "snap" your wrist. Are you bending it back, forward, sideways? Why is this only for extreme english shots? If it works for those shots, why not do it all the time? Is it not possible to get the same amount of spin without "snapping your wrist?" Does it work with center ball? Will Sanjaya get a recording contract?

I've heard lots of people over the years mention "snapping the wrist" in pool halls - I've yet to see it successfully described or demonstrated. Usually, those same people are the ones who recommend "follow through" on a draw shot. Follow through is the result of the stroke after contact - as a component of the stroke, it doesn't mean much other than the shooter didn't waste energy trying to stop the cue. I think the "snapping the wrist" myth is in the same category - people who think they're "snapping the wrist" are really just hitting the shot the way they're supposed to, which is with a relaxed wrist. No tension in the wrist is a good thing, but it doesn't mean that it's something special - it should be done on every shot.

-djb
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ok im not a pro player nor an instructor so ill try to explain. your stroke has at least 2 hinge points ...the elbow and the wrist...some like to use the shoulder as well, i do not. when the wrist is relazed as you put it you have the ability to accelerate through the cue ball stopping motion at the elbow and allowing you wrist to complete the shot. it looks and feels as though your wrist snapped.

this shot is not difficult your right however it used to cause me problems with cue ball control .

as far as a contract goes, with or without he sucks.

if you dont agree with my explination im sorry we will have to agree to disagree.
 
ziskan1013 said:
if it were me, i'd play it so that i'd have a decent bank on the 8 and set myself up for a relatively easy 9ball shot. if not, then i'd put left on it and try and get to A.
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Let me know when you are in the Portland area. Maybe we can match up for a couple dimes.:D
 
I am going to suggest you try hitting it at about 10:00, a little above center with left hand spin, using a level cue at pocket speed. Make sure you deliver a smooth stroke where you do not decelerate through the shot. This will ensure that the cue ball will not get high enough to scratch in the side pocket even if you hit it a little too firm. Also, hitting it a little above center typically reduces any squirt you may normally get, at the same time giving you the best speed for ball pocketing.

When you hit this shot at 9:00 or low left, it becomes critical that you hit it the proper speed and stroke or the scratch may become a possibility. They both work great & I may use both options myself, but depending on your playing speed & your consistancy in stroke speed control, what I outlined above may be helpful. Even if you hit it alittle softly, you will be close enough to the 8 ball that the cut would still be fairly easy & you can go back & forth with the cue ball for shape.

Just another option to play with. I always believe there is never only one right way to play a shot so you should experiment & find out what's best for you in any situation.

Dave
 
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