How to remove and re-install butt cap

TwoRailDave

TwoRailDave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a friend who insists on personally modifying his Bill McDaniel cue. He wants to bore out some of the ebony butt with a long drill press to make it a couple ounces lighter. The cue currently weighs 22 oz. and has one solid plain piece of ebony for a butt with a standard-sized delrin or delrin-like butt cap. Unfortunately I do not have pictures of the cue but could get some in a few days when I see him next if needed. His question was how best to go about removing the butt cap and re-installing it. I'm sure he would like to keep the original McDaniel butt cap with the logo. Is it threaded on? I told him that modifying the cue would affect the value and that he should take it to a cuemaker to do the work. He's old school and insists on doing everything himself. He's not concerned about devaluing the cue as he figures to have it until he dies. He just wants to make it lighter for playing purposes. I'm not sure if he has access to a lathe. Any help would be very appreciated.
 
This needs to be done on a lathe by someone that knows what they're doing.
There is considerable risk to the cue otherwise.
This is definitely NOT DIY.
I'll need to see pics before I comment further.

KJ
 
To take it a step further, and I'm sure KJ was thinking it but wouldn't say it, this is a process that should not be done at all to that cue. It will destroy the balance, as well as value, and if the owner can play at all he will dislike the feel so much he'll likely change his mind about never getting rid of it. You can't just remove 2 ounces from the butt. If he insists on making it 20 ounces he should bite the bullet and send the cue to Bill and have it cored and refinished. Then he will truly have a keeper.
 
Just because the outside is ebony the inside is probably maple.

Don't know how Bill put the cue together but it should have a weight bolt in the end that holds the bumper and butt cap in place. You should be able to remove some weight by changing weight bolt. I also think the weight bolt holds the butt cap in place with the help of glue.

Also what size drill is he going to use to drill out 2 oz.? The problem is that with the core being maple you can use a 1/2 inch bit and drill out for 10 inches and still not even take an ounce out.

Without any weight bolts in there taking 2 ounces out of that cue is very hard to do.
 
I would imagine pretty much any cuemaker would be horrified to hear about something like that being done to one of their cues.
 
OH MY.......PLEASE DO NOT

Btw, I have never seen a "solid ebony" McDaniel butt....he cored them all with maple, every one I have ever encountered. If it has a threaded rubber stem bumper, twist if off and there might be a long piece of threaded 3/8-16 rod that someone put in there to weight it up. It might be way up in there, because Bill usually threaded them back into the handle area so that weigh bolts could be moved around to change the balance point.

Need to get some pics and post them here. If it's truly white Delrin butt cap, then it's an old one. If he doesn't like the cue, advise him to sell it...do not screw with it. They are quite desirable (esp his old cues)....
 
Brickcues said:
Just because the outside is ebony the inside is probably maple.

Don't know how Bill put the cue together but it should have a weight bolt in the end that holds the bumper and butt cap in place. You should be able to remove some weight by changing weight bolt. I also think the weight bolt holds the butt cap in place with the help of glue.

Also what size drill is he going to use to drill out 2 oz.? The problem is that with the core being maple you can use a 1/2 inch bit and drill out for 10 inches and still not even take an ounce out.

Without any weight bolts in there taking 2 ounces out of that cue is very hard to do.
Click to expand...

I agree, but he says it's solid ebony,,,,,,,, I doubt it though.
 
If it has a weight bolt change it to aluminum if it has a steel joint change it to ivory. If it has a metal pin change it to g10 There's a couple weight loss ideas.
 
jayman said:
If it has a weight bolt change it to aluminum if it has a steel joint change it to ivory. If it has a metal pin change it to g10 There's a couple weight loss ideas.
Click to expand...

Costly weight loss don't you think? Yes it could be done but not cheaply.
 
Brickcues said:
Costly weight loss don't you think? Yes it could be done but not cheaply.
Click to expand...

Probably not compared to value of a nice McDaniel cue. I wouldn't do it on a cheap cue. The Ivory joint would be the largest investment and would really be a nice upgrade as well as a huge weight saver.
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I more or less expected the sentiments of many of you and feel similarly myself. My friend Dan is very adamant on doing this work himself. He's always done everything himself and gets satisfaction from doing it. I should also mention that he has a machinist background and used to make furniture as well. I myself have not seen under the bumper as we did not have an allen wrench with us so I cannot say whether the cue was cored. It does make sense though as a solid piece of ebony would probably be even heavier. I thought Dan told me it was solid and that there was no cavity inside -only a very small female hole to accept the small allen bolt. Obviously he would take the weight bolt out if there was one in there. That is not an option. Replacing the stainless sleeve with ivory is not going to reduce very much weight at all. I'd appreciate it if only experienced cue makers and or cuesmiths would comment. I suppose my advice to him at this point would probably be to drill through the bottom of the butt cap and replace the current style bumper with a plug style one. I'll try and upload some pics of the cue with the butt cap removed and thanks for the responses.
 
TwoRailDave said:
Thanks for the responses guys. I more or less expected the sentiments of many of you and feel similarly myself. My friend Dan is very adamant on doing this work himself. He's always done everything himself and gets satisfaction from doing it. I should also mention that he has a machinist background and used to make furniture as well. I myself have not seen under the bumper as we did not have an allen wrench with us so I cannot say whether the cue was cored. It does make sense though as a solid piece of ebony would probably be even heavier. I thought Dan told me it was solid and that there was no cavity inside -only a very small female hole to accept the small allen bolt. Obviously he would take the weight bolt out if there was one in there. That is not an option. Replacing the stainless sleeve with ivory is not going to reduce very much weight at all. I'd appreciate it if only experienced cue makers and or cuesmiths would comment. I suppose my advice to him at this point would probably be to drill through the bottom of the butt cap and replace the current style bumper with a plug style one. I'll try and upload some pics of the cue with the butt cap removed and thanks for the responses.
Click to expand...

Tell him to get the cue x-rayed before proceeding .
 
If the bumper is retained with an 'allen screw' then that screw is screwing into a wght. blt.
Allen screws have machine thrds, not wood thrds. Find the correct 'allen' wrench.
Once the bumber is removed you will be able to confirm a wght. blt.
Wght. adjustment can be had via the wght. blt.
Replace the bolt with a lighter/shorter one.
DO NOT use this cue without a wght. blt installed.
The wght. blt in this cue serves two purposes.
Basically, it keeps the delrin butt-cap secured and provides provision for bumper attachment.
If the owner wants to attempt this on his own, he does so at his own peril.

KJ
 
TwoRailDave said:
Thanks for the responses guys. I more or less expected the sentiments of many of you and feel similarly myself. My friend Dan is very adamant on doing this work himself. He's always done everything himself and gets satisfaction from doing it. I should also mention that he has a machinist background and used to make furniture as well. I myself have not seen under the bumper as we did not have an allen wrench with us so I cannot say whether the cue was cored. It does make sense though as a solid piece of ebony would probably be even heavier. I thought Dan told me it was solid and that there was no cavity inside -only a very small female hole to accept the small allen bolt. Obviously he would take the weight bolt out if there was one in there. That is not an option. Replacing the stainless sleeve with ivory is not going to reduce very much weight at all. I'd appreciate it if only experienced cue makers and or cuesmiths would comment. I suppose my advice to him at this point would probably be to drill through the bottom of the butt cap and replace the current style bumper with a plug style one. I'll try and upload some pics of the cue with the butt cap removed and thanks for the responses.
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Actually, 22 oz is about right for a solid Ebony cue as you have described. I have
made several of them.

Adamant eh - has anyone accused him of being hard headed lately?

Some factoids for consideration:

Good call on the joint - an unturned SS joint only weighs less than 1 oz,
some as little as 1/2 oz.

To do this task anywhere approaching the right way will require a solid
gun drilling setup. Even if you can bore a straight hole, the weight reduction
will be relatively small. A 3/4 ID hole all the way to the A-joint would still
leave a 'heavy' cue.

I can only recommend first acquiring a "junk" cue butt and trying to do the job
on it. Or just take a skill saw and cut it into a few pieces and save some time.

Dale
 
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TwoRailDave said:
Thanks for the responses guys. I more or less expected the sentiments of many of you and feel similarly myself. My friend Dan is very adamant on doing this work himself. He's always done everything himself and gets satisfaction from doing it. I should also mention that he has a machinist background and used to make furniture as well. I myself have not seen under the bumper as we did not have an allen wrench with us so I cannot say whether the cue was cored. It does make sense though as a solid piece of ebony would probably be even heavier. I thought Dan told me it was solid and that there was no cavity inside -only a very small female hole to accept the small allen bolt. Obviously he would take the weight bolt out if there was one in there. That is not an option. Replacing the stainless sleeve with ivory is not going to reduce very much weight at all. I'd appreciate it if only experienced cue makers and or cuesmiths would comment. I suppose my advice to him at this point would probably be to drill through the bottom of the butt cap and replace the current style bumper with a plug style one. I'll try and upload some pics of the cue with the butt cap removed and thanks for the responses.
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Your "experienced cue makers" are often not so "experienced" If you want good advice and some creative ideas don't believe everything you are told by the "experts"

Stainless joints are fcking heavy. as are steel pins and weight bolts. Ivory and aluminum are light. If you loose an ounce on a joint an ounce on a bolt and 1/2 on on pin it's 2 1/2 fking oz. Oh but Ive never wanted to lighten up a cue before or anything...

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I saved an ounce when Ernie replaced this with Ivory. :rolleyes:
 
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Would you "experts" like to talk about joint pins??

Weight per cubic inch;
stainless steel 4.576 oz.
aluminum 1.560 oz.
Ivory 1.055 oz.

G10....C'mon guy's??

Oh, and did we talk about brass inserts in shafts and how we could easily take a shit load of weight off right there??
 
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TwoRailDave said:
Thanks for the responses guys. I more or less expected the sentiments of many of you and feel similarly myself. My friend Dan is very adamant on doing this work himself. He's always done everything himself and gets satisfaction from doing it. I should also mention that he has a machinist background and used to make furniture as well. I myself have not seen under the bumper as we did not have an allen wrench with us so I cannot say whether the cue was cored. It does make sense though as a solid piece of ebony would probably be even heavier. I thought Dan told me it was solid and that there was no cavity inside -only a very small female hole to accept the small allen bolt. Obviously he would take the weight bolt out if there was one in there. That is not an option. Replacing the stainless sleeve with ivory is not going to reduce very much weight at all. I'd appreciate it if only experienced cue makers and or cuesmiths would comment. I suppose my advice to him at this point would probably be to drill through the bottom of the butt cap and replace the current style bumper with a plug style one. I'll try and upload some pics of the cue with the butt cap removed and thanks for the responses.
Click to expand...
OK, blowtorch the joint screw then.
Then band saw the SS joint and part it off.
Plug it up with maple for the new collar and joint screw .
3/8 10 G10 would be a good choice. McD used to use 3/8 10 as well.
Drill out the brass inserts in the shaft. Plug it up with maple.
Good luck in threading those shafts and blending the collars .
Refinish the whole cue .
Does it have a wrap? Replace the wrap.
 
jayman said:
Would you "experts" like to talk about joint pins??

Weight per cubic inch;
stainless steel 4.576 oz.
aluminum 1.560 oz.
Ivory 1.055 oz.

G10....C'mon guy's??

Oh, and did we talk about brass inserts in shafts and how we could easily take a shit load of weight off right there??
Click to expand...

1.3 to 1.4 oz for SS and brass 3/8.
G10 is wood weight.
 
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