How to TieUp balls

[Skratch]

Ok, for starters, no jokes about the title!

I'm fairly good at kick shots,and decent at jumping. But when those two options aren't good, I think tying up balls to prevent a run is the way to go. Its a great skill that I dont have much knowledge of. Suggestions on rules of thumb for this?

 

[TATE]

Ok, for starters, no jokes about the title!

I'm fairly good at kick shots,and decent at jumping. But when those two options aren't good, I think tying up balls to prevent a run is the way to go. Its a great skill that I dont have much knowledge of. Suggestions on rules of thumb for this?

So we're talking 9 ball I assume. It doesn't come up very often. It's a desperation move and balls have to be sitting right to do this. A good player is going to run out to the tied up balls and play a safety or possibly try to 3 foul you, so it works better against intermediate players. The advantage is you will probably get a return trip to the table with an easier kick.

I've shown a few common ones in the diagrams below. The skill comes from being able to softly roll a cue ball and OB into position to create a cluster. It's not much skill, but more knowledge and strategy. You only want to pursue this strategy if you have a relatively simple way to create a cluster. Still, even little shots like these are good to practice. I also think it's good to practice the next shot. Try to run the balls and play a lock up safety on the tied up ball.

 

[jimmyg]

When I used to play in local NYC tournaments, the better players (A+) were quite skilled at using this strategy. While I immediately realized how effective it was, I never quite mastered the concept and usually chose another option.

It's a lot more complicated than just trying to roll one ball up upon another, and I'm sure that it must be like first learning the basics of safety play where after much trial and error it becomes almost automatic.

Like to hear some of the "basics" also. Execution is another story and is always dependent upon the individual.

 

[TATE]

This would likely be my reply to the 2nd tie up above.


http://pool.bz/P/?@1ALhe4BLTJ4CHkO3DXmw1EUSD1FAkJ4GKFb3HFot2IYJg2PDoq2RGEt1ULhe1Ubbo4VLTJ4Vapo3VIvd3VVcT4bKFb4bJoY2kDoq1kJde1kHxm2kayU2kJHT2mGEt4mJGr@

 

[Skratch]

This would likely be my reply to the 2nd tie up above.


http://pool.bz/P/?@1ALhe4BLTJ4CHkO3DXmw1EUSD1FAkJ4GKFb3HFot2IYJg2PDoq2RGEt1ULhe1Ubbo4VLTJ4Vapo3VIvd3VVcT4bKFb4bJoY2kDoq1kJde1kHxm2kayU2kJHT2mGEt4mJGr@

Yeah, thats why I would have tied them up along the rail. I dont like leaving open balls even if they are clustered. In my regular practice I work to break them up so I know how important it is to tie up balls along the rail instead. It also makes them easier to aim at using a rail system if I'm forced to kick at them later.

Do you look for a particular ball to tie up like you tied up the seven next to the two ball in this example? What determines that for you?

 

[Skratch]

So we're talking 9 ball I assume. It doesn't come up very often. It's a desperation move and balls have to be sitting right to do this. A good player is going to run out to the tied up balls and play a safety or possibly try to 3 foul you, so it works better against intermediate players. The advantage is you will probably get a return trip to the table with an easier kick.

I've shown a few common ones in the diagrams below. The skill comes from being able to softly roll a cue ball and OB into position to create a cluster. It's not much skill, but more knowledge and strategy. You only want to pursue this strategy if you have a relatively simple way to create a cluster. Still, even little shots like these are good to practice. I also think it's good to practice the next shot. Try to run the balls and play a lock up safety on the tied up ball.

FYI, I dont necessarily mean 9ball. You can still tie up balls in a game of 8ball too.

 

[TATE]

Yeah, thats why I would have tied them up along the rail. I dont like leaving open balls even if they are clustered. In my regular practice I work to break them up so I know how important it is to tie up balls along the rail instead. It also makes them easier to aim at using a rail system if I'm forced to kick at them later.

Do you look for a particular ball to tie up like you tied up the seven next to the two ball in this example? What determines that for you?

Still, the kick to the 2 ball is better than the previous kick to the 1 ball, which is what you're trying to accomplish. You're just basically extending the game in hopes of getting more chances. In both cases I chose the easiest shot. Often there is no blocking ball shot, so this is not an option. basically you want to train yourself to recognize opportunities like this to mess up the table if the kick is ridiculously difficult. I have made two, three and even four rail kicks many times to avoid this option.

In rotation games, if I have a choice of balls to tie up, I don't like it to be the next ball after the current OB. With BIH it's too easy to get a break out or perfect shape for a safety. I prefer to place a lower numbered ball as a pocket blocker, to remove the possibility of leaving an easy combo.

I don't really play 8 ball but from what I've seen, tying up balls is a lot more common and creates a real chess match in that game. It's a different situation entirely since combo's from your balls to your opponents balls are not allowed.

 

[Black-Balled]

I think tying up balls is a great arrow in ones quiver.

I would estimate i do it mlst often when pushing after the break,,, maybe 1/20 times.

Leaving a decent shot on the ball that has a good chance of leading to nowhere...

 

[Skippy27]

The biggest thing you have to have for this is speed control.

I do this often in 8 ball if I miss a critical leave that is either going to stop my run or force me to hit my ball and break something out for them, even if it means I am hitting their ball to tie it up and giving them BIH.

As a rule of thumb I still try to tie it up with giving me the advantage. Tying up your last ball where you can't make it or get a good hit is not wise unless you MUST do it to prevent a loss.
As another rule of thumb is to check the ego and admit to yourself you have an issue so you tie up earlier rather than later.
Another rule of thumb is in 8 ball try to have it so that you have balls on different sides of the tie up, then it is harder for them safe you with your tie up.

 

[hang-the-9]

Ok, for starters, no jokes about the title!

I'm fairly good at kick shots,and decent at jumping. But when those two options aren't good, I think tying up balls to prevent a run is the way to go. Its a great skill that I dont have much knowledge of. Suggestions on rules of thumb for this?

Are you looking on HOW to do this or WHEN?

There are so many strategies here, and I'm sure half of them would be almost a gut feeling as to when to play a deliberate foul and tie up some balls (I'm assuming you mean this and not just play a legal shot and tie up balls). When I evaluate shoot/safe/kick/jump/masse/tie up options, the tie up is almost never in play. It's almost like a push-out, the person doing it will almost always end up at a disadvantage, but it's at times a necessary evil.

Basically you are taking a gamble on the guy not being able to break out the balls or be able to play a better safe on you than he did before, say like pocketing a 9 ball hanging in a pocket rather than go for a kick on a ball and maybe miss it, setting up a combo. You are betting that the chance of the guy running out is less than of him making the combo with ball in hand.

So you start the whole evaluation of the table and of the opponent thing, is he good enough to play shape to break things out easily? Can he play an even better safe if he gets to this cluster I made? Is a 50-50 chance of the kick a good chance here? Can I get a return safe off the kick even if the hit is not a high %? Then you roll the dice, do a gut check, and play the shot LOL

 

[Skratch]

Are you looking on HOW to do this or WHEN?

There are so many strategies here, and I'm sure half of them would be almost a gut feeling as to when to play a deliberate foul and tie up some balls (I'm assuming you mean this and not just play a legal shot and tie up balls). When I evaluate shoot/safe/kick/jump/masse/tie up options, the tie up is almost never in play. It's almost like a push-out, the person doing it will almost always end up at a disadvantage, but it's at times a necessary evil.

Basically you are taking a gamble on the guy not being able to break out the balls or be able to play a better safe on you than he did before, say like pocketing a 9 ball hanging in a pocket rather than go for a kick on a ball and maybe miss it, setting up a combo. You are betting that the chance of the guy running out is less than of him making the combo with ball in hand.

So you start the whole evaluation of the table and of the opponent thing, is he good enough to play shape to break things out easily? Can he play an even better safe if he gets to this cluster I made? Is a 50-50 chance of the kick a good chance here? Can I get a return safe off the kick even if the hit is not a high %? Then you roll the dice, do a gut check, and play the shot LOL

When to tie up is usually not decided by me. Its usually when I have not shot for a legal contact. So yes, an foul shot to tie up balls. My question is more of a matter of choice for the tie up. I normally tie up near a rail ball or make an open ball a rail ball close to another one. I try not to tie up the next ball after the ball in hand. IE, if he's shooting the 1 ball, I dont tie up the 2ball, but maybe the 3ball instead knowing that he can use the bih on the 1 ball to free up the 2ball. So general rules like that is what I'm looking for. Or make his shots between balls distance shots. Etc. Thanks fofr the comments.

 

[Skratch]

I think tying up balls is a great arrow in ones quiver.

I would estimate i do it mlst often when pushing after the break,,, maybe 1/20 times.

Leaving a decent shot on the ball that has a good chance of leading to nowhere...

Yeah, this happens to me too. I normally dont do this as I think the push shot alone is coming back to me about 60% of the time. I might if that player is more of a known risk taker. I have a better chance that he wont run out and leave me open. Thanks for the comment.

 

[Skratch]

The biggest thing you have to have for this is speed control.

I do this often in 8 ball if I miss a critical leave that is either going to stop my run or force me to hit my ball and break something out for them, even if it means I am hitting their ball to tie it up and giving them BIH.

As a rule of thumb I still try to tie it up with giving me the advantage. Tying up your last ball where you can't make it or get a good hit is not wise unless you MUST do it to prevent a loss.
As another rule of thumb is to check the ego and admit to yourself you have an issue so you tie up earlier rather than later.
Another rule of thumb is in 8 ball try to have it so that you have balls on different sides of the tie up, then it is harder for them safe you with your tie up.

Yeah, something like this as a response. Looking for good ideas since this is a weak area of my game since I dont find myself in this position too often. Thnaks for the comment.

 

[Skratch]

When I used to play in local NYC tournaments, the better players (A+) were quite skilled at using this strategy. While I immediately realized how effective it was, I never quite mastered the concept and usually chose another option.

It's a lot more complicated than just trying to roll one ball up upon another, and I'm sure that it must be like first learning the basics of safety play where after much trial and error it becomes almost automatic.

Like to hear some of the "basics" also. Execution is another story and is always dependent upon the individual.

You cant always run out. I've had some real crappy luck sometimes and have to tie up balls and surrender the ball in hand. The idea is to make it as hard as possible for them to run out or safety you back, but I'm sure there are lots of idea that havent been shared for HOW to do this. Thanks for the comment.

 

[Skippy27]

One thing that I have done often is line all 15 balls up along the head string and then shot them one at a time and each ball must go further then the previous one or you start over. You can't hit the foot rail either.

As you get better at doing that then shorten your allowed limit a diamond until you can do it within a diamond or a diamond in a half depending on table size.

The absolute best I have ever done was all 15 balls within a little less then a diamond and a half on my valley (that is about 15 inches as each diamond is 10").

Once you get good at that, then start hitting them with the cue ball as that is real world there.

One other thing I do and people typically freak out when they see it is that if I am down to my last ball, lets say the 8 ball and it is tied up with one of your balls and I have the advantage (8 is on the pocket side), then I just shoot my opponents break out balls away while trying to make them. My goal is to get them down to that last tied up ball as well. Then they can safe me, but they are going to keep inching my ball closer to the kick into the pocket as I keep putting their ball on the 8.

9 ball is clearly different as you both shoot the same balls so you have to be careful not to tie it up so that it is a make-able combo shot.

 

[Black-Balled]

Just to clarify... i will usually pus to a decent shot that leaves a poop out.

Yeah, this happens to me too. I normally dont do this as I think the push shot alone is coming back to me about 60% of the time. I might if that player is more of a known risk taker. I have a better chance that he wont run out and leave me open. Thanks for the comment.

 

[Scott Lee]

The greatest skill you can develop for these kinds of situations is the finesse stroke...very short bridge (< 2" from CB), and move your grip up to the front of the wrap area. I teach 4 different finesse speeds...all less than a lag.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

 

[TATE]

The greatest skill you can develop for these kinds of situations is the finesse stroke...very short bridge (< 2" from CB), and move your grip up to the front of the wrap area. I teach 4 different finesse speeds...all less than a lag.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

FYI, years ago Scott Lee taught me how to roll the cue ball slowly and accurately with a short stroke. I use it to this day and it's one of the best tips I've ever had.