How to Use the Masse' Shot to Curve Around Obstructing Balls

Mirza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's common to confuse "aiming" with aligning, although I try to be specific when possible.

And you can align the same, although only when you understand the fundamentals correctly......

I asked you about aiming, read my post again.
 

Mikjary

Droppin' a Fauci
Silver Member
It's common to confuse "aiming" with aligning, although I try to be specific when possible.

And you can align the same, although only when you understand the fundamentals correctly......

CJ,

Are you using a specific aiming method that sends the cue ball to its intended target? Or are you aligning to get your result by calculating the deflection of the cue ball with your tip placement?

When I first started to learn to shoot masse' shots, I was more attuned to the deflection of the cue ball with different speeds to hit my target. With experience, I learned to not only control the speed, but stroke, also.

With practice, I developed my own method of aiming and not just aligning and relying on deflection and speed. I learned to vary the results for different occasions, including a slightly curving jump shot.

Best,
Mike
 
CJ,

Are you using a specific aiming method that sends the cue ball to its intended target? Or are you aligning to get your result by calculating the deflection of the cue ball with your tip placement?

When I first started to learn to shoot masse' shots, I was more attuned to the deflection of the cue ball with different speeds to hit my target. With experience, I learned to not only control the speed, but stroke, also.

With practice, I developed my own method of aiming and not just aligning and relying on deflection and speed. I learned to vary the results for different occasions, including a slightly curving jump shot.

Best,
Mike

Mike; see later post!
 
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Hungarian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've only looked at the original post and I predict that the haters are going to loose their minds with this post.

The masse shot is useful to get out of troubling situations. The system I use makes this as simple as possible, with a little practice you can do it too. Just don't practice it at a place that doesn't allow masse' shots, it's best to get it perfected at home before taking it out in public (if possible).

Here's an example of a masse' shot that will give you a starting point to learn the technique. If you have other situations or to learn how to aim this type of shot I'll be happy to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

LINK TO LEARNING THE MASSE" SHOT VIDEO
 
CJ,

Are you using a specific aiming method that sends the cue ball to its intended target? Or are you aligning to get your result by calculating the deflection of the cue ball with your tip placement?

When I first started to learn to shoot masse' shots, I was more attuned to the deflection of the cue ball with different speeds to hit my target. With experience, I learned to not only control the speed, but stroke, also.

With practice, I developed my own method of aiming and not just aligning and relying on deflection and speed. I learned to vary the results for different occasions, including a slightly curving jump shot.

Best,
Mike

Mike; can you post a video to show and explain, 'your method' involving masse shots.

I posted this video from of a gentleman from Spain that explains the, 'Physics' of the masse shot in detail!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8nWQdiQes
 
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Hungarian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds good to give you a reference point to work and measure against..

Coriolis, the French mathematician, described this masse aiming technique. The essential principle is to elevate the cue until your tip points down through the CB at an imaginary line on the table drawn from the CB's base forward and parallel to the path you want the CB to take after curving. The "compass" direction you point the cue determines the CB's initial direction. How hard you hit the CB determines how far it goes in that initial direction before completing the curve onto the parallel path.

It's the best masse aiming technique I know, it's very accurate with some practice, and it works on all masse shots from small shallow curves to 180-degree "turnaround" curves.

pj
chgo
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've only looked at the original post and I predict that the haters are going to loose their minds with this post.

Proof positive that you judge without even reading. You place no merit in what is said, only by who said it and you place people in different "camps" without even reading what they say. Then, you label them as "haters" to suit your agenda.

But, you never try and stir up anything on here, do you? :rolleyes:
 

Hungarian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read enough of your stuff to have formed my final decision.

Proof positive that you judge without even reading. You place no merit in what is said, only by who said it and you place people in different "camps" without even reading what they say. Then, you label them as "haters" to suit your agenda.

But, you never try and stir up anything on here, do you? :rolleyes:
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Coiling the shoulder is vitally important to hitting the masse' shot accurately

CJ,

Are you using a specific aiming method that sends the cue ball to its intended target? Or are you aligning to get your result by calculating the deflection of the cue ball with your tip placement?

When I first started to learn to shoot masse' shots, I was more attuned to the deflection of the cue ball with different speeds to hit my target. With experience, I learned to not only control the speed, but stroke, also.

With practice, I developed my own method of aiming and not just aligning and relying on deflection and speed. I learned to vary the results for different occasions, including a slightly curving jump shot.

Best,
Mike

When a player knows how to coil the shoulder correctly it won't matter how high they have to elevate their cue, This means they can "aim" the shot through precise alignment. Then, of course, you have to practice the acceleration at the moment of contact, which, ironically, is the same as any other shot.....if they fundamentals are correct, so that the shoulder, arm, wrist, and hand is connected to the tip through the cue stick (the hips are connected too)......how many players do this correctly?

Very few....very few indeed.

Efren is the one that I saw use this technique when performing the masse' shot. I simply modeled it and learned it in a matter of ten minutes....ONLY because my shoulder motion is correct, if this wasn't the case I could not learn it so quickly.

Coiling the shoulder is vitally important to hitting the masse' shot accurately. imho
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Mike's question:
CJ,

Are you using a specific aiming method that sends the cue ball to its intended target? Or are you aligning to get your result by calculating the deflection of the cue ball with your tip placement?
CJ's answer:
When a player knows how to coil the shoulder correctly it won't matter how high they have to elevate their cue, This means they can "aim" the shot through precise alignment. Then, of course, you have to practice the acceleration at the moment of contact, which, ironically, is the same as any other shot.....if they fundamentals are correct, so that the shoulder, arm, wrist, and hand is connected to the tip through the cue stick (the hips are connected too)......how many players do this correctly?

Very few....very few indeed.

Efren is the one that I saw use this technique when performing the masse' shot. I simply modeled it and learned it in a matter of ten minutes....ONLY because my shoulder motion is correct, if this wasn't the case I could not learn it so quickly.

Coiling the shoulder is vitally important to hitting the masse' shot accurately. imho
I was kinda interested in the answer to Mike's question, but I don't see it here. Maybe I just don't speak TOI...?

pj
chgo
 
With practice, I developed my own method of aiming and not just aligning and relying on deflection and speed. I learned to vary the results for different occasions, including a slightly curving jump shot.

Best,
Mike

Mike; can you post a video to show and explain, 'your method' involving masse shots.

I posted this video from of a gentleman from Spain that explains the, 'Physics' of the masse shot in detail!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8nWQdiQes

I'd like to get an answer to my question, I speak English fairly well!
 

DTL

SP 219
Silver Member
.....................
 

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Mikjary

Droppin' a Fauci
Silver Member
With practice, I developed my own method of aiming and not just aligning and relying on deflection and speed. I learned to vary the results for different occasions, including a slightly curving jump shot.

Best,
Mike

Mike; can you post a video to show and explain, 'your method' involving masse shots.

I posted this video from of a gentleman from Spain that explains the, 'Physics' of the masse shot in detail!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8nWQdiQes

I'd like to get an answer to my question, I speak English fairly well!

I've been looking around trying to find part 2 of the video. The first part was a well done technical examination of the masse' physical components. I'm sure his part two would be quite a bit better than my system. I'm a hack compared to Mr. Trilles, as I'm sure 99% of all others are, too. :wink:

The guy has the masse' down to a basic stroke and uses it at a world class level. If I practice for years and get that good, you'll get a video. One tip I have is, don't hold your breath. :grin: J/K Thanks for the link. Is there a part 2? I'd like to see it.

And yes... Your English is better than my English and I was born in America. :cool:

Best,
Mike
 
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I've been looking around trying to find part 2 of the video. The first part was a well done technical examination of the masse' physical components. I'm sure his part two would be quite a bit better than my system. I'm a hack compared to Mr. Trilles, as I'm sure 99% of all others are, too. :wink:

The guy has the masse' down to a basic stroke and uses it at a world class level. If I practice for years and get that good, you'll get a video. One tip I have is, don't hold your breath. :grin: J/K Thanks for the link. Is there a part 2? I'd like to see it.

And yes... Your English is better than my English and I was born in America. :cool:

Best,
Mike

Mike; I have not yet been able to find, (part 2) of this instruction. When I do, I'll post for all to view!

BTW, I, also was born here!
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
Coiling in sports/games is no great mystery

The shoulder is a unique joint. Unlike many of the other joints in out bodies, the shoulder can move many different ways. It can flex, extend, abduct, adduct, internally rotate, externally rotate, and swing in a circular motion (a combination of all movements). This is due to the anatomy of the shoulder --> unlike the hip where the head of the femur (thigh) is almost completely surrounded by the joint space, the shoulder joint is very shallow which allows for its wide range of motion. It's essentially held in place by muscles that surround it on 4 different sides, the rotator cuff.

Technically speaking, we can not coil our shoulder. The word coil is often used when talking about various athletic techniques such as "coiling" the big muscles of the upper body in the "shoulder turn" of a golf swing.

When in a full pool stance the shoulder is extended (backward position). The degree of extension depends on how one gets down on the shot......how close the chin is to the cue. Some players do this more than others, think snooker player vs pool player......see pics. I don't think this has anything to do with the outcome of the shot as most of the movement in the stroke is done by extension/flexion of the forearm by the elbow joint. The shoulder starts to flex forward (causes the elbow to drop) usually after tip contact with the CB (after the CB is on its way down the table). A notable and rare exception is Mike Davis. His shoulder is an active part of his stroke. Note: If one has their grip hand very forward, in front of the balance point, he/she will have more of an elbow drop and thus more shoulder movement.....and a pushing-like stroke. CJ does this and does it very well. :thumbup: This is the exception though as most players don't play like this.....and not something that is taught by the majority of instructors.

"Coiling the shoulder" has been mentioned before, not just in relation to masse shots. I don't know what this means and why it is "vitally important". I guess it's another one of those many secrets you talk about. :wink:


DTL, PA-C

You may coil your shoulder on "jump shots," or "jacked up" over a ball.

Coiling in sports/games is no great mystery, although it''s not commonly taught in pool....it's apparent in golf and tennis. I've not seen a champion player that doesn't coil to some extent, especially when elevating their cue - it's the same principle in regular shots.
 
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Colin Colenso

<-- My Kids
Silver Member
Yes, there's a system that allows you to do this no matter how much masse' is needed. It's pretty cool, however, it takes a good understanding of the upper body mechanics, and how they conform to the cue's tip......'The Game is the Teacher'
Had you ever heard of Coriolis before this thread C.J.?
 

Colin Colenso

<-- My Kids
Silver Member
Perhaps you missed one of my points in post #53 :).......you can't coil the shoulder. The shoulder is a joint. Now one can really stretch the muscles surrounding/near the shoulder (deltoid, trapezius, rotator cuff (4), etc........wind up, coil, or whatever term you want to apply to it.

When shooting a masse or jacked up, one has to, as you say, coil the shoulder (almost full extension of the shoulder).

DTL

"coiling" a joint might cause a tear in the cartilage or a ligament......ouch :(
Funny:)

But I believe coiling, in terms of biomechanics, refers to a sequencing of contrations of various muscles in order to create a degree of eccentric contraction in the following muscle being contracted, as placing muscles in eccentric contraction allows them to contract with significantly more force.

Some call it timing, but it's really about the timing of contractions and the coordination there in.
 
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