How Would You Play This? 8-ball

Jude Rosenstock said:
Thanks for posting a diagram of this - The response to this safety would be to tie up the 8-ball with the 15-ball like so -


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That's OK. You should still be able to win from there.
 
cuesblues said:
I like this shot because it gets it opens up the 1ball for the next shot. The other way could tie it up more.
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You're right but you have to look at this as potentially a two or three inning scenario. You begin with the kick-safety and they are forced to try and tie-up the 8-ball. You then will have ball-in-hand for your next safety which will hopefully be enough to open up the table sufficiently to get out.

By the way you like, you're pretty much forced to break out the 8-ball AND get position. Not my cup of tea, if you ask me.
 
SPINDOKTOR said:

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Did not even see this. My first thought was the original post kicking up behind the 1. I like this though. Best for a frozen ball situation.
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
I know there are a lot of APA players here - This was a shot that came up for one of my teammates last night. You're solids, the one-ball is NOT frozen, the 8-ball does pass. ...
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With the benefit of having seen the other responses, I propose barely touching the one on the left side. Leave the cue ball more or less frozen to the one and angled at about 45 degrees. This does not leave your opponent a way to tie up the one into the 8-15. He has to try kick to hit the 15.

The problem with this safe in the situation cited is that most league players don't have a stroke soft enough to execute the shot.
 
Bob Jewett said:
With the benefit of having seen the other responses, I propose barely touching the one on the left side. Leave the cue ball more or less frozen to the one and angled at about 45 degrees. This does not leave your opponent a way to tie up the one into the 8-15. He has to try kick to hit the 15.

The problem with this safe in the situation cited is that most league players don't have a stroke soft enough to execute the shot.
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Actually, you bring up an excellent point, though. If you choose to kick at it, the objective would be to leave the cueball close to the 1-ball with an angle that would not allow him to tie-up the balls.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Interestingly, when I woke up this morning, I thought of this option and just now it hit me - you're not going to get your opponent to kick. The correct return for your opponent would be to tie-up the 8-ball. Now, you CAN win from here and there's still a very good chance you will but I'm liking the kick-safe originally posted by IBA more and more.
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Jude;

I prefer the other one, Kryptonite9, that is thinning the side of the 1 and sending the cue to the other side of the table, hopefully leaving it on the rail. Reason is that the return shot for the opponent is more difficult because the 1 is in front of the hole and presents more options.

The return from the lag would be to cluster the 1 into the other balls, starting a safety game, where as the best option on the other shot would be to cluster the 8 and 15. Since the Q ball is farther, on the opposite rail, the shot would more difficult that the closer option (.

With BIH, you should be able to knock the 8 out off the 1, since its closer to the pocket and not on the rail anymore.
 
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Deadon said:
Jude;

I prefer the other one, that is other side the 1 and sending the cue to the other side of the table. Reason is that the return shot for the opponent is more difficult because the 1 is in front of the hole and presents more options.

The return from the lag would be to cluster the 1 into the other balls, starting a safety game, where as the best option on the other shot would be to cluster the 8 and 15. Since the Q ball is farther, on the opposite rail, the shot would more difficult that the closer option.

With BIH, you should be able to knock the 8 out off the 1, since its closer to the pocket and not on the rail anymore.
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I already replied to this shot - the problem is, you're gambling on a break-out shot with the 1-ball. I mean, it depends on the caliber of my opponent but the break-out is no guarantee.
 
Like I said, I prefer this because of the options. You can make the one and play safe. You can leave the 1 were it was and play safe. It gives me more choices and puts me in control of the game.

Without hesitation and BIH, I would break them out. I play enough straight pool and 1 pocket to know how to break them out and get position. Then again, I play aggressive, others may not.
 
The solids have a tremendous advantage in this game. The best way to lose this advantage would be to let the opponant kick at the stripe ball by going up table and back and possably get a hook on the solid ball.

The option is to kick safe at the one and and expect opponant to push the one up to the stripe, giving you ball in hand, and hope for an unlikely mistake from you. That would be his best option from a desperate situation. You in turn have many options to win from there.
 
dabarbr said:
The solids have a tremendous advantage in this game. The best way to lose this advantage would be to let the opponant kick at the stripe ball by going up table and back and possably get a hook on the solid ball.

The option is to kick safe at the one and and expect opponant to push the one up to the stripe, giving you ball in hand, and hope for an unlikely mistake from you. That would be his best option from a desperate situation. You in turn have many options to win from there.
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Frank;

I doubt if very many players would risk that shot when they have an effective safety. If you don't do it perfect, you lose, game over. Most players won't take a chance
 
Deadon said:
Like I said, I prefer this because of the options. You can make the one and play safe. You can leave the 1 were it was and play safe. It gives me more choices and puts me in control of the game.

Without hesitation and BIH, I would break them out. I play enough straight pool and 1 pocket to know how to break them out and get position. Then again, I play aggressive, others may not.
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Okay, my point more than anything is that if you play your safety this way, I'm going to create a situation for you where a mistake is a possibility. You're going to have to come up with something good in order to win in your next inning. I'm not saying you're an underdog but I am saying you don't have to be successful, either.

By kicking, you keep the 1-ball in position to use as a blocker in case another safety is necessary.
 
Deadon said:
Frank;

I doubt if very many players would risk that shot when they have an effective safety. If you don't do it perfect, you lose, game over. Most players won't take a chance
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I'm sorry but I don't see the risk in kicking at the one since it is not frozen. The chances of it winding up into a position for it to be pushed onto the stripe is small. In either case like you said you should be able to open them up with control with ball in hand. For me it might take a couple of ball in hands to get balls into position before I would commit to breaking them up.

My main point was that letting my opponant go uptable and kick at the stripe and maybe hooking me would give him a chance to win where there was non.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
This was the shot I thought of last night but I'm not 100% certain it was the best option. Seriously, the more i think of it, the less I like it though you're right, you ARE the dead-on favorite to win from here.
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This is another scenario. What if your opponent decides to foul and tie up the 1 and the 15?
I still say the solid is still the favorite here, but a stubborn opponent can really make this an ugly game! :D
 
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The kick behind the 1 seems obviously the best shot, but looking at the cue table it's difficult to see how easy it really is. For example, if you could execute the shot with no english it clearly seems best. But perhaps the pockets are big and you have to use outside. Then it seems a worse option because you could easily spin the CB out into the open off the 2nd rail, and it's more difficult to aim.

But if you can shoot it with no english it's so easy to execute and will trap him FAR better than the other options given.

Why? Because your kick options are all very low percentage to hit the ball and get safe.

With the other options given it's pretty easy hit to 1-rail to the head rail and hit the 15, and you would have a lot of chances to get safe coming at the 15 from this angle. The 15 will be going towards the 1 ball and you will have a good chance at hooking the 1 or even tying up the balls. Also, the CB is out in the open with these other options and you have far more options to kick. It is also going to be far more difficult to fully hook your opponent behind the 8-ball because the CB has to travel so far on the safe. You are likely to leave a thin ball for your opponent.

But after the kick behind the 1, it's near impossible to come at the 15 from an angle where you can get safe. You would have to go at least 3 rails to come at it from the better side.

If you 1-rail or 2-rail to hit the 15 off the bottom cushion, it's virtually impossible to avoid selling out even if you hit the 15 because the 15 will move uptable and the 1 will be seen and most likely makeable. Even if it's not makeable after this kick, the 8 is in a great position to hook the 15 again off the 1.

So it seems the kick behind the 1 is clearly the best option unless it's far more difficult than it appears to execute. The resulting trap is just far worse for your opponent than the other options given.
 
kryptonite9 said:
I suggested thinning the 1 ball,

The key to my play is to get the 1 close to the pocket and get the cueball over to the side rail. The kick safe is much too easy if you leave the cueball in the middle of the table.
If you tie up the 8/15 (like Jude suggested) with BIH I like my chances to break out the cluster if the 1 ball is in the jaws.

The kick behind the 1 is a definite lock, but the space behind a ball that close to the rail is very small esp when you have to kick at a slow speed with english. This would most certainly also end up in the incoming player tieing up the 1/8/15. You should be able to win, but for me the risk is much more than the reward.
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Anybody who does not choose to kick softly at the 1 ball safety should take 2 weeks off than quit pool forever because if you don't immediately determine that is the best shot you are hopeless
 
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