How Would You Play This? 8ball CSI 2014 Finals

railbird99 said:
Our vantage point doesn't allow us to see the exact angle, but I'm pretty sure the issue with cutting the 14 in the other corner is the scratch. That's if he just rolled it in using center or top. I'm sure if it wasn't a scratch shot, that's the shot he would have chosen, rather than taking such a thin cut and flirting with the traffic on the other side of the table.

I still like cutting the 14 in that corner like you said, but it probably required hitting with a little more speed and drawing the cue ball to the side rail to miss the scratch (and maybe a little outside english), then coming off the short rail back up for a less than ideal cut on the 8 in the left side.

I think that was the shot, given we got to see how the angle on the other shot played out. I think Darren was confident in how he saw the angle, but in reality he misjudged it.
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I don't know, to me it looks like the tangent line goes to the pocket, so I think you could avoid the scratch by 3-4" just hitting it soft with follow. I would be tempted to play it with a bit of inside as well, just to slow the cueball down a bit, and that would take the scratch out of play even more. These camera angles can be very tricky, though, so I may not be seeing it right.

Aaron
 
Aaron_S said:
I don't know, to me it looks like the tangent line goes to the pocket, so I think you could avoid the scratch by 3-4" just hitting it soft with follow. I would be tempted to play it with a bit of inside as well, just to slow the cueball down a bit, and that would take the scratch out of play even more. These camera angles can be very tricky, though, so I may not be seeing it right.

Aaron
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To me it looks like the tangent line goes above the pocket, but I can see what you are saying. I just don't think darren would have overlooked that shot if it was possible, since it is much easier and safer.
 
I just want to mention, I don't post here nearly as often as I once did so some of you are not very familiar to me. For one, it's nice to see so many good ideas and perspectives. I reviewed this shot a dozen times before posting and you've all made me review it a dozen more times.

There are a few here that didn't want this thread to turn into a "how could Appleton be so stupid" thread and it didn't. Appleton's ability is not in question here at all. Anyone who has played 8ball on a slick barbox with 4" pockets knows how challenging it can be, especially hill-hill in the finals. I think Appleton could read this thread and be happy that nobody allowed the thread to degrade like so many threads have before this one.

Anyway, thanks for being respectful to each other. If discussions of this nature turn-out as well as this one did, maybe you'll see me here more often.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
I just want to mention, I don't post here nearly as often as I once did so some of you are not very familiar to me. For one, it's nice to see so many good ideas and perspectives. I reviewed this shot a dozen times before posting and you've all made me review it a dozen more times.

There are a few here that didn't want this thread to turn into a "how could Appleton be so stupid" thread and it didn't. Appleton's ability is not in question here at all. Anyone who has played 8ball on a slick barbox with 4" pockets knows how challenging it can be, especially hill-hill in the finals. I think Appleton could read this thread and be happy that nobody allowed the thread to degrade like so many threads have before this one.

Anyway, thanks for being respectful to each other. If discussions of this nature turn-out as well as this one did, maybe you'll see me here more often.
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Nice post Jude. I've been around since the RSB days, but these WWYD threads are one of the few things that will bring me out of lurk mode nowadays. Thanks for the thread.

Aaron
 
Since he obviously over ran his position on the 14 ball why not just shoot it in the same pocket as the 11 ball? I believe he could have held the cue ball for position on the 8 in the side or worst case scenario maybe had to shoot the 8 in the same corner as the 11 or even back cut it to the corner where the 14 was originally sitting.
 
APA Gene said:
Since he obviously over ran his position on the 14 ball why not just shoot it in the same pocket as the 11 ball? I believe he could have held the cue ball for position on the 8 in the side or worst case scenario maybe had to shoot the 8 in the same corner as the 11 or even back cut it to the corner where the 14 was originally sitting.
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I'm an advocate for this shot, but railbird pointed out that the scratch may be more in play than it appears to us from this camera angle. I have been fooled by these camera angles before, so I definitely can't disagree with him.

I do still feel the shot is there, however, and I think the reason Daz didn't shoot it that way is not because of the scratch risk, but because he really felt he could go 2 rails between the 4 and the long rail and come out fine. You can see him point his cue at the foot rail in an apparent misjudgment of how the cb would come off of the 14-ball. He felt he could come in a lot shorter than he did, which led to him running into balls and getting hooked. At least that's my humble attempt at reading a world class player's mind. :embarrassed2:

Aaron
 
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Neil said:
I would have played the entire rack differently. I feel that the way he played it, he was asking for trouble near the end of the rack, and he got what he was asking for.

That said, when he shot that ball into the corner (three balls left), he should have drawn back up towards the side pocket and took the ball near the 8 as his second to last ball.
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As said by others...in response to others:
Guy's probably the best 8 baller in the world. He can and has done things with the game that we never have or will.

He doesn't approach it from the same perspective as we do.
 
If he doesn't cut the 14 so thin he hits the 4 full and has a shot on the 8. I think he shot it right just got a bad result.
 
Nice problem catch, Jude.

When I shot the 11 ball, I think I would have played to barely graze the two ball, VERY softly. If I had hit the two fairly square the cue ball would have stopped right next to the two ball, leaving the cue ball close to the 14 ball, leaving a relatively easy cut in the lower right corner pocket. If it barely grazed the two ball on the right side the cue ball, traveling very slowly the cue would be dead straight on the 14 ball. The eight ball goes in 5 of the 6 pockets, so my primary concern is staying out of traffic. I don't like drawing the cue ball between the 14 ball and the 5 ball. Unfortunate things could happen if you run into either of them.

Darren just hit the cue ball too hard. I did notice that it looked like he used INSIDE ENGLISH on the 14 ball which may have been part of the problem of him getting hooked on the 8 ball.

Just my thoughts.

JoeyA
 
You're pure class as usual Jude.

JoeyA

Jude Rosenstock said:
I just want to mention, I don't post here nearly as often as I once did so some of you are not very familiar to me. For one, it's nice to see so many good ideas and perspectives. I reviewed this shot a dozen times before posting and you've all made me review it a dozen more times.

There are a few here that didn't want this thread to turn into a "how could Appleton be so stupid" thread and it didn't. Appleton's ability is not in question here at all. Anyone who has played 8ball on a slick barbox with 4" pockets knows how challenging it can be, especially hill-hill in the finals. I think Appleton could read this thread and be happy that nobody allowed the thread to degrade like so many threads have before this one.

Anyway, thanks for being respectful to each other. If discussions of this nature turn-out as well as this one did, maybe you'll see me here more often.
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I think he played the right shot on the 11. He just missed it...his shape on the 14. On the 14 he's a little out of line and tricky. Again I think he played the right shot, but he overcut the 14 and missed his shape again. He could have tried more right spin, trying to spin 2 rails and hit the deuce full instead of the 4, but not sure those percentages are any better.
 
Black-Balled said:
As said by others...in response to others:
Guy's probably the best 8 baller in the world. He can and has done things with the game that we never have or will.

He doesn't approach it from the same perspective as we do.
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Yeah, I noticed he hooked himself.;) Yes, he is great. Heck, he's fantastic. That doesn't mean that he doesn't screw up once in a while like the rest of us do far more often.
 
Aaron_S said:
I do still feel the shot is there, however, and I think the reason Daz didn't shoot it that way is not because of the scratch risk, but because he really felt he could go 2 rails between the 4 and the long rail and come out fine. You can see him point his cue at the foot rail in an apparent misjudgment of how the cb would come off of the 14-ball. He felt he could come in a lot shorter than he did, which led to him running into balls and getting hooked. At least that's my humble attempt at reading a world class player's mind. :embarrassed2:
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You may be right, my only contention is that the thin cut he took on the 14 seems like a tougher shot than playing it in the other corner, and even if Darren was confident in the angle, he would still be unnecessarily sending the cue ball towards traffic, where he has little to no margin for error.

If the scratch on the other shot was not an issue, I just don't see why he wouldn't have instantly chosen that shot, instead of taking the harder, riskier shot.

To me, it seems like it's an easier shot, and you are pretty much guaranteed to have a shot on the 8, without going through any traffic. I just don't think he would overlook something like that, if it indeed was that simple.
 
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Neil said:
Yeah, I noticed he hooked himself.;) Yes, he is great. Heck, he's fantastic. That doesn't mean that he doesn't screw up once in a while like the rest of us do far more often.
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As well, I don't think there's a single pool player on the planet that is above criticism. I started this thread because I firmly believe Appleton should have won. Was it a mistake in execution on the 11? Maybe. He could have used a little less spin, perhaps hit it a little softer. My point was to discuss the options. We'll never know for sure but maybe Appleton thought about every option we've discussed. Maybe he had a similar shot earlier and nailed the shape so he favored it.

Something to consider, I think Appleton is allowed to make occasional mistakes in judgement BECAUSE he's so talented. The rare moments when it doesn't work out for him are the very best to scrutinize because of this.
 
With that said, I'm going to send Apple a link to this thread. I would love to know what he has to say about second thoughts and thirds...

JoeyA

Jude Rosenstock said:
As well, I don't think there's a single pool player on the planet that is above criticism. I started this thread because I firmly believe Appleton should have won. Was it a mistake in execution on the 11? Maybe. He could have used a little less spin, perhaps hit it a little softer. My point was to discuss the options. We'll never know for sure but maybe Appleton thought about every option we've discussed. Maybe he had a similar shot earlier and nailed the shape so he favored it.

Something to consider, I think Appleton is allowed to make occasional mistakes in judgement BECAUSE he's so talented. The rare moments when it doesn't work out for him are the very best to scrutinize because of this.
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