How Would You Play This? Kick To Win

[JoeyA]

Banger's Paradise

Joey, you are simply too good a player to even consider giving up ball-in-hand here. In my opinion, of course .

- Steve

Steve, that was simply too kind of you, but thanks anyway.

You just haven't been down here to New Orleans to see the level of talent. No need to risk hitting those two balls on the side rail and/or missing the one altogether. Just play a safe and not to worry.

We've got so many ball bangers here most of them couldn't get out of town with a GPS. At least that's the case with most of the bangers at Banger's Paradise.

Best Regards,
JoeyA

 

[ShootingArts]

ouch!

Steve, that was simply too kind of you, but thanks anyway.

You just haven't been down here to New Orleans to see the level of talent. No need to risk hitting those two balls on the side rail and/or missing the one altogether. Just play a safe and not to worry.

We've got so many ball bangers here most of them couldn't get out of town with a GPS. At least that's the case with most of the bangers at Banger's Paradise.

Best Regards,
JoeyA

A dozen guys at the corner just keeled over sideways with that sharp stabbing pain in the ribs where you slid in the knife!

Hu

 

[sjm]

If I were going to kick, I would seriously consider this route in addition to the others mentioned. This kick is harder to judge than some others, but the 1 is pretty big from this angle, plus there's no risk of following the 1 in the side or having an awkward angle on the deuce if you kick it in this way.

CueTable Help

This is best. Right hand draw into the rail. The two rail kick is also solid, but less certain to produce the shape. Tying up the three and four is useless here, as opponent can break that cluster easily with ball in hand using the one in the side, while preserving shape on the two.

 

[PoolBum]

If I were going to kick, I would seriously consider this route in addition to the others mentioned. This kick is harder to judge than some others, but the 1 is pretty big from this angle, plus there's no risk of following the 1 in the side or having an awkward angle on the deuce if you kick it in this way.

CueTable Help

This is the highest percentage route, IMO, especially if you know your stroke well and have practiced kicks where you have to shorten up the angle with low inside English.

 

[JoeyA]

A dozen guys at the corner just keeled over sideways with that sharp stabbing pain in the ribs where you slid in the knife!

Hu

Hu, you and I both know that Banger's Paradise is an imaginary place about an imaginary pool hall that once was or more reasonably, once could have been but probably never will be much of anything.

The dozen guys you are speaking about are only doubled over with laughter as they peer behind the curtain at the small minded little man who tries feveriously to keep the curtain closed.

The players themselves actually see the irony of a guy with a rep who can't make the right decision on giving up the table or gambling to keep it.

Best regards,
JoeyA

 

[ShootingArts]

Kinda like Margaritaville?

Joey,

I guess what you are trying to say is that Banger's Paradise is kinda like Margaritaville. Margaritaville is an imaginary place where everything is golden and Banger's Paradise is an imaginary place where everything is a golden shower. That about right?

Hu

Hu, you and I both know that Banger's Paradise is an imaginary place about an imaginary pool hall that once was or more reasonably, once could have been but probably never will be much of anything.

The dozen guys you are speaking about are only doubled over with laughter as they peer behind the curtain at the small minded little man who tries feveriously to keep the curtain closed.

The players themselves actually see the irony of a guy with a rep who can't make the right decision on giving up the table or gambling to keep it.

Best regards,
JoeyA

 

[BPG24]

txspaderz
I'm really not big on "shoot[ing] towards the other side pocket about an inch with a tip of right" simply because you're jacked-up over the 8-ball. You're playing a masse admittedly it's small and predictable but still hard to be very accurate.

BPG24, mosconiac, Russ Chewning
I wish in my world things were "dead" going two rails. As I suspected, this is a very popular answer but not the approach I would choose. I can see going this way and being successful but I don't see it being the best approach.
jsp, steev
This would probably be my second choice since it shouldn't be terribly difficult to judge. To give you a hint, my first choice isn't much different than this.

JoeyA
There's no way I'm giving up ball-in-hand here. I gotta think I'm the favorite to make this shot most of the time. By tying up the balls, I'm turning the game into a coin-toss, at best.

Russ Chewning #2 & 3
If you are going to deliberately foul, you have to go with your second choice and not your third. By placing the 4 on the left side of the 3ball, you're taking a huge chance at leaving a combination. If they don't freeze it up, you lose. If you freeze it dead for the corner, you lose.

Maybe i should have said that if you understand the diamond system, its dead 2 rails.....
You will never convince me that your 1 rail with inside spin shot is more accurate... i don't know how you have made yourself believe that it is

 

[poolcuemaster]

I'm jumping the one in and drawing down table for the two with a Varney j-break, it looks like you have a 1/2 inch gap between the cue ball and thats all thats needed.--Leonard

 

[JoeyA]

Joey,

I guess what you are trying to say is that Banger's Paradise is kinda like Margaritaville. Margaritaville is an imaginary place where everything is golden and Banger's Paradise is an imaginary place where everything is a golden shower. That about right?

Hu

I have heard many people make that comparison.
JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

This is best. Right hand draw into the rail. The two rail kick is also solid, but less certain to produce the shape. Tying up the three and four is useless here, as opponent can break that cluster easily with ball in hand using the one in the side, while preserving shape on the two.

You guys are nuts. You don't need shape on the 2 - it goes from just about anywhere, even frozen to the long rail, with natural shape on the 3. If you think this forced two railer is more likely than the natural two railer, I wish you gambled at my room.

pj
chgo

 

[poolhustler]

I can't wait to get my table set up so I can go and set up these shots. Off the cuff, the option I would try is the bottom rail with inside. I like my chances better of making the one and getting on the 3 ball.

Russ....

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Maybe i should have said that if you understand the diamond system, its dead 2 rails.....
You will never convince me that your 1 rail with inside spin shot is more accurate... i don't know how you have made yourself believe that it is

Well, I didn't make myself believe it's more accurate. I just watched a few of the pros around here do it against me enough times to start figuring out how and why they do it.

The reason it's more successful is because you're running along that side-rail at a near parallel angle. It's not "more accurate", it creates a greater margin of error since you can now hit directly into the 1-ball OR glance off the side rail and get an identical result.

Since you obviously know the diamond system very well, I suggest adding this kick option to your arsenal. Just practice it for a few minutes and see how it goes. You'll be surprised how often scenarios like these pop up in 9-ball and how it can dramatically improve your chances of making the ball. In this instance, you have a hanger that merely needs to be contacted on the correct side to pocket the ball but there are plenty other scenarios where getting the cueball parallel with the rail on your approach will yield many positive results.

 

[klockdoc]

You guys are nuts. You don't need shape on the 2 - it goes from just about anywhere, even frozen to the long rail, with natural shape on the 3. If you think this forced two railer is more likely than the natural two railer, I wish you gambled at my room.

pj
chgo

Tried both of these shots tonight when down at the pool room. The shot that I explained earlier (2 rails) is makeable, but, the problem that I had with the shot, was when made, the cue ball drifted down the long rail to a postion where the 2 ball could not be made.

I then tried the shot that Jude agreed ( 1 rail off the short rail and it was very easy to make and shapes on the 2 were automatic.

Below is a diagram of the final positon after shooting the 2 railer as I originally diagrammed.

Make your own decision.

I think the 1 railer is the best method to approach this situation.

CueTable Help

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Tried both of these shots tonight when down at the pool room. The shot that I explained earlier (2 rails) is makeable, but, the problem that I had with the shot, was when made, the cue ball drifted down the long rail to a postion where the 2 ball could not be made.

I then tried the shot that Jude agreed ( 1 rail off the short rail and it was very easy to make and shapes on the 2 were automatic.

Below is a diagram of the final positon after shooting the 2 railer as I originally diagrammed.

Make your own decision.

I thinkther 1 railer is the beat method to approach this situation.

CueTable Help

Klockdoc, you made my day! Thank you for taking the time to try it out and I'm glad this thread has contributed to your game!

 

[BPG24]

Well, I didn't make myself believe it's more accurate. I just watched a few of the pros around here do it against me enough times to start figuring out how and why they do it.

The reason it's more successful is because you're running along that side-rail at a near parallel angle. It's not "more accurate", it creates a greater margin of error since you can now hit directly into the 1-ball OR glance off the side rail and get an identical result.

Since you obviously know the diamond system very well, I suggest adding this kick option to your arsenal. Just practice it for a few minutes and see how it goes. You'll be surprised how often scenarios like these pop up in 9-ball and how it can dramatically improve your chances of making the ball. In this instance, you have a hanger that merely needs to be contacted on the correct side to pocket the ball but there are plenty other scenarios where getting the cueball parallel with the rail on your approach will yield many positive results.

i understand what you are saying, but I disagree 100%...
And I have that shot, but why use it if it isnt necessary...\
why would anybody play a shot that is less likely to be executed...
Not even a pro can go 1 rail with inside spin as well as they can go 2 rails with running spin...
common sense

plus the ball isnt bigger 1 rail..... and you will be left with longer shapes if you play it 1 rail

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

i understand what you are saying, but I disagree 100%...
And I have that shot, but why use it if it isnt necessary...\
why would anybody play a shot that is less likely to be executed...
Not even a pro can go 1 rail with inside spin as well as they can go 2 rails with running spin...
common sense

plus the ball isnt bigger 1 rail..... and you will be left with longer shapes if you play it 1 rail

I understand. Try it anyway and see how it goes. If I'm wrong, you lose nothing. If I'm right, it only helps you.

 

[BPG24]

I understand. Try it anyway and see how it goes. If I'm wrong, you lose nothing. If I'm right, it only helps you.

i am confused as to why you would even post this reply, did you not read what I wrote?
Obviously you didn't...

I have played that shot, the way you think is better many times...
I know the shot, and it is not the correct play...

also
why start the thread, and then argue with the people who answer your question... doesn't make much sense

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

i am confused as to why you would even post this reply, did you not read what I wrote?
Obviously you didn't...

I have played that shot, the way you think is better many times...
I know the shot, and it is not the correct play...

also
why start the thread, and then argue with the people who answer your question... doesn't make much sense

No, I read your answer. I just misunderstood what you meant. I thought "that shot" was your shot and frankly, I'm so accustomed to seeing poor sentence structure (not yours necessarily), I overlooked what I thought was a grammatical error.

The reason I started the thread was to discuss pool and to offer insight. This kicking approach is one I learned fairly late and it's helped me out a great deal. I designed the diagram deliberately for this kicking approach AND to allow for alternative approaches and alternative strategies (even placing the 3 & 4 in such a way so that the shooter would be tempted to tie up the balls). In fact, every answer I hoped to get was posted.

My last response to you was not meant to be argumentative. In fact, you can do as you will. It's your game. If you feel you're right, don't change a thing!

 

[Jimmy M.]

You guys are nuts. You don't need shape on the 2 - it goes from just about anywhere, even frozen to the long rail, with natural shape on the 3. If you think this forced two railer is more likely than the natural two railer, I wish you gambled at my room.

pj
chgo

You're probably lucky many of us don't gamble at your room. Or, more than likely, you'd just duck us anyway so whether or not we gambled at your room would be a moot point.

I put something together just for you because - well, I have entirely too much time on my hands, apparently.

Here are 3 videos. Shot 1, the shot that a few of us here happen to like more than your shot, shows what I think would be fairly typical results. Shot 2, the shot you like, shows what I think would also be fairly typical results. I should note that I made both of these shots on the first attempt. Now, shot 3, the shot that I wouldn't even consider, took me 3 attempts and, on the 3rd attempt, you can see that I got lucky and double-kissed the 1-ball in. You still think the 2 can be made from anywhere? You like shooting it from where it landed in shot 2? You must, because that's where you're going to be shooting it from if you take the 2 railer and hit it well (you can tell me that I hit it the wrong speed, but if you hit it softer, you have to put more guess-work into the shot because of the amount the angle will widen out from the softer hit). Your margin of error of where you can hit the 1 going the 2-rail route, and still get position, is very small. Your margin of error for pocketing the ball and still getting position by going the way that I, and a few other people like, is very big by comparison. As you can see, I didn't hit the 1 "exactly" how I wanted in the first shot, yet I have great position. In the second shot, your shot, I hit the ball dead, stinkin' perfect and I don't have position at all! I know you won't learn a thing from this because you already know everything, but I think I clearly showed that we aren't that "nuts" after all.

Shot 1
Shot 2
Shot 3

 

[BPG24]

You're probably lucky many of us don't gamble at your room. Or, more than likely, you'd just duck us anyway so whether or not we gambled at your room would be a moot point.

I put something together just for you because - well, I have entirely too much time on my hands, apparently.

Here are 3 videos. Shot 1, the shot that a few of us here happen to like more than your shot, shows what I think would be fairly typical results. Shot 2, the shot you like, shows what I think would also be fairly typical results. I should note that I made both of these shots on the first attempt. Now, shot 3, the shot that I wouldn't even consider, took me 3 attempts and, on the 3rd attempt, you can see that I got lucky and double-kissed the 1-ball in. You still think the 2 can be made from anywhere? You like shooting it from where it landed in shot 2? You must, because that's where you're going to be shooting it from if you take the 2 railer and hit it well (you can tell me that I hit it the wrong speed, but if you hit it softer, you have to put more guess-work into the shot because of the amount the angle will widen out from the softer hit). Your margin of error of where you can hit the 1 going the 2-rail route, and still get position, is very small. Your margin of error for pocketing the ball and still getting position by going the way that I, and a few other people like, is very big by comparison. As you can see, I didn't hit the 1 "exactly" how I wanted in the first shot, yet I have great position. In the second shot, your shot, I hit the ball dead, stinkin' perfect and I don't have position at all! I know you won't learn a thing from this because you already know everything, but I think I clearly showed that we aren't that "nuts" after all.

Shot 1
Shot 2
Shot 3

TY for the videos,

one huge difference on shot #2 is where you contacted the 1 ball...
if you hit it on the fat side instead of the thin side you will get natural shapes....
you said you made it in one try, and I would have expected that...
But if you watch the videos, notice the contact point, and how different it is in shot #2 compared to the other shots....


I guess I should have said the percectage of the ball... or the contact point relative to the angle of the shot..........
ty again for the videos