How Would You Play This? Safety Time

[tucson9ball]

Quote:


Originally Posted by tucson9ball View Post

This would be my shot also. With the other player already on 2 and the 6/9 botched up for the runout, it's a no brainer.
The ultimate goal is to get the 1 near the end rail and get the cue ball very close to the 5 and 7. You want to make sure not to bump the 5 or 7 and leave an open shot, this would be key.
What is tempting as a good shooter is shooting the 1 off the side of the 9 ball into the corner pocket. This would open up the balls for the runout and put the fear of the pool gods into your opponent A successful runout from here and your opponent may feel a slight tightening of the elbow their next turn at the table...

Orignally posted by Hits em Hard
The problem with leaving the 1 ball near a rail is it makes contact much easier. With that shot the two rail escape is easy.


If you get the cue ball close to the 5/7 there is no 2 rail kick, this is the key. It forces the shooter to shoot away from the ball and toward the other end rail to kick a long ways.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

with the opponent on 2 fouls and me having BIH, I would place whitey about a foot behind the 1b where I could hit the 1b into the long rail just before the side pocket with a tangent line to roll the cue ball right in between the 5-7.

Important is to leave the 1b in space to make for a tougher hit and the speed to roll whitey just into the 5-7 balls for a nice lock-up safety.

best,
brian kc

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

If you get the cue ball close to the 5/7 there is no 2 rail kick, this is the key. It forces the shooter to shoot away from the ball and toward the other end rail to kick a long ways.

Umm, end rail to the right. Coming off to the top left side rail behind the three and the 1 ball is a huge target on the end rail. Sorry but that is an easy two rail kick.

 

[jchance]

Runout!

Another option would be to make the 1 in the corner off the side of the 9, which would also free up the 6 and 9 to attempt a runout

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Push the one to the side rail so it between the rail and 8 ball while freezing the cue ball to the 8.

I like this CM but there is the 2 rail under the 4b escape, albeit jacked up. You could try to get the angle just right where the 8b will cover the 1b from that escape angle, as well.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I'd play the one softly to the rail in the bottom of the layout and roll up softly on the eight for a bunch of reasons?

-It's natural and easy.
-It has a relatively large margin for error.
-All of the common kick angles are removed.
-If, by some miracle a hit is made, the likely direction for the hit is to bring the one back toward the 9/6 cluster.
-The most likely pocket for a miracle shot is by the 9/6 and it is highly unlikely that the 3 will be visible after.

Everything stated here is precisely what I was thinking. It's the easiest safety available and it happens to be the best one. The 6/9 blocks the easy 1-rail kick. The 7 blocks the long 1-rail kick. This leaves two options. The first is jacking-up over the 8 and kicking toward the upper right corner. You'll need some speed since you're likely to be going 3 rails and pray you don't jump the cue-ball right off the table. The other option is to kick toward the bottom left corner with left spin and hope to double the rail but as you said, the bottom right corner pocket then comes into play.

The lesson learned is this - when faced with several options for a safety, if one is VERY predictable, it's important to measure its value. You have the advantage of knowing with a high degree of accuracy what you'll be leaving your opponent and can review their kick options. That alone gives this option more weight than anything else. Yes, a good player could probably nestle that cue-ball between the 5/7 but if he comes up short at all, he may get the safe but he may be leaving an easy kick.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I like this CM but there is the 2 rail under the 4b escape, albeit jacked up. You could try to get the angle just right where the 8b will cover the 1b from that escape angle, as well.

After the match, I tried this kick. In the actual game, she ended up leaving the cue ball frozen to the 8 and the 1 was frozen to the other side. This required going three rails instead of two since one side was hidden. That's a lot of speed given you're jacked-up and probably jumping that cue-ball a little. You basically have to masse into the correct angle, hope you don't hop and pray for rail, assuming you make contact.

 

[Spimp13]

Jude, I have done plenty of coaching on players in APA in the past years on a wide range of skill level. You left that out here. Is this APA and what is her skill level? If it is APA I would coach differently depending on the skill level and the score. If it is not APA and we are coaching for a 3 foul which sounds like it might be loss of game I would coach it potentially differently than an APA coach. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

While leaving such an easy two rail kick there? That's the shot you chose to have them play? Sorry but you also forgot to include their opponent has no clue how to kick.

First, it's not that easy of a two-rail kick when you're jacked-up and second, you're assuming the 1-ball is going to be on the rail. It doesn't have to be.

Seriously, give both the safety and the kick a try. You'll be amazed by how easy it is to eliminate the 2-rail kick too.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, I have done plenty of coaching on players in APA in the past years on a wide range of skill level. You left that out here. Is this APA and what is her skill level? If it is APA I would coach differently depending on the skill level and the score. If it is not APA and we are coaching for a 3 foul which sounds like it might be loss of game I would coach it potentially differently than an APA coach. Just my 2 cents.

This was not APA. We're playing standard 9-ball and my player is a C+.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

First, it's not that easy of a two-rail kick when you're jacked-up and second, you're assuming the 1-ball is going to be on the rail. It doesn't have to be.

Seriously, give both the safety and the kick a try. You'll be amazed by how easy it is to eliminate the 2-rail kick too.

If the 1 is left anywhere but frozen, yes it is quite easy. Even when the 1 is frozen all the cue ball has to do is hit that rail and it's still a good hit. But like you just said, the person you were coaching is a C+ player. Which means they were probably playing someone near their skill level. Which means you coached down to the level of the opponent.

 

[Spimp13]

This was not APA. We're playing standard 9-ball and my player is a C+.

Thank you...I agree with the coach then in this instance. Nice job!

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

If the 1 is left anywhere but frozen, yes it is quite easy. Even when the 1 is frozen all the cue ball has to do is hit that rail and it's still a good hit. But like you just said, the person you were coaching is a C+ player. Which means they were probably playing someone near their skill level. Which means you coached down to the level of the opponent.

http://www.billiardsthegame.com/btg...0|490,280|490,300|490,320|490,340|490,360|490

This is easy?

Oops, wrong layout. Use this one.

 

[MVPCues]

Good thread Jude.

I like Hits em Hard's choice a little better than mine for his given reasons. I think the speed is probably easier to judge and more natural on the nestle than mine.

Jude, you said the cue ball and the one were both tight on the eight. That was certainly a good execution. While that does all but eliminate the 2 rail kick (have to hit an edge or drive a ball to a rail after the rebound contact like you stated), the fact that both balls were tight on the eight means if the C+ player hit a tad harder the 1 may have moved the eight and been visible. Speed of cloth and player would come into play for this shot if I were coaching. That probably goes without saying, of course.

 

[DaveK]

Everything stated here is precisely what I was thinking. It's the easiest safety available and it happens to be the best one. .....
.....

The lesson learned is this - when faced with several options for a safety, if one is VERY predictable, it's important to measure its value. ...

It seems to me that one drawback is that this is a very gentle shot, moving the OB perhaps a foot and the CB perhaps 3 inches. My experience is that C players have difficulty with that level of finesse. The shot I proposed is also very predictable, and benefits from a slightly firmer stroke IMO.

Dave

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

It seems to me that one drawback is that this is a very gentle shot, moving the OB perhaps a foot and the CB perhaps 3 inches. My experience is that C players have difficulty with that level of finesse. The shot I proposed is also very predictable, and benefits from a slightly firmer stroke IMO.

Dave

Like I said, give both the safety and the 2/3 rail kick a whirl. You'll be surprised by how little finesse it takes to nail the safety and how much stroke it requires to get a legal hit.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Good thread Jude.

I like Hits em Hard's choice a little better than mine for his given reasons. I think the speed is probably easier to judge and more natural on the nestle than mine.

Jude, you said the cue ball and the one were both tight on the eight. That was certainly a good execution. While that does all but eliminate the 2 rail kick (have to hit an edge or drive a ball to a rail after the rebound contact like you stated), the fact that both balls were tight on the eight means if the C+ player hit a tad harder the 1 may have moved the eight and been visible. Speed of cloth and player would come into play for this shot if I were coaching. That probably goes without saying, of course.

Because the 1-ball isn't moving very fast and likely rebounding directly into the 8, the likelihood of dislodging the safety is extremely minimal. You'd basically have to completely botch the shot in order for that to happen. A small bump should keep the cluster intact.

 

[DaveK]

Like I said, give both the safety and the 2/3 rail kick a whirl. You'll be surprised by how little finesse it takes to nail the safety and how much stroke it requires to get a legal hit.

:lol: I've played a bit before ... once or twice :wink:

Dave <-- has seen many C players over-hit (and rarely under-hit) tiny safety shots

 

[tucson9ball]

Because the 1-ball isn't moving very fast and likely rebounding directly into the 8, the likelihood of dislodging the safety is extremely minimal. You'd basically have to completely botch the shot in order for that to happen. A small bump should keep the cluster intact.

Jude,

Sounds like you knew the players ability very well, good coaching. :thumbup:

 

[Black-Balled]

Push the one to the side rail so it between the rail and 8 ball while freezing the cue ball to the 8.

I like that too.

As they say, keep it simple, stupid.