How would you play this? Tough leave on the 6

[azbluemach1]

FWIW:

CueTable Help

6 ball could go, or get pushed up table. Only real danger here is getting the 6 to the rail before the pocket (over-cutting it) which would be a sell out.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

FWIW:

CueTable Help

6 ball could go, or get pushed up table. Only real danger here is getting the 6 to the rail before the pocket (over-cutting it) which would be a sell out.

I cannot tell you how anxious I would be if I saw my opponent cuing up for this shot. I mean, I would have to consciously remind myself to wait until they were done shooting before I got up and won the game.

 

[uwate]

FWIW:

CueTable Help

6 ball could go, or get pushed up table. Only real danger here is getting the 6 to the rail before the pocket (over-cutting it) which would be a sell out.

Are you serious? You would actually try this shot in a game that meant something? If the answer is yes, do you like to gamble at pool?

 

[Steve Lipsky]

I cannot tell you how anxious I would be if I saw my opponent cuing up for this shot. I mean, I would have to consciously remind myself to wait until they were done shooting before I got up and won the game.

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

 

[azbluemach1]

I cannot tell you how anxious I would be if I saw my opponent cuing up for this shot. I mean, I would have to consciously remind myself to wait until they were done shooting before I got up and won the game.

Jude - you might just find yourself seated longer than you thought. The side pocket is FREAKING HUGE with the 6 sitting there, and you could miss your spot by +- 1.5 diamonds and still make that ball.

At least my shot was a 2 way shot - your just pissed that you didn't think of it first. lol

 

[azbluemach1]

Are you serious? You would actually try this shot in a game that meant something? If the answer is yes, do you like to gamble at pool?

Uwate - Gamble? Nah, I dont gamble on pool. Buying 1500 of Goldman Sachs at 160 on 8/15 was a gamble. Playing internet woofers $500 sets isn't gambling. LOL

Actually, Jude, I am going to be in your neck of the woods next month. Maybe we could set that shot up and Ill shoot it for say 500$ a shot as many times as your game?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Uwate - Gamble? Nah, I dont gamble on pool. Buying 1500 of Goldman Sachs at 160 on 8/15 was a gamble. Playing internet woofers $500 sets isn't gambling. LOL

Actually, Jude, I am going to be in your neck of the woods next month. Maybe we could set that shot up and Ill shoot it for say 500$ a shot as many times as your game?

You think I was born yesterday, huh? Yes, give you a week to find out exactly the speed and spin necessary to make a shot where in competition, you only get 20 seconds to decide and one chance to execute.

How about we just play for the $500?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Uwate - Gamble? Nah, I dont gamble on pool. Buying 1500 of Goldman Sachs at 160 on 8/15 was a gamble. Playing internet woofers $500 sets isn't gambling. LOL

Actually, Jude, I am going to be in your neck of the woods next month. Maybe we could set that shot up and Ill shoot it for say 500$ a shot as many times as your game?

With all due respect and minus the woofing, I look forward to you stopping by Amsterdam Billiards and would like to meet you. Seriously, we can set up the shot and discuss it. I think, once you see things from my perspective, you'll know why I would never consider this shot.

 

[azbluemach1]

Jude - I will try to get up there when I am in town. Which location do you frequent? I have only been to the one over by 72nd (or so?)?

In the meantime:

1.) Mine was the only 2 way shot posted.
2.) My shot's margin for error is HUGE on both speed and direction. IF you miss the 6 ball, you have an extra rail of coverage on the long side for both the ob and cb.
3.) My shot puts the cue ball closer to the blocker(s), while all of the other options in this thread put the object ball closer to the blocker. Having the cb tied up, imho is far superior to tying up the ob.

Why is this result:

CueTable Help

Superior to this result (which assumes the 6 did not go and got pushed up the table). ?

CueTable Help

Isn't it MUCH easier to safe back with the first one?

CueTable Help

Where as my shot lets the opponent kick at the ball, but is a MUCH harder resafe?

Am I just not getting something here?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude - I will try to get up there when I am in town. Which location do you frequent? I have only been to the one over by 72nd (or so?)?

In the meantime:

1.) Mine was the only 2 way shot posted.
2.) My shot's margin for error is HUGE on both speed and direction. IF you miss the 6 ball, you have an extra rail of coverage on the long side for both the ob and cb.
3.) My shot puts the cue ball closer to the blocker(s), while all of the other options in this thread put the object ball closer to the blocker. Having the cb tied up, imho is far superior to tying up the ob.



Where as my shot lets the opponent kick at the ball, but is a MUCH harder resafe?

Am I just not getting something here?

There's only one location now: 4th Avenue & 11th Street (former Corner Billiards location)


The underlying problem with kicking is that it brings several variables into play. There are inherent risks that are simply unnecessary simply because you can see the entire ball as it stands. You have options here which are going to be far more predictable than any kick.

If the object ball is near the first rail, it's an entirely different story. No matter how familiar you are with the table, you can get a fairly accurate assessment on where you will make contact. However, when you start getting into multi-rail scenarios, you're talking about accuracy only experienced 3-cushion players are expected to accomplish.

 

[uwate]

I think you are not calculating something crucial here. The chances of you executing your shot and ending with that result are FAR less than the other shot. Don't believe me? Set it up and try it out. Woofing about your 75k in paper profits on GS doesnt make your shot any more higher percentage.

I cannot see how you think a two rail kick shot is a better shot than one where you can shoot right at the ball and execute with reliable %.

*edited to cut out the useless woofing*

 

[Masayoshi]

would anybody jack up to jump the 6 into the corner and the cue out of the side? i might if i had a big enough lead. if not id try to bank the 6 past the 7 (if it passes) and leave the cueball on the short side of the 7 just in case the 6 misses. if it doesnt pass, i think id kick to the bottom rail and left and try to pocket the 6 with a rail first, if it misses, there is a good chance ill leave a tough shot or even a hook.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

These types of diagrams have always been a good learning tool and I believe educational for all. Jude Rosenstock usually comes up with some good ones and he has me now looking for opportunities to diagram one whenever I am playing pool.

This happened to me in a tournament match at a local tavern yesterday. My opponenet Sh, ooops, got lucky after he missed and left me this shot on the 6 ball. What would you do to get out of this situation....

CueTable Help

I asked Louis Ulrich almost the same question, I guess he is a little busy.

My question is, what if that's the money ball (9-ball) you needed to shoot?

Will you still play safety, or take the chance of banking from the opposite short rail to hit the 9-ball into the side pocket/corner pocket?

 

[RascalDoc]

Oh damn, I loved it when I see those. but I've lost my windowxp PC and now i'm using LINUX and can't see them. Any linux user can help me out? Some friends of mine said that it is impossible to run Shockweave player in linux, is it true? If so. thats horrible imo.

I cant see it in Firefox eiother. Have to run IE to see it and I dont normally run IE ....

 

[azbluemach1]

I think you are not calculating something crucial here. The chances of you executing your shot and ending with that result are FAR less than the other shot. Don't believe me? Set it up and try it out. Woofing about your 75k in paper profits on GS doesnt make your shot any more higher percentage.

I cannot see how you think a two rail kick shot is a better shot than one where you can shoot right at the ball and execute with reliable %.

*edited to cut out the useless woofing*

1.) "Paper profits" infers that I didn't sell at 210.

2.) The fact that you are calling this a 2 rail kick shows that you didn't look at the shot as I diagrammed it or you just don't get it. It is a 3 rail kick, which makes the 6 ball HUGE. the 6 balls proximity to the pocket makes the pocket HUGE.

3.) I did not quote the trade to say that I am a good player. I quoted the trade because it speaks to risk tolerance. I simply do not think that is a high risk shot, due to the angles involved and the pocket proximity. Buying a stock (on margin) that has fallen like a stone over 4 days when the media is against it with no technical support in sight is a GAMBLE. A 3 rail kick with +- 1.5 diamond contact area for a make or a safe is easy money in my book.

4.) I didn't start any woofing on this thread - Your the one who scoffed at the shot as I posted it and tried to imply that I was some sorta chump. Lets put it this way - I would bet that YOU could execute that shot and get a favorable outcome over 70% of the time. In fact, I would be $500 that you could make the shot as diagrammed, because it would be worth the 500 to post up video of you missing a natural kick like that.

You and Jude are quoting a style of play that is very conservative, which I generally agree with. I happen to believe it is the wrong strategy in this case because I feel the kick is more forgiving for both line and speed.

I still think it is the right shot.

 

[uwate]

From the sounds of it, you do know alot about financial markets. You sound like an intelligent guy too, so all I'm asking you is to go ahead and try out the two shots a few times. See for yourself how easy it is for you to miss the 6 entirely trying to go three rails. Going off all those rails means you have to be certain about the rails, is the cloth new or old, are the table conditions wet or dry, does the table itself bank short or long. There are alot of conditions to consider, just to make a good hit, let alone a hit where you are coming off a rail and trying to thin a ball into a half a pocket. Shooting straight at a ball means you know you are going to make a good hit. I will say that the same table conditions that affect the ability to kick come into play with the 6 bouncing around the table, but at the very least you can easily follow the cueball down to the endrail.

Just try the shots out a few times. If you find that the three rail kick yields a better result than honestly it is something that you yourself have an edge on most players good and bad. The kick you diagrammed is an intimidating shot for A players versus the other shot. I think if you polled 10 great players, all ten would not choose your shot. You don't have to argue your side here, just go out there and test the validity of your assumptions yourself.

 

[uwate]

would anybody jack up to jump the 6 into the corner and the cue out of the side? i might if i had a big enough lead. if not id try to bank the 6 past the 7 (if it passes) and leave the cueball on the short side of the 7 just in case the 6 misses. if it doesnt pass, i think id kick to the bottom rail and left and try to pocket the 6 with a rail first, if it misses, there is a good chance ill leave a tough shot or even a hook.

Raul Alvarez, a local shortstop down here in Miami, shot this exact shot your propose double hill on the nineball. He was a bit closer to the nine and it also had a good knowledge of the table. The player he shot it against was doing exactly what Jude described earlier...trying to hold himself back from jumping before the shot was over to take his turn and win the game. He was pretty stunned when the nine flew into the corner warp speed and the cueball hit the lip of the side pocket and bounced out onto the table.

 

[poolplayer2093]

These types of diagrams have always been a good learning tool and I believe educational for all. Jude Rosenstock usually comes up with some good ones and he has me now looking for opportunities to diagram one whenever I am playing pool.

This happened to me in a tournament match at a local tavern yesterday. My opponenet Sh, ooops, got lucky after he missed and left me this shot on the 6 ball. What would you do to get out of this situation....

CueTable Help

you said tavern. is that a bar table with the bigger cueball?

 

[philw]

I cannot tell you how anxious I would be if I saw my opponent cuing up for this shot. I mean, I would have to consciously remind myself to wait until they were done shooting before I got up and won the game.

lol My thoughts almost exactly. Why would anyone create more of a problem than already exists. Thats a nice trick shot but no reason to risk selling out. Philw

 

[Nick B]

Jude - I will try to get up there when I am in town. Which location do you frequent? I have only been to the one over by 72nd (or so?)?

In the meantime:

1.) Mine was the only 2 way shot posted.
2.) My shot's margin for error is HUGE on both speed and direction. IF you miss the 6 ball, you have an extra rail of coverage on the long side for both the ob and cb.
3.) My shot puts the cue ball closer to the blocker(s), while all of the other options in this thread put the object ball closer to the blocker. Having the cb tied up, imho is far superior to tying up the ob.

Why is this result:

CueTable Help

Superior to this result (which assumes the 6 did not go and got pushed up the table). ?

CueTable Help

Isn't it MUCH easier to safe back with the first one?

CueTable Help

Where as my shot lets the opponent kick at the ball, but is a MUCH harder resafe?

Am I just not getting something here?

I have to agree (STRONGLY AGREE) with Jude. His shot is "text book" and can come out "just ok" and he's still looking better than 50% in his favor. Your shot only has one good result. All other options come out ugly. To thick = Sell Out. To Thin = Sellout. Hit the Point = Sell Out. Miss it = You Lose.


Here's the deal. Your cold. Have not played yet and your playing on a strange table. Your opponent snapped of 2 racks and your up to shot. Which would you rather shoot?

You execute your option PERFECTLY and I'm going to hit at ball 1 or 2 rails and take my chances with a 50/50 possibility.

Nick