How would you play this?

Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
Set up: hill-hill against a strong opponent. He just played safe and left you this, but the 5 didn't land quite the way he intended.

Facts:
* There's about 1/8" between CB and 5.
* The combo isn't quite dead; merely contacting the 5 ball does not guarantee the 9 will drop rather than rattle.
* You can count on your opponent to run out if you were to break up the 5 and 9 and leave him a shot on the 5, without tying anything else up.
* EDIT: The table's playing very short.

Here's the layout:

CueTable Help



I did win the match, for the record.

-Andrew
 
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i'd prefer to tap the 9 into the 5 and have the 5 sit on the rail, one diamond to teh right of where it is now. yeah, you said the guy could runout what's left, but even for a strong player with ball in hand, making that 5 all the way down the rail in the far corner pocket and getting position on the 6 is no easy task.
 
2_Fast_4_Fleas said:
soft hit the 9 between the cushion and the 9 make it imposssible to make the 9 and force him to play safe again.... now with him playing safe you might have a opportunity to make 9, play safe back, or pocket 5. depends on how he plays. but at least you have another opportunity at the table instead of having a low percentage good hit safe or low percentage offensive shot with what he left you at the moment
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So to be clear, you're suggesting nudging the 9 to leave this:

CueTable Help



-Andrew
 
Too great a risk to turn the rock loose for a legit hit. Your best bet is a foul. Soft hit the 9 to the left side...CB to the long rail. If executed correctly, he'll have to play safe.

downside is, he'll have ball in hand to play safe with. And if he's any good, he will just tie you up again.

Alternative shot may be to thin hit the 9 on the right, and send the CB to the top short rail. Risky, as this may push the 5 up enough to get a ball in hand CB in there for a shot.

The pros of this would be freezing the 9 on the long rail, and not leaving a makeble shot on the five...

If the combo wasn't so close, you could even scratch, and let him deal with it...but the 9 may be close enough to be "thrown" in...

I opt for scenario #1 in your case...the risk of sending the CB up table is too risky in a hill-hill situation.
 
Andrew Manning said:
So to be clear, you're suggesting nudging the 9 to leave this:

CueTable Help



-Andrew
Click to expand...

I don't like this play. Giving up ball in hand by nudging the nine is almost 100% to leave either a shot on the five, a simple carom in of the nine using the five first or a simple safe that will tie you up just as tight as now. Letting good players play simple safeties with the ball in hand is not a good play when you have a very realistic chance to make a good hit. The two-rail kick, top rail first, just isn't that tough here.
 
sjm said:
I like the soft two-rail kick to the top rail first, which could hook back, or leave no shot on the five if executed accurately. It's a soft hit withmaximum right english, as follows:

CueTable Help

Click to expand...
I agree. If you miss short three rails could go
 
2_Fast_4_Fleas said:
not like that you left the nine being able to pocket by carom
Click to expand...

I can't really picture where you're talking about putting the 9-ball. You're giving up ball in hand, so you have to make sure you don't leave room to make the 5, or he'll run out, and you have to make sure you don't leave a carom or a combo. Seems very tricky not to sell out any of those options.

-Andrew
 
2_Fast_4_Fleas said:
ok well when you kick it i hope your killing it because that 9 isnt going far from the pocket. comming back to hit the 5 or jawing up in the hole then you have your oponnent carom'ing or combo'ing on you if you hit it 3 rails on that shot with thin hit carom. hit it solid combo. if you miss it then combo. if he hits it thin on 3 railer and luckily the 9 is unmakable then he has side bank with triple insurance....hit it perfect he is out, hit it long between the side and 8 it goes under the six and safe, hit it longer and it goes off the 8, hit it short and it goes 2 rails safe..just my thoughts...
Click to expand...

Very good post. Many bad things can happen on this kick, but the point is that a lot of good things can happen, too. That's why giving up ball in hand to a good player is wrong here.
 
Njhustler1 said:
i was thinkin more along the lines of this leave.

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

This won't work. A good player can not only make the five in the corner from the short side, but he/she can carom in the nine by going thin off the five, and can easily combo the 5-9 by aiming the five into the rail a little. At a high level of play, these are all routine. Against a weak player, this shot has more merit, but the initial post indicates that opponent is a strong player.
 
Andrew Manning said:
Set up: hill-hill against a strong opponent. He just played safe and left you this, but the 5 didn't land quite the way he intended.

Facts:
* There's about 1/8" between CB and 5.
* The combo isn't quite dead; merely contacting the 5 ball does not guarantee the 9 will drop rather than rattle.
* You can count on your opponent to run out if you were to break up the 5 and 9 and leave him a shot on the 5, without tying anything else up.
* EDIT: The table's playing very short.

Here's the layout:

CueTable Help



I did win the match, for the record.

-Andrew
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, but is the part I underlined and bolded correct? I don't get it.
 
sjm said:
Good catch. My interpretation was that this was the distance between the five and the nine.
Click to expand...

I see. After looking at the rest of the thread, I assumed that was what was intended.

My first inclination was to play a safety by locking up the 5-ball as was mentioned before, but the more I think about it SJMs' idea seems best.
 
I can't really picture where you're talking about putting the 9-ball. You're giving up ball in hand, so you have to make sure you don't leave room to make the 5, or he'll run out, and you have to make sure you don't leave a carom or a combo. Seems very tricky not to sell out any of those options.
Click to expand...

I think you may be biased by the fact that you got lucky with the kick. I agree it's a pretty high percentage hit on the 5, but I don't think it's high percentage to get out or get safe with it.

I think the high percentage shot for staying alive another inning is to nudge the 9 very slightly out of line without giving up the carom (as others have suggested).

Nice shot, by the way; must have demoralized your opponent.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I think you may be biased by the fact that you got lucky with the kick. I agree it's a pretty high percentage hit on the 5, but I don't think it's high percentage to get out or get safe with it.

I think the high percentage shot for staying alive another inning is to nudge the 9 very slightly out of line without giving up the carom (as others have suggested).

Nice shot, by the way; must have demoralized your opponent.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I'd go with nudging it out of line and giving up ball in hand. Kicking at it is a possibility, but as it was stated in the beginning, because of the way it's lined up, and the balls aren't touching, it could go or it could rattle in the jaws. I don't know about a lot of you guys but I tend to not take a chance on balls that "might" go. I'd rather be 100% sure it's going and find out I was wrong than think it might go and end up finding out it wouldn't. In a situation like this, contacting the 5 isn't the problem, it's if that 9 will go or not. As for giving BIH to a strong player that means absolutely nothing. You have to do the best that you can do to get yourself back to the table. Winging at that "might go" shot isn't the best way to do that. Nudging them out of line and giving up BIH is the way to go. Worst he can do is play safe again, and that means you're coming back to the table. I wouldn't take a winger on any shot until I was on 2 fouls.

Now, since we're talking strength of game, and since everyone here always seems to get out, make fantastic shots, and can do things mere mortals can't think of, how about this one. Control the speed of the bank on the 6 and roll it up behind the 9-5. Or bank that 7 across table in front of them. Hey, if you have the nuts to kick 2 rails at a "might go" ball then what would be so out of line with the banks to block both of them?
MULLY
I'd nudge out of line though
 
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BTW, let me state another reason I would go with the nudge. The cue ball is right there next to the 9-ball and from that distance you can control that 110%. Now, if I was a lot further from the ball I might try something different, but that close to it, you're guaranteed to get the safe.
MULLY
Oh yeah, unless your kicking is excellent you also stand the chance of coming off that third rail before the 5 and hitting the 5 in just the right spot that the 9 goes and the cue ball rolls right over into that other corner pocket.
 
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