How would you play this?

[renard]

Game: 8-ball, VNEA rules, team 25 game format

Situation: The last two games are being played side by side with my team down 13 balls. My opponent used a semi safety break and choose solids. Many clusters and safeties later this was the lay of a fast table, I am stripes.

P.S. In about 6 or so posts I’ll show you what I did and why. I lost this game and we lost this match. I still believe I did the right thing but I wanted to pull from the Azer forum wisdom...

 

[kyle]

I think I'd duck behind the 14.

 

[Williebetmore]

I would try to duck off the 10 ball, behind the 8 ball. Very delicate, straight pool type safety. You could easily sell out or scratch.

Another alternative would be to play off the ten, sending cue ball up to the head rail. If you can freeze him up there, it could at least be a tough shot (oops... these are 7 foot tables...nevermind the "leave him tough" strategies, you need to snooker him).

 

[fred_in_hoboken]

Game: 8-ball, VNEA rules, team 25 game format

Situation: The last two games are being played side by side with my team down 13 balls. My opponent used a semi safety break and choose solids. Many clusters and safeties later this was the lay of a fast table, I am stripes.

P.S. In about 6 or so posts I’ll show you what I did. I lost this game and we lost this match. I still believe I did the right thing but I wanted to pull from the Azer forum wisdom...

The first options I'd consider are Kyle's and this one:

* Depending on how close the 10 is to the side pocket, I'd freeze the 8 on the rail, just past the point and take the foul.

What are the VNEA rules? Could you sink the 8 ball, take the loss, and be one ball back instead of two? That seems drastic though.

 

[renard]

The first options I'd consider are Kyle's and this one:

* Depending on how close the 10 is to the side pocket, I'd freeze the 8 on the rail, just past the point and take the foul.

What are the VNEA rules? Could you sink the 8 ball, take the loss, and be one ball back instead of two? That seems drastic though.

Vnea rules are ball-in-hand rules basically the same as APA-BCA in most respects.

In this match every ball is worth a point and the 8-ball worth three. If you win you would get 10 points. So for example if I were to win the game I have proposed here point wise I would have won 10 to 6. We were down by 13 ball margin so every point was desperately needed. Also if you sink the 8 out of turn in 8ball you lose.

Your right that would be drastic...like falling on your sword

 

[fred_in_hoboken]

Vnea rules are ball-in-hand rules basically the same as APA-BCA in most respects.

In this match every ball is worth a point and the 8-ball worth three. If you win you would get 10 points. So for example if I were to win the game I have proposed here point wise I would have won 10 to 6. We were down by 13 ball margin so every point was desperately needed. Also if you sink the 8 out of turn in 8ball you lose.

Your right that would be drastic...like falling on your sword

So if you pot the 8 ball, you lose 9-5. If your opponent runs out, you lose 10-5?

 

[renard]

So if you pot the 8 ball, you lose 9-5. If your opponent runs out, you lose 10-5?

I would lose 10-5 in both accounts

 

[sixpack]

Game: 8-ball, VNEA rules, team 25 game format

Situation: The last two games are being played side by side with my team down 13 balls. My opponent used a semi safety break and choose solids. Many clusters and safeties later this was the lay of a fast table, I am stripes.

P.S. In about 6 or so posts I’ll show you what I did and why. I lost this game and we lost this match. I still believe I did the right thing but I wanted to pull from the Azer forum wisdom...

I'd probably duck behind the 14 as well, but if I felt like trying to get out (which I usually do ) I would play the 14 rail-first with inside, then the 10 in the same corner and the eight in the bottom right corner.

If I felt like playing the way I did last night, I'd bank the 10 cross-side and get the double kiss, sending the cueball to the top left pocket and the 8 into the top right pocket just to make sure.

Cheers,
RC

 

[TATE]

The obvious safes are pretty risky to sell out.

I would prefer to just leave a really difficult shot/difficult safe for my opponent and take my chances from there.

I would thin the 14 with left spin and send the cue ball back three rails to the headrail. If I get lucky, the 14 might block the shot.

START(
%AO3K7%H[4Y2%JY2Z5%NC9S0%PY1Q1×T1%VW9Q2%WJ5Z6%XD0T4%Yj2D5
%ZK1Z9%[r2H3%\k4D3%_I2M4%`G2M4%aD9Q8
)END

 

[sjm]

The obvious safes are pretty risky to sell out.

I would prefer to just leave a really difficult shot/difficult safe for my opponent and take my chances from there.

I would thin the 14 with left spin and send the cue ball back three rails to the headrail. If I get lucky, the 14 might block the shot.

START(
%AO3K7%H[4Y2%JY2Z5%NC9S0%PY1Q1×T1%VW9Q2%WJ5Z6%XD0T4%Yj2D5
%ZK1Z9%[r2H3%\k4D3%_I2M4%`G2M4%aD9Q8
)END

My thoughts exactly. That's how I'm playing it, too.

 

[Matt_24]

Tate chose the shot. Give it a little pinch of left and soft spin the cue ball three rails. It is natural. You win the game off that shot.

But...I can't tell if the 10 is able to be cut in. If so, then it is natural to cut it in and you naturally come back for the 14. If it is makeable then that is the shot.

 

[sodapopd]

Why not just thin the fourteen, put the cue ball on the rail and hook 'em w/the fourteen.

START(
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%ZC7U4%eA8a7
)END

 

[CaptiveBred]

Why not just thin the fourteen, put the cue ball on the rail and hook 'em w/the fourteen.

This is the best choice, IMO. It is the simplist to execute and thats how the game is played... by the percentages...

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Okay, I'm not even sure I would play what I'm about to describe but it would be my top consideration.

I would try and bank the 10-ball into the cross-side using bottom-left to kill the angle on the 10-ball. I'd like it even more if I knew that I could avoid the double-kiss while missing the eight on the rebound. You need a ton of left and it has to be hit with a fairly soft stroke. Frankly, it's a specialty shot but it gives you a chance to win while moving the cue-ball into an unfavorable position for solids.

The key behind my shot is the inside-spin. It allows me to hit the 10 thinner than I normally while maintaining the proper bank-angle. The greenlight on this choice rests on avoiding the double-kiss.

START(
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%\Y5[1%eA4b3
)END

 

[walt]

It looks to me like you can shorten up this cross-side bank on the 10 hitting it at warp speed with high inside. Your cue ball will force to the long rail for 1 or 2-rail shape on the 14 depending on your stroke, but either way you're out from there. If I had a chance to make that shot I would play it over a safety.

I think you're better off playing the 10 ball whether you play offense or defense, because it's in a lousy spot and you want to move it for your next turn. You could play a drag shot off the right side of it and try to leave the cue ball on the foot rail next to the 14 on the left side, you might even nudge the 14 off the rail between the cue and the 1. Just leaving the cue on the rail tilts the odds in your favor if you move the 10 to the middle of the table.

 

[renard]

Well this is what I did. I played the double kiss that willebetmore suggested with these results. My opponent then kicked 1 rail and made the 1-ball. It was a fast table and I felt real confident with this safe as I have used it in one hole before.

My reason for trying this shot was two fold. First and formost I wanted to play a safe where my opponent couldnt directly see his ball. Secondly I wanted the 10 ball in a better position to enhance my chances of running out.

 

[renard]

For the life of me guys I never thought of going off the 14 ball in the way you all are describing. That is a good play as well.

This guy I was playing was by far shooting better than anyone in the tournament. He's a great all-around player but I never expected him to kick that ball in!

 

[sjm]

Well this is what I did. I played the double kiss that willebetmore suggested with these results. My opponent then kicked 1 rail and made the 1-ball. It was a fast table and I felt real confident with this safe as I have used it in one hole before.

My reason for trying this shot was two fold. First and formost I wanted to play a safe where my opponent couldnt directly see his ball. Secondly I wanted the 10 ball in a better position to enhance my chances of running out.

Nice shot, Renard. A great example of how the percentages are altered by what a player has in his bag of tricks. Your command of this safety, derived from your one pocket play, made this shot a good percentage for you. I simply would not feel confident that I coud execute this safe with any consistency. Three rails off the fourteen, obviously, has a huge amount of room for error.

The one point I disagree with you on, however, is that I don't feel it is important to improve the position of the ten here. I'd argue that improving the position of the fourteen is more valuable in this layout, and the three rail safe off of the fourteen accomplishes this.

Great shot and a great thread. You were most unfortunate to lose this rack.

 

[renard]

Nice shot, Renard. A great example of how the percentages are altered by what a player has in his bag of tricks. Your command of this safety, derived from your one pocket play, made this shot a good percentage for you. I simply would not feel confident that I coud execute this safe with any consistency. Three rails off the fourteen, obviously, has a huge amount of room for error.

The one point I disagree with you on, however, is that I don't feel it is important to improve the position of the ten here. I'd argue that improving the position of the fourteen is more valuable in this layout, and the three rail safe off of the fourteen accomplishes this.

Great shot and a great thread. You were most unfortunate to lose this rack.

Thanks SJM,
Sometimes you just know a shot will work, although I thought the cue would stop sooner.

You might be right on the repositioning of the 14 over the 10-ball. My theory was after his kick attempt the cue would be travelling in the general direction of the 14 ball for a possible shot. Both balls are somewhat limited for getting that good position on.

Heck the way this guy was shooting he would have probably made anything I gave him anyway!!!

 

[GADawg]

Why not just thin the fourteen, put the cue ball on the rail and hook 'em w/the fourteen.

START(
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%ZC7U4%eA8a7
)END

I think this is the ticket. If you're good and lucky, he's snookered behind the 14. If not, he still has a not too wasy cut or bank from the rail.