How would you play this?

I think another reason I had to draw it besides fear of hitting the 8, is it's on track to hit the nipple of the side pocket if I basically just stun it. But it probably was possible to avoid both if I just hit it better.

Pletho: I was playing 9 ball... so maybe I shouldn't have left the 5 on the table haha. I only drew it to show it was in a nice spot to do pretty much whatever I wanted with the 6... play shape on it or run into it.

Acura & Okie: I did have a good angle to run into them. Maybe I should have. That's what okie's suggesting. 1 rail was natural, but 2 rails, I'm not 100% sure I'll even hit them. But if I do, okie's right, I need to favor the low side of the cluster, to make sure I don't hook myself.

The reason I don't like going into them, is I don't like unpredictable outcomes. I'd rather play shape and have a definite shot into the side, then run into it and it's a tossup if I have a shot. Plus I might get really screwed like the cb ducks behind the 8 and hooks me.

Hits'emHard: I see what you're saying, and I think that's what chris suggested earlier. But that's pretty tight position. Being stuck on the rail and then having to go around the table at high speed would be a real tester. If I fall a few inches short I am straight in my run is done. A few inches long and I'm halfway hooked by the 8 and the shot becomes impossible anyway.
 
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Okie said:
I agree if the line you used to get to point A is the red line then that would be a bad choice. But if you used a line like the green line I doubt you could go wrong. Love this stuff!

I have a 78 year old pool playing buddy. My favorite saying of his goes as follows: "He got out and he shot all the wrong shots!".
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I love the "he got out and he shot all the wrong shots!" quote. I'm pretty sure I am still doing that far too often. Diagrams and discussion as what is contained in this thread helps me move further away from being self-described by the quote from the "78 year old pool playing buddy" referred to in this response. :wink:
 
The 65 year old with 4 years of experience that I have been helping can't get out because he always chooses at least one 'wrong' shot & kills his runs. Maybe a drawing board would help him to start seeing things better.

Thanks for the idea.
 
CreeDo said:
Hits'emHard: I see what you're saying, and I think that's what chris suggested earlier. But that's pretty tight position. Being stuck on the rail and then having to go around the table at high speed would be a real tester. If I fall a few inches short I am straight in my run is done. A few inches long and I'm halfway hooked by the 8 and the shot becomes impossible anyway.
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I'd rather be straight in than what position you left yourself. I can still get the cue ball to a rail and still get position close to where I described. Either top right or top left, depending upon how close the 8 truly was, allows you to still get the cue ball over towards more reliable position. Even rolling just 1/4" past straight in allows for position. Your position, and up to straight in brings the 8 into play.

Hell, I almost rather try and play a bump out than to play position on the short side with the 8 ball sitting where it is.
 
CreeDo said:
This came up recently in a game of 9b.
The six doesn't go in the top left or bottom left corner.

The 5 was laying nice, I got a good angle on it. So I played to plant the cue ball around A (so far so good) and then draw to the rail with heavy left, to send the cue ball along the black line.

However, once I got in front of it, I realized I had to use pretty soft, very low draw to avoid bumping the 8, and bend the path of the cue ball a little. By the time it reached the rail it may even have been going backwards. The left spin carried the ball to "B". And there wasn't enough force because if I hit it any harder, I clip the 8.

So what should I have done? Allowed it to clip the 8 and skipped the draw maybe? Tried to run into the cluster when I shot the 5? Just position myself for a planned safety where I freeze the CB to the 8?

O6XaH.jpg
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Creedo,

You shot the right shot...

You used straight draw and should have used inside draw.... was the only issue with where you ended up vs where you wanted to go..... All you have to do from the 6 to the 7 is use inside and draw it enough to get to the rail and the cueball will drag itself up to where you wanted to go.....

Clipping a ball that isn't a problem should be avoided... and why jump the 8 when you don't have to...

I'm not sure if you have looked at Kid Delicious' clock system stuff but even tho I don't care much for much of the Danny B stuff his inside clock drill is a big eye opener for people who have been playing for years even at high levels....

Chris
 
bank the 7 bottom left from B and run out?

but realistically, I think clipping the 8 bottomside and sliding down the long rail (on the same side as A) would have been my preference
 
Another option would have been to use soft stun. I set up this shot and tried it several times on my table with very good results using both left english and no english stun shots.
 

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Bang !

EasyEJL said:
that's how I would have shot it too
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That's how I wudda shot it too.(Imma leftie) :thumbup:

No banks, no caroms to reduce your percentage to pot. Use a good bit (almost every bit actually) of top right english to hook it past the eight ball. CB will roll up the rail about 1/2 diamond out and down to 1st diamond or thereabouts. Good shape for the 7 ball top corner and on to the 8 ball.
 
It looks like this shot would be perfect for a stun, top...hit it just hard enough with 1/2 tip of top, that the cue takes a 90 degree just long enough to clear the 8...then the top catches and follows straight down rail...you could pull this shot off without even touching the long rail...only worry is the obvious long table scratch in the corner...but it's still the way I would have played it...I would have tried to catch the long rail just before the pocket, and come back off the short rail for position, or tried to go straight to the short rail without even contacting long rail at all...depending on exact cluster position...

The top English is spinning cb away from long rail. I don't like trying to make the cb do things it doesn't naturally want to do. I think draw, left is a cute fun shot, but WAY TOO UNPREDICTABLE to use in game time. I always look to make top work before I ever consider draw. Top is just so much more reliable and predictable, since that's the direction the cues headed anyway:grin:

Great post, I gotta learn how to do that table drawing thing...it's cool
 
re:

8onthebreak said:
It looks like this shot would be perfect for a stun, top...hit it just hard enough with 1/2 tip of top, that the cue takes a 90 degree just long enough to clear the 8...then the top catches and follows straight down rail...you could pull this shot off without even touching the long rail...only worry is the obvious long table scratch in the corner...but it's still the way I would have played it...I would have tried to catch the long rail just before the pocket, and come back off the short rail for position, or tried to go straight to the short rail without even contacting long rail at all...depending on exact cluster position...

The top English is spinning cb away from long rail. I don't like trying to make the cb do things it doesn't naturally want to do. I think draw, left is a cute fun shot, but WAY TOO UNPREDICTABLE to use in game time. I always look to make top work before I ever consider draw. Top is just so much more reliable and predictable, since that's the direction the cues headed anyway:grin:

Great post, I gotta learn how to do that table drawing thing...it's cool
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8onthebreak:

What someone else and myself as well as you (bold) described is really easy to do. I used to do it for a drink or $5 at bars a few yrs ago. Bob Byrne's Video explains it in detail how to do it. :smile:
 
I would've depending on the stakes, either played safe behind the 8, or play the 6 in the side, follow the cue ball through the 8 with some speed and carom off of it, cue ball would've ideally hit the side rail and floated up for the 7.
 
The Renfro said:
You used straight draw and should have used inside draw...
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He said he used left spin.

...why jump the 8
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He didn't.

To those who say it looks like the 8 isn't in the way, remember that this is an approximate diagram done from memory - if he says it's in the way you have to take his word for it or you're not talking about his shot.

Personally, I would have probably tried for the same shape on the 6 but would have played safe off the 6 behind the 8 rather than the hard inside draw shot.

pj
chgo
 
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Jeez.

Duh.

You hit too low on the cue ball, and hence too low on the long rail.

Next rack.

There's no crying in baseball!!



(I made that shot... once. Now I play the easy lock safe there)
 
I know for many people, if they have a decent angle on a pocket then the logical choice is to go for the shot; however, given the location of the 8 ball and the side pocket close to the cue ball path if you try to carom to the inside long rail for position........I believe Credos decision to draw the ball was the most reliable choice.

The real question you have to ask is: "Can I reliably execute that shot with proper draw/spin to get position on the 7 ball.

If this is not a high probability shot based on your skill level then I might have elected for a safely. At this stage of the game I can possibly hook him, given the layout of the table, but if I miss position on the seven, the hook is out of the question and I'm forced to just leave him difficult where he will likely return the favor.

If you graze the 6 ball thin with a little left spin, the six would roll back toward the rail and the cue ball would go cross table and slide in along a line behind the 9 ball.

Even if you screw up the safety, your opponents only practical shot is cross side and he would still have great difficulty getting on the seven.

Keep in mind, I'm not advocating the safety as a first choice but every shot is a matter of risk vs reward and that varies based on your skill level.
 
After thinking about this a little more, I still don't think you did anything wrong.

You had two shots: (1) the shot you played and (2) the safe behind the 8. Which one is better depends on exactly how the balls are lying, how you feel that day, your opponent's skill level, perhaps even the score of the match, etc. Both shots have risks.

For me, if I can play the safe such that I nuzzle up by the 8 and take away the one-rail kick, I like the safe. But there's always a risk when you let your opponent back to the table. He could kick the ball in and run out (see, e.g., Chris Melling at the Mosconi Cup). On the other hand, if you pocket the 6 and don't get shape (like what you did), you are left with a difficult shot or a difficult safe and you're in trouble.

The one shot I do not like is breaking up the cluster off the 5. It's too chancey given the layout and where the 7 is. You could easily get on the wrong side of the 6, and then you're stuck.
 
This is a typical shot using CJ's TOI (touch of inside) with low spin. The cue ball floats into the position zone easily.

Best,
Mike
 
Lots of replies, I'm gonna rush a little by not addressing each one. Thanks to PJ for clearing up one thing: center ball, stun, TOI, whatever you wanna call it was 100% gonna run into the 8. If the picture doesn't show that, my bad. Draw was definitely needed to avoid clipping the 8. But I still might have overcooked it on the draw.

Stun top might have barely clipped the 8 and is an interesting idea.

So far the one option I really like is playing for the other angle. It's tricky shape but basically if I come up short (which should leave me straight in) I probably can cheat the pocket and just follow to straight to the opposite long rail, then spin uphill with inside.

If I get the desired angle I go 2 rails.

It's when you get the right angle, but only a little of it, that you're boned. But it looks pretty feasible to play a strong safe from there.
 
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