How Would You Play This?

[BRKNRUN]

I would suggest very few...I'll repeat very very very few professionals would shoot the combo with ball in hand.Nick

I would love to see some poll results on that.....I would expect many many many of them would shoot that combo with ball in hand.....(I get the image of Earl 1 stroking that combo in with ball in hand)

I look at it this way.... Shooting the combo you have 1 chance for something to go wrong...make the combo and the rest are ducks.

Shoot the 6-7-8...although a pretty routine run out.....you could easily find yourself flat on the 7 and a now having to stroke the shot to get back up table...(might not be too fun on tight pockets).....you could easily get to aggressive from the 7 to the 8 and end up flat on that shot as well....

(Based on the way that combo lays) I would expect many, many pros would shoot the combo...especially with ball in hand.

(I could be wrong though)

 

[dabarbr]

dabarbr,
Not afraid of it...I just respect it. You try that shot 50 times and you'll be surprised how often you a) Miss it b) End up straight or "funny" on 6

I would suggest very few...I'll repeat very very very few professionals would shoot the combo with ball in hand.

Nick

If the six is not frozen then this a no brainer. Take a poll and you'll see.

 

[dabarbr]

BRKNRUN makes a lot of sense.

 

[erikido]

I would love to see some poll results on that.....I would expect many many many of them would shoot that combo with ball in hand.....(I get the image of Earl 1 stroking that combo in with ball in hand)

I look at it this way.... Shooting the combo you have 1 chance for something to go wrong...make the combo and the rest are ducks.

Shoot the 6-7-8...although a pretty routine run out.....you could easily find yourself flat on the 7 and a now having to stroke the shot to get back up table...(might not be too fun on tight pockets).....you could easily get to aggressive from the 7 to the 8 and end up flat on that shot as well....

(Based on the way that combo lays) I would expect many, many pros would shoot the combo...especially with ball in hand.

(I could be wrong though)

Maybe It is just me...But, even if you get a little straight on the 7 (which is pretty hard to do with ball in hand)you don't have to come all the way down table...All you need is back to the center of the table and I have the angle to get back down table from 8 to the 9

 

[scottycoyote]

id run out just like nick b diagrammed, to me theres too many things that could go funny on shooting the combo, and its a pretty simple 4 ball run, why possibly complicate it.

 

[Black-Balled]

id run out just like nick b diagrammed, to me theres too many things that could go funny on shooting the combo, and its a pretty simple 4 ball run, why possibly complicate it.

I'm with stupids. (nothing personal there fellas!)

 

[Nick B]

"Combo-ers",
Please refer to attached drawing.

1. Jude's original drawing showed 8 frozen to rail. Making combo tougher.
2. Combos always add variables.
3. Almost a quarter of the table provides reasonable shape to get on 9
4. You can get good shape on 7 about 5 different ways (I show 3)
5. You end up straight on 7 you only have yourself to blame..but no problem just draw it out.

Nick

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4FDhh1GaLC4HTIk2INdg4PNDv4QNEP4RPxD4aDhh3acYl1baLC1bbsA4bPiP4cTIk3cbii3cbek4cTIk3caLT3caAG4cMnP3cXPK3cXMe4cHxA3cVDC3cVaB4cCJn3cSxq3cTea3cDgU3cQti3cRBv3cJju3cPnS7cIVEzb4kNDv4kGKg4kGKl4kGtN4kGtN4lNUP4lGKg3lbJT4lBGN4lBGN4mPxD4mGKi4mbYS4mDrc4mDrb4qKaG1._Ball_in_Hand_strart_here.&2._Go_forward_back_or_flat&ZZ1rDCJ3._Land_here&ZZ3sVyY4._Anywhere_here_is_good&ZZ@

 

[SPINDOKTOR]

dabarbr,
Not afraid of it...I just respect it. You try that shot 50 times and you'll be surprised how often you a) Miss it b) End up straight or "funny" on 6

I would suggest very few...I'll repeat very very very few professionals would shoot the combo with ball in hand.

Nick

Nick thats a great way to get out, I would however change position from the 7 to the 8, by going to the head rail with top spin even if you came up short the 8 is duck soup. If on the other hand, If you came up a lil short like you had in the diagram this could spell trouble, and youd end up with a tough bank or a need to play safe. Naturaly under pressure I go for a solution thats going to give me the best chance to get out.

SPINDOKTOR

 

[dabarbr]

Jude, I was just kidding about changing hobbies. I can see that you really enjoy this game and want to get better. I have been reading all the responses to this problem and I still hold firm that the combo is the best percentage solution, as long as the six is not frozen to the rail. Starting with a soft hit on the six to make the combo will leave the six closer to the pocket than where the eight was, because of it's natural roll. Cue ball will also move up slightly. With the six that close to the pocket there are many ways to pocket it and move up table about four feet toward the seven. Having the seven ball to feed you the nine ball is very important. Total roll of the cue ball to get a good shot on the nine would be about four or five feet in comparison to twenty five or thirty feet of roll by starting with the six to the seven. {more things to go wrong} Even if you get to the eight you will need a fair amount of angle to get to the nine which opens up the possability of scratching up table or hitting the tit on the side pocket. Do not start with a big angle on the six to the eight combo. You need to have everything in front of you to insure that you make the eight.Try all ways considered and get back to us with your results.

 

[Hal]

BRKNRUN makes a lot of sense.

Yes he does. Not to mention the fact that shooting the 7ball sometimes results in a "bobble". At least for me anyway.

 

[Hal]

"Combo-ers",
Please refer to attached drawing.

1. Jude's original drawing showed 8 frozen to rail. Making combo tougher.
2. Combos always add variables.
3. Almost a quarter of the table provides reasonable shape to get on 9
4. You can get good shape on 7 about 5 different ways (I show 3)
5. You end up straight on 7 you only have yourself to blame..but no problem just draw it out.

Nick

I still shoot the combo. The 8ball frozen to the rail means nothing. If the 6 were frozen and the 8 ball off the rail THEN it would be significantly more difficult.

I shot this several times today. Without a doubt, the combo way is much easier. It's not even close.

 

[Nick B]

I still shoot the combo. The 8ball frozen to the rail means nothing. If the 6 were frozen and the 8 ball off the rail THEN it would be significantly more difficult.

I shot this several times today. Without a doubt, the combo way is much easier. It's not even close.

Hal,
I believe you and for you it's probably the higher percentage shot. I consider myself a pure shooter and can move the rock around without bias for inside/outside/top/bottom etc. I started life as a snooker player and combos are not done unless two reds are frozen "ON". Balls that are frozen have twice as small a tolerance as balls just off rail. Add to this the added difficulty of the combo makes me look elsewhere. I remember someone doing the math around the tolerances of combinations (might be Dr. Dave).

Hal I'm sure you can combo a ball well and you shoot to your strengths.

Nick

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Jude, I was just kidding about changing hobbies. I can see that you really enjoy this game and want to get better. I have been reading all the responses to this problem and I still hold firm that the combo is the best percentage solution, as long as the six is not frozen to the rail. Starting with a soft hit on the six to make the combo will leave the six closer to the pocket than where the eight was, because of it's natural roll. Cue ball will also move up slightly. With the six that close to the pocket there are many ways to pocket it and move up table about four feet toward the seven. Having the seven ball to feed you the nine ball is very important. Total roll of the cue ball to get a good shot on the nine would be about four or five feet in comparison to twenty five or thirty feet of roll by starting with the six to the seven. {more things to go wrong} Even if you get to the eight you will need a fair amount of angle to get to the nine which opens up the possability of scratching up table or hitting the tit on the side pocket. Do not start with a big angle on the six to the eight combo. You need to have everything in front of you to insure that you make the eight.Try all ways considered and get back to us with your results.

dabarbr, you don't need to worry about offending me. I didn't post it to get advice. I posted it to start a debate. To me, the combination is obvious. However, I see a lot of players overlook these opportunities to make their outs easier. The simple truth is, most people will not opt for a combination UNLESS it's on the 9-ball. With that said, this was simply to illustrate how playing one slightly difficult shot (any combination should be labeled as difficult) yielding a much easier table-layout.

Of course, I could rearrange the balls so that the run-out would then be favorable OR I could set it up where the combination wouldn't be so obvious. The point was to look for a way to minimize one's work.

 

[Hal]

The cue ball has to do a lot of unnecessary traveling if you don't shoot the combo.

 

[acedotcom]

It's an easy run w/o the combo. Why take a chance on screwing up position on the 6 when you only have 4 ducks on the table?

 

[MFB]

The cue ball has to do a lot of unnecessary traveling if you don't shoot the combo.

Hal you are absolutely right. I always try to rember to move whitey as little as possible to get the job done.

I guess shot selection also comes down to the table you are playing on too.

 

[Black-Balled]

It's an easy run w/o the combo. Why take a chance on screwing up position on the 6 when you only have 4 ducks on the table?

I shot it each way 5x last nite. Got out each time playing them in order, one time, pursuing the combo route,the 6 crept over to the side rail where I had to cut it severely and run the CB back and forth across the table.

Don't think a pro would advise the combo, though would certainly bet all day that he/ she could get out by shooting it...

edit: pursuing the combo route,

 

[Nick B]

I shot it each way 5x last nite. Got out each time playing them in order, one time, pursuing the combo route,the 6 crept over to the side rail where I had to cut it severely and run the CB back and forth across the table.

Don't think a pro would advise the combo, though would certainly bet all day that he/ she could get out by shooting it...

edit: pursuing the combo route,

This is my thinking. To shoot this and ensure your OK on the 6 you should bring the cueball up about one diamond. This requires a cut shot on the 6 - 8 combo and magnifies difficulty. Now if someone puts gun to my head and says shoot the combo he's getting it 19-20. If someone says run these 4 balls for 100K. I'm shooting the 4 ball run out and going car shopping.

Nick

 

[sjm]

I have to admit that this thread is bothering me a little. Let's start with this observation ---- anyone who plays well enough that the four ball run out is a sure thing will also get out off the 6 - 8 combo every time. Which choice a top player makes here is virtually inconsequential, which is why I could care less how they would play this.

Jude has provided an exceptional example of how taking a dynamic view of the position can enable players of all levels to get out from here. That makes this an important thread that provides a good lesson. Pool maxims like "don't shoot a combo when you don't have to" are all well and good, but every rule has exceptions, and a nice example of a n exception has been offered here.

Would anyone tell the "C" player on their league team to go for the four ball runout? The "C" player is a heavy underdog to complete this runout, but if they simplify using the 6 - 8 combo and execute it, they're a clear favorite to run out.

I will add that I've often seen pros play combos in this type of position.

Nice thread, Jude!

 

[Snapshot9]

Reevaluate

The 7 ball shot AFTER making the 6. You have to see where your cue ball ends up.

1) If pretty straight, then throw 7 ball to outside of pocket and draw back downtable for 8.
2) If slight angle to the 7, then can shoot 7 in with low right, and come off long rail for shape on the 8.
3) If more than slight angle on 7, then you can play upper left english with lots of spin to go 4 rails for shape on the 8.

and with any angle on the 8, I can get on the 9.

If you decide to shoot the combo, then you have to cue it where your cue ball ends up at about the foot spot, so you can cover a shot on the 6 at the foot end rail, or the long rail below it, depending how the 6 ends up laying after the combo.