How would you play this?

TATE said:
No thanks. I'll pull the cueball back. All this discussion over a simple layout with numerous good ways to clear it is why some of these threads are ridiculous.


Chris
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I'll agree with that. Ya gotta admit though, it's almost amusing how many varying opinions you'll get on something this simple. :)

Mark Tadd hit the nail on the head in this forum, though I'm going to refrain from repeating, or even paraphrasing, what he said. Needless to say, he got flamed from all directions for it. I'm not wearing flame retardant clothing so I'm not going there! ;)
 
TATE said:
...All this discussion over a simple layout with numerous good ways to clear it is why some of these threads are ridiculous.
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I disagree. The fact that this "simple layout" has gathered 5 pages of useful discussion makes threads like these not ridiculous, IMO.
 
Aaron_S said:
I will sometimes play the shot like this:

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The nice thing about this route is that it's pretty natural (just a bit of running spin), and you still pick up a perfect angle on the 8 even if you don't get your speed exactly right. I like the stop shot as well, and will almost always do one of the two.

Aaron
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I am more or less comfortable with either decision in this post. But, one thing I would point out though; I read a long time ago and have used this in all games I play when this type shot comes up and thought I would share this with the forum.

When the cut angle is approximately a 1/4 ball hit and when the ball is 1/2 ball or less off the rail, the (I won't say maximum), extreme english you can achieve off the object ball under normal circumstances is a 60 degree angle. From the original diagram, I equated this to be equal to two diamonds from where the cue ball will strike the rail for easy reference.

This shot is close to meeting those requirements for a scratch in the side pocket off the 8 ball. See edited post above, cue ball B. Edited scratch information I forgot.

I am not saying this is not a correct shot. I am only pointing this out as another thought process to be aware of when shooting this shot so you don't leave yourself in a vulnerable position.

Your ability may be better than normal, or, perhaps you might jack up slightly to overcome this.

But, I thought I would point this out. Practice this and try it out and find out where your limitations are.

Good Luck
 
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When the cut angle is approximately a 1/4 ball hit
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If you're talking about the shot on the 7, it can be made with anywhere from a thin cut to a full ball hit (straight on), so this limit wouldn't apply (assuming it's correct in the first place).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
If you're talking about the shot on the 7, it can be made with anywhere from a thin cut to a full ball hit (straight on), so this limit wouldn't apply (assuming it's correct in the first place).

pj
chgo
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Sorry, Pat. I remembered on the way home that I didn't explain the scratch possibilities off the 8 ball where I edited the original table when I was describing my suggestion. I edited the original post in Italics so others won't be confused.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
If you're talking about the shot on the 7, it can be made with anywhere from a thin cut to a full ball hit (straight on), so this limit wouldn't apply (assuming it's correct in the first place).

pj
chgo
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He's talking about the cut on the 8, and he's making the point that players need to be aware of exactly how far uptable they can spin off of that first cushion, because there's a risk of scratching in the side (if the cut angle on the 8 is too great).

I usually measure these out by looking at the tangent line. By determining your approach-angle going into the first cushion, and considering the amount of spin you intend to use, you should be able to gauge with a fair degree of accuracy where the cueball will strike the second cushion. I've never heard the "1/4-ball/60 degree " rule, but it sounds like it might be a bit conservative, which may be precisely what you want at certain times, or on certain equipment.

Looking at the cut angle I diagrammed, which is actually a bit thinner than what I would play for, it does appear possible (by perhaps overcutting the 8-ball and letting up on your stroke) to bring the side pocket into play. That being said, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the shot as it is diagrammed, and would expect to hit the second cushion at least a full dot above the side pocket. As klockdoc stated, however, the shot may not be for everyone.

Good rolls,

Aaron
 
If I ended up with too much angle, more likely I would just go to the other side of the 9 as diagrammed below, hitting hard enough to pass the 9 but hopefully not so hard as to scratch.

I think the worse thing to do is to have too much angle and try to hold the cueball to the right side of the 9 - because you could easily end up with no shot at all on the 9.

Chris



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Opinion

Most of the posters are playing for too much angle on the 8, half the angle most have for the 8 would be enough. If you use low left english, and throw the cue against the long rail while drawing, the cue will come back below the 9 for a shot.

The other way to play it is to shoot the 7 in drawing the cue over to the long rail, on the rail for angle, and shoot the 8 up corner with high left english and bring the cue ball below the 9 for a shot.
 
I am probably consider a C player, bottom of the barrel C. I have always followed two rules though, 1) play what makes sense and 2) Its easier to shoot in the direction of the money ball. So I have in the past played similiar shots hitting the 8 in the top corning and following off the closest rail to the 9 ball ending somewhere on the right of it. For me, it is the shot that makes sense and I am moving my rock in the same direction I need to get shape on the 9.
 
Aaron_S:
... I wouldn't hesitate to shoot the shot as it is diagrammed, and would expect to hit the second cushion at least a full dot above the side pocket.
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I agree with that. klockdoc's rule of thumb is about right, I think, but that isn't a 1/4-ball hit, which would be a little over a 45-degree cut (like CB "A" in my diagram below). And the 8-ball being 1/2 ball off the rail is a big help too - with that lie I can hit two diamonds past the side pocket regularly (the black line), maybe more on sticky cloth. Even from a true 1/4-ball angle, if the 8's off the rail I can hit a diamond past the side pocket regularly (the red line). The only time the side pocket comes into play for me is if the 8-ball is frozen to the rail and the cut angle is 45 degrees or steeper.

I use the tangent line like you to estimate the effect of sidespin off the rail (and the 8-ball being off the rail changes the tangent line angle), but I also like klockdoc's rule of thumb - I'll keep it in mind.

pj
chgo

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I haven't read this entire thread, but here is what I would do.

7 Ball in the upper left corner. Leave cue ball above the 8 on the rail.

Shoot the 8 in the upper right corner with follow. Leave cue ball down on the bottom right rail.

Shoot the 9 in the upper right corner.

Russ.......
 
Aaron S answered on the first page what Efren would do.


The suggestion that the 8 would be made with follow to the upper right corner is not wise unless maybe with the barbox with buckets, and even then the original shot Aaron suggested could be better, unless the rails would be extremely tight (fast)..

The thing with the follow is, especially when the pockets are tight, that with such a distance the pocket gets small and the shot gets too difficult. You will have to be carefull not contacting the point of the center pocket, with 8-ball, but also with CB, if you're (nearly)straight. If you're straight, you also have to be careful with CB as the room on that side of the table for the 9 is not so big. You don't want to scratch, but also you don't want to leave too much angle, and again, you have to be careful with the center pocket..


The shot what Roy and some other left hander suggested, is an option, but only when the 7-ball is not too deep in the pocket, so you're 100% sure how the rail plays as you don't want to contact the point of the corner pocket. With the shot Aaron suggested, you don't even have to worry about that, only about not to contact the 8 but still going from close enough, so the angle wouldn't be too big for the 8.
I'm sure Efren and 98% of the Pros would play it like that, but of course it's an individual matter and if you don't like to add english then you better do what your heart tells and if it's the long follow then it's the right choice for you..
 
unknownpro said:

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Something like this on a good worn table. I'm sure my angles aren't quite right, but anytime the ball is at the 50 yard line on the rail you have to think of going around because it's probably easier. More angle on the 8 makes it easier to get around.

unknownpro
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Some of the last few posts are good arguments for going the way I drew it up. On fast sticky rails it's easier to spin around than draw consistently. This shot will take the same angle at whatever speed you hit it as long as you hit it hard enough, and can be made with the same stroke even if the cueball rolls longer on the 8 in that direction. You don't have to really hit it harder or stroke it better if you are further away.

The follow and draw shots on the 8 have to be more straight and hit hard enough to draw or follow down the table. Because of the straighter angle the object ball has to be hit firmly anyway. The wider angle on my shot doesn't pound the object ball in even though the cueball has a lot more speed after contact with the eight.

The draw shot or even the follow will not take the same angle at different speed, and the draw shot requires a better and better stroke as the cueball gets further away.

On my shot playing for more angle also lessens the chance of running into the eight.

unknownpro
 
By the way, I would play this shot the way I drew it up shooting right handed. Left handed I would play to draw from the eight and place the cueball on the other side of the 7 to cut it and bounce off the end rail to get straighter on the eight.

Switch hitting I'd play it the way I drew it up shooting the 7 left handed, the 8 right handed and the nine left handed if I'm cutting it left.

unknownpro
 
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