How would you rule in this situation?

[av84fun]

I would call the foul on myself because, when I look in the mirror every morning, I don't want to question the quality of the person looking back at me.

Maybe you should call the foul on yourself because...YOU FOULED.
What difference does it make if the other guy noticed? You still fouled.
Maybe you should call the foul because...wait for it...YOU WANT TO WIN BY OUTPLAYING YOUR OPPONENT!!!
Who cares if other people in this sport or other sports have no morals. You should care about YOUR morals.

If you chose to live your life with a certain amount of moral flexibility, then so be it. You are not the first and I am sure won't be the last.I will not try to impose my morals on you. I will however, try to avoid you and your kind as much as possible.


You can learn alot about a person over a game of pool or a round of golf.

Jimbo

Jimbo...you are imposing YOUR OWN definition of "morality" on other people and you really only have the right to impose such standards on yourself.

Is there a rule you can site that specifically requires the self-calling of fouls? If not, then on what basis do you rest your argument that not calling self-fouls is immoral, let alone unsportsmanlike? To be "unsportsmanlike" BY DEFINITION

As I have asked others, what sports can you name that require self-called fouls and since you cannot name many, why do you think that pool players should be held to a higher standard of sportsmanship than the players in nearly all other major and minor sports?

Please note that the WPA had every opportunity to pass a RULE requiring self-called fouls but did not. Furhter, it had the opportunity to mention a failure to self-call fouls in its list of examples of unsportsmanlike conduct...but it did not.

Finally, note that the WPA DID promulgate a rule to the effect that if play continues after a foul, then no foul will be deemed to have been committed.

Well, simple logic requires the conclusion that play COULD NOT CONTINUE so as to extinguish a foul if the players were obligated to call them on themselves!!! Therefore, by plain and SIMPLE deduction, the RULES don't even IMPLY, let alone require the self-calling of fouls.



Regards,
Jim

 

[av84fun]

Isn't it "unsportsmanlike" not to shake hands after a match? I always hear people say that. I have never seen that as a rule though.

What if you lean over a shot and completely block your opponent's view of the shot, and foul? If he had no chance to see the foul would you call it?

C'mon man...fight fair! (-:

Certain forms of unsportsmanlike conduct carry PENALTIES under the rules...and not shaking hands with an opponent is NOT one of them.

And besides, what if the opponent has been a total JERK during the match. Sharked you repeatedly. Said every great shot you made was lucky etc. Does YOUR version of sportsmanship require shaking that person's hand??? GIMME A BREAK!

And if your opponent leans over a shot so as to block your view you are fully entitled to move so that you can see the shot so long as you don't shark him in the process.

Let me add you to the list. As I have asked others, what sports can you name that require self-called fouls and since you cannot name many, why do you think that pool players should be held to a higher standard of sportsmanship than the players in nearly all other major and minor sports?

Jim

 

[av84fun]

you do know that when you scratch on the 8, you automatically lose the game. did that person obey that rule?

oh, nevermind that. you have your own reason to disagree on disobeying that rule. nuff said.

Had you read the thread more carefully, you would know that I made that EXACT POINT....that in the OP's example, the game WAS over when his team member scratched on the 8 and that the ref made a BAD CALL in ruling the opposite.

As I have asked others, what sports can you name that require self-called fouls and since you cannot name many, why do you think that pool players should be held to a higher standard of sportsmanship than the players in nearly all other major and minor sports?
Jim

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Had you read the thread more carefully, you would know that I made that EXACT POINT....that in the OP's example, the game WAS over when his team member scratched on the 8 and that the ref made a BAD CALL in ruling the opposite.

As I have asked others, what sports can you name that require self-called fouls and since you cannot name many, why do you think that pool players should be held to a higher standard of sportsmanship than the players in nearly all other major and minor sports?
Jim

that's simple, because it is called POOL and not any other sports !!! you are welcome to state your reasons and opinions, but I wont accept them for I have mine. leave it like that coz neither of us will stand down

Respectfully,

ME

 

[easy-e]

C'mon man...fight fair! (-:

Certain forms of unsportsmanlike conduct carry PENALTIES under the rules...and not shaking hands with an opponent is NOT one of them.

And besides, what if the opponent has been a total JERK during the match. Sharked you repeatedly. Said every great shot you made was lucky etc. Does YOUR version of sportsmanship require shaking that person's hand??? GIMME A BREAK!

And if your opponent leans over a shot so as to block your view you are fully entitled to move so that you can see the shot so long as you don't shark him in the process.

Let me add you to the list. As I have asked others, what sports can you name that require self-called fouls and since you cannot name many, why do you think that pool players should be held to a higher standard of sportsmanship than the players in nearly all other major and minor sports?

Jim

For your first point, the JERK opponent was being unsportsmanlike as well, but didn't break any rules either. His conduct was still wrong.

Second point, what if you block his view and shoot before he gets a chance to move?

And for your question about other sports.....I don't care about other sports. But if I did, then I would also say it is unsportsmanlike for them to break the rules and not call themselves on it.

You won't budge on this, I won't budge on this, Hail Mary won't budge on this, runnoutallovermyass won't budge on this, why are we still discussing it?

 

[RunoutalloverU]

that's simple, because it is called POOL and not any other sports !!! you are welcome to state your reasons and opinions, but I wont accept them for I have mine. leave it like that coz neither of us will stand down

Respectfully,

ME

Well now you arent even trying to contribute to the discussion, how unsportsmanlike hahahaha. The sun isn't hot, because its yellow and red, and I dont know of a lot of things that are yellow and red that are hot, so that my opinion....lol.....this is what I read post after post.

 

[RunoutalloverU]

I wonder if Derek Jeter ever lost sleep at night because he didnt call himself out when he was called safe even though he knew the tag or ball beat him. I mean just think about how all those red sox fans would feel, we don't want to hurt their feelings that would be wrong. <--- complete insanity.

 

[av84fun]

that's simple, because it is called POOL and not any other sports !!! you are welcome to state your reasons and opinions, but I wont accept them for I have mine. leave it like that coz neither of us will stand down

Respectfully,

ME

OK, so your REASON for imposing a higher standard of sportsmanship on pool than any other sport is because of the name "pool."

Fine. That's a reason. It is an utterly illogical reason but it certainly is a reason.

Thanks for sharing.

Jim

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Well now you arent even trying to contribute to the discussion, how unsportsmanlike hahahaha. The sun isn't hot, because its yellow and red, and I dont know of a lot of things that are yellow and red that are hot, so that my opinion....lol.....this is what I read post after post.

actually it's more apparent that it is you !
and you have to resolve to this.
now I know why you are PRO-UNSPORTSMANLIKE !!! I just found it's roots!!!

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

OK, so your REASON for imposing a higher standard of sportsmanship on pool than any other sport is because of the name "pool."

Fine. That's a reason. It is an utterly illogical reason but it certainly is a reason.

Thanks for sharing.

Jim

Yeah, and you found comparison to other sports as logical ??? how convenient !

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I wonder if Derek Jeter ever lost sleep at night because he didnt call himself out when he was called safe even though he knew the tag or ball beat him. I mean just think about how all those red sox fans would feel, we don't want to hurt their feelings that would be wrong. <--- complete insanity.

what is that sport that Jeter play again? ahahaha !

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

For your first point, the JERK opponent was being unsportsmanlike as well, but didn't break any rules either. His conduct was still wrong.

Second point, what if you block his view and shoot before he gets a chance to move?

And for your question about other sports.....I don't care about other sports. But if I did, then I would also say it is unsportsmanlike for them to break the rules and not call themselves on it.

You won't budge on this, I won't budge on this, Hail Mary won't budge on this, runnoutallovermyass won't budge on this, why are we still discussing it?

simple, because they cant accept the fact that we care to disagree with them and they cant get over it until they have the last say on things that their reasoning is right and ours are purely insane. and mr.runnout watchamacallit had to resolve to insults. how unsportsmanlike !

 

[av84fun]

For your first point, the JERK opponent was being unsportsmanlike as well, but didn't break any rules either. His conduct was still wrong.

Second point, what if you block his view and shoot before he gets a chance to move?

And for your question about other sports.....I don't care about other sports. But if I did, then I would also say it is unsportsmanlike for them to break the rules and not call themselves on it.

You won't budge on this, I won't budge on this, Hail Mary won't budge on this, runnoutallovermyass won't budge on this, why are we still discussing it?

First point...you didn't answer my question.

Second point....You can dream up highly unlikely scenarios to try to prove any point you want but your example would be so extremely rare that it's not worth discussing.

Re: other sports, whether you care about them or not isn't the issue. The issue is that there is no self-calling of fouls in nearly all other sports and looking to other sports is a FUNDAMENTAL REQUIREMENT to develop a matrix of what does and does not constitute sportsmanlike conduct.

Your ignoring nearly the entire sporting industry merely renders your views on pool to be totally arbitrary.

As for why we are discussing it, I can only speak for myself and the answer to your question is because it is interesting. What is your reason for discussing it?

Regards,
Jim

 

[RunoutalloverU]

what is that sport that Jeter play again? ahahaha !

Crap, I think it just dawned on me that you probably agree with us me and Av8, and youve just been playing devils advocate at first and now your just having fun screwing with us. I fell for it, well done. And Jeter has the best dunk in all of soccer.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Crap, I think it just dawned on me that you probably agree with us me and Av8, and youve just been playing devils advocate at first and now your just having fun screwing with us. I fell for it, well done. And Jeter has the best dunk in all of soccer.

LOL ! great way to break a leg !

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

First point...you didn't answer my question.

Second point....You can dream up highly unlikely scenarios to try to prove any point you want but your example would be so extremely rare that it's not worth discussing.

Re: other sports, whether you care about them or not isn't the issue. The issue is that there is no self-calling of fouls in nearly all other sports and looking to other sports is a FUNDAMENTAL REQUIREMENT to develop a matrix of what does and does not constitute sportsmanlike conduct.

Your ignoring nearly the entire sporting industry merely renders your views on pool to be totally arbitrary.

As for why we are discussing it, I can only speak for myself and the answer to your question is because it is interesting. What is your reason for discussing it?

Regards,
Jim

I can sight mine. because I have this extreme infatuation towards you and cant seem to get over it ! I'll come home imagining about you and probably have some wet dreams about you.


oh by the way, I'm just messing with yah !

 

[RunoutalloverU]

I can sight mine. because I have this extreme infatuation towards you and cant seem to get over it ! I'll come home imagining about you and probably have some wet dreams about you.


oh by the way, I'm just messing with yah !

see told you lol.

 

[kobyp]

again, you reminded me of Earl's moral stand. the ref didn't see it, so it's ok!


anyway, I got some experiences with people of your kind. they don't call fouls on themselves, deny that they in fact fouled and argued that it's ok because nobody saw what happened. believe me, it's not a pretty sight thereafter. pool should promote goodwill and not illwill by tolerating dishonest behavior. the sad fact that people hide under so-called viable excuse of rules just to justify their dishonesty and clear loss, is comparable to that of lawyers trying to justify their client's stealing habit.

I guess the most important thing for you is the WIN, whether if it's gained from legal or illegal actions. truly a SAD day for POOL.

This is where ASSumptions start: I stated that I don't call fouls on myself, you assume that I lie that I ever fouled at all if the opponent asks. That is not true.

For example, if I am playing a safety which involves hitting the OB softly and leaving the CB behind my ball, and the OB rolls up to the rail but doesn't touch it. I don't call that foul on myself BUT, if my opponent asks me if that is BIH, then I agree.

If I make an obvious bad hit, I let my opponent know it. If it is going to be close, I tell the opponent to watch the shot. I'll even let them stand in my line of sight to watch. If they don't say that's a foul, after being right there watching, then am I in the wrong to keep shooting?

There are so many instances that can be argued here which would take years to clear up. The main point I am trying to make is that I don't call fouls on myself, but if the opponent asks I will not lie to them. BUT THEY HAVE TO ASK

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I stated that I don't call fouls on myself, you assume that I lie

What's the difference?

There are so many instances that can be argued here

They all boil down to the same question: Do you play honestly or not? It's not complicated - all these "instances" are smoke.

pj
chgo

 

[jbullerjr]

Jimbo...you are imposing YOUR OWN definition of "morality" on other people and you really only have the right to impose such standards on yourself. I am not imposing my morals on the other person, but I am judging them based on my morals.

Is there a rule you can site that specifically requires the self-calling of fouls? If not, then on what basis do you rest your argument that not calling self-fouls is immoral, let alone unsportsmanlike? To be "unsportsmanlike" BY DEFINITIONThere is not a rule that requires self-calling shots, never said there was. I say that it is immoral for the same reason some say it is ok, it is just the way I was raised. I never mentioned sportsmanship.

As I have asked others, what sports can you name that require self-called fouls and since you cannot name many, why do you think that pool players should be held to a higher standard of sportsmanship than the players in nearly all other major and minor sports?No sport requires self-called fouls. I don't care if pool players are held to a higher standard, I just hold myself to a higher standard. Also, see below.

Please note that the WPA had every opportunity to pass a RULE requiring self-called fouls but did not. Furhter, it had the opportunity to mention a failure to self-call fouls in its list of examples of unsportsmanlike conduct...but it did not.IMHO that was a missed opportunity to show some class in our sport. We could sure use it.

Finally, note that the WPA DID promulgate a rule to the effect that if play continues after a foul, then no foul will be deemed to have been committed.Alot of people feel this way, it is only a crime if you get caught.

Well, simple logic requires the conclusion that play COULD NOT CONTINUE so as to extinguish a foul if the players were obligated to call them on themselves!!! Therefore, by plain and SIMPLE deduction, the RULES don't even IMPLY, let alone require the self-calling of fouls.I agree that the rules don't even imply that you should have to self-call fouls.


Regards,
Jim

As far as my self imposed moral standards, I just want to be the type of man that my father and mother are proud to call "son", the type of man my kids would be proud to call "father", the type of man my wife would be proud to call "husband" and the type of man that some would be proud to call "friend".

I would just like to see our sport to be seen in a little better light.
Are you not tired of hearing "Oh, so your a pool hustler/shark" most every time you tell someone that you play. Those terms are generally used to describe a person who is devious and deceitful see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hustling

If you tell someone that you play any other sport at a highly completive level, you are not immediately labeled to be a person who is probably a cheater. Well maybe poker.

I have never heard
"I play AAA baseball."
"Oh, so your a baseball shark."

Jimbo