How'd This Happen?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ended up with these two balls on the table last night, so i decided to shoot the '8' into the side pocket, and draw back to around Point B for the '9' into the corner.

well, when i hit the draw shot on the '8', of course it rattled around in the side pockets like a pin ball machine, and popped back out onto the table. i just dont see any way possible that could have happened, but yet it did. i did not hit the point with the '8' Ball, i had to have hit the facing. the cue ball ended up right where it was supposed to go. i didnt pound this shot either, just made sure i chalked up, and got plenty of draw on the shot.

i just fail to comprehend how this could have happened???

DCP

CueTable Help

 
Cause you played the shot wrong...that is why that happened.

You should of thinned the 8, sent the cue 3 rails and got perfect position to play the 9 in the bottom left corner.

Hell, if you gotta bottom it, just use enough bottom right to get the cue to go straight to the top rail and two rails back for the 9.

I get tickled at you guys that try to bottom english out the world...geez...use the rails guys! That is what they are there for!!!
 
yea, it's a freak thing when that happens. IMO try that shot following 3 rails clockwise around the table. No chance of scratching unless you hit it real bad, and almost 100% make on the ball.

Gerry
 
8 ball probably struck the point first. I think drawing this is the wrong shot anyway, that is forcing you to trike it hard, should have just cut the 8 in and went up table and back again for the 9-ball.
 
following? cutting it thin? these make for a very difficult position play on the 9 ball. all kinds of bad things could happen. scratch in the side, or if your speed is off your left with a very difficult thin cut into the corner.

why go 14 feet and 2-3 rails when all you have to do is draw back 4 feet and you have perfect position. and no, i did NOT hit the point, i hit the facing. it rattled 2-3 times, and popped out.

when i decided to hit the draw shot, i even thought to myself "Wait, watch those side pockets, you know how they are!" but then i reasoned there is just NO WAY it can pop this ball out.

obviously, i was wrong.
DCP
 
From where you are on point A and playing draw you should have missed the shot. You fired the 8 directly into the point and it bobbled around and bounced out as it should have done.

Cutting and going around table is the much better shot here. Give it a few tries.

Here is how you struck it it to get it to come back to B. It was destined not to go in because it is the wrong shot. If you played draw at all on this shot and made the 8 ball you probably would have been by C in the diagram below. The diagram below shows where you would have to hit the 8 ball to draw back to B also. The ball didnt go in because it wasnt supposed to, you just played the shot wrong.

CueTable Help


DCP said:
following? cutting it thin? these make for a very difficult position play on the 9 ball. all kinds of bad things could happen.
Click to expand...
So you are saying you made the right choice and what happened is good??
 
Last edited:
well, thanks for the responses posters. perhaps its difficult on a WEI table to see exactly how this shot lay. still say with the angle on the '8' that i played it right. i would say most people would agree with me if they could see the shot on an actual table. perhaps my WEI diagram was off just a hair.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
following? cutting it thin? these make for a very difficult position play on the 9 ball. all kinds of bad things could happen. scratch in the side, or if your speed is off your left with a very difficult thin cut into the corner.

why go 14 feet and 2-3 rails when all you have to do is draw back 4 feet and you have perfect position. and no, i did NOT hit the point, i hit the facing. it rattled 2-3 times, and popped out.

when i decided to hit the draw shot, i even thought to myself "Wait, watch those side pockets, you know how they are!" but then i reasoned there is just NO WAY it can pop this ball out.

obviously, i was wrong.
DCP
Click to expand...
Follow the link below to see three different ways to play this shot from the AZ columns last month. None of them involve drawing the CB straight back.

http://www.azbilliards.com/glennbond/glenn5.cfm

If you are playing on your own table and you can't control speed on this basic 3-4 rail around the table position shot, you need to spend time on speed drills.

You shot the wrong shot
 
GADawg said:
If you are playing on your own table and you can't control speed on this basic 3-4 rail around the table position shot, you need to spend time on speed drills.

You shot the wrong shot
Click to expand...

Thats another thing, you have the option of going from 1 rail down and back, 2 rails, 3 rails, or even a 4th rail. No need to play draw on this shot, the power you put into the draw is what pulled this ball out.
 
Possible Answer on jarring the side pocket

DrCue'sProtege said:
well, when i hit the draw shot on the '8', of course it rattled around in the side pockets like a pin ball machine, and popped back out onto the table. i just dont see any way possible that could have happened, but yet it did. i did not hit the point with the '8' Ball, i had to have hit the facing. the cue ball ended up right where it was supposed to go.
i just fail to comprehend how this could have happened???

DCP
Click to expand...
Are you saying that after all the time you've spent on a table, this is the first time you hit a ball into the side pocket facing like that such that it didn't go in?

Here's what I think happens:

Every single time you hit a ball into the side pocket from that angle, you have a very small window. Remember that on most cushions, a shot that isn't spinning rebounds short of the natural mirror angle. So, I suppose there's no reason that it wouldn't also bounce short off of the pocket facing. So, looking at the pocket and assuming that a ball coming in that angle will rebound into the hole might not be true. The angle off of that side facing will come up rebounding shorter which might mean that the ball go across in front of the hole rather than into the hole.

So, depending on the pocket angles, condition of the cushions and cloth, speed of the shot, the spin on the object ball, and exactly where on that facing you've hit, even if the ball doesn't hit the point, there is the potential for the object ball to bounce straight across and not into the hole. Consequently, when the object ball hits the other facing, it normally doesn't go back and forth like a light ray off of parallel mirrors. If it didn't go in the hole, it normally will work back onto the playing area.

And, in case you wanted an opinion on what shot to shoot, I'd cut the 8-ball and go up and down the table, trying to take a route that had less scratch potential.

Fred
 
Icon of Sin said:
8 ball probably struck the point first. I think drawing this is the wrong shot anyway, that is forcing you to trike it hard, should have just cut the 8 in and went up table and back again for the 9-ball.
Click to expand...

DCP, Shooting balls into the side pocket at an angle and trying to draw the cue ball back is harder than it looks as the object ball will often bounce out if you hit it too hard. You learned something here the hard way something that we all have to learn on the limitations of shooting into the side pocket.

As other posters have mentioned, the better approach is to go 2-3 rails around the table. Practice going 2-3 rails for position; it's not as hard as you think it is.
 
Side Pocket Shot ...

I agree with the masses on this one DCP, hit just a little of the 8, use 11:15
english (keeps cue ball out of corner pocket when it comes back down table), and go 2 rails, with cue ball coming back down table to line up on the 9. I usually am almost straight in on the 9 on this shot.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
ended up with these two balls on the table last night, so i decided to shoot the '8' into the side pocket, and draw back to around Point B for the '9' into the corner.

well, when i hit the draw shot on the '8', of course it rattled around in the side pockets like a pin ball machine, and popped back out onto the table. i just dont see any way possible that could have happened, but yet it did. i did not hit the point with the '8' Ball, i had to have hit the facing. the cue ball ended up right where it was supposed to go. i didnt pound this shot either, just made sure i chalked up, and got plenty of draw on the shot.

i just fail to comprehend how this could have happened???

DCP

CueTable Help

Click to expand...

Sounds like you tried to create an angle that maybe just ain't there.
Try this, and you may need to work at it a bit, but it will come in handy.
Make a thin hit on the object ball with just a bit above center ball hit. The cue ball will come long, 2 rails out of the corner and straight toward point B, avoiding the side pocket. This is a handy shot to learn and come into play in a lot of games.
Buddy once said, if you have a problem, start with the middle of the cue ball.
 
Everytime you get replies you say "maybe I didn't set it up exactly right on the wei table" and then you go on to just dismiss those replies. LOL
 
Harvywallbanger said:
Everytime you get replies you say "maybe I didn't set it up exactly right on the wei table" and then you go on to just dismiss those replies. LOL
Click to expand...

no, dont do that everytime, but i have a few times. it is kinda hard to get the shot exactly right on the WEI table, and also kinda hard to visualize the shot in your mind as far as what it would look like on a table.

most on here think going up and down, 2-3 rails, etc, was the way to play this shot. they may or not be right, not really sure, but its food for thought. i did set the shot up 3 times right afterwards and shot it with draw, and all 3 times got what i wanted. the ball didnt pop out, and i got perfect position on the '9' ball. but it did pop out on the shot that counted, however.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
well, thanks for the responses posters. perhaps its difficult on a WEI table to see exactly how this shot lay. still say with the angle on the '8' that i played it right. i would say most people would agree with me if they could see the shot on an actual table. perhaps my WEI diagram was off just a hair.

DCP
Click to expand...

It's tough to improve when you obviously have a closed mind. You said "wait, watch these side pockets, you know how they are", and you played this shot anyway??

The draw imparted follow(maybe even made it get in the air a little) on the object ball, and at the angle you are showing, the ball ran around the pocket(or hit where the pocket meets the table) similar to what happens when you flush the toilet. To me it's easy to see how the ball came back out.
 
i_maycotte said:
Cause you played the shot wrong...that is why that happened.

You should of thinned the 8, sent the cue 3 rails and got perfect position to play the 9 in the bottom left corner.

Hell, if you gotta bottom it, just use enough bottom right to get the cue to go straight to the top rail and two rails back for the 9.

I get tickled at you guys that try to bottom english out the world...geez...use the rails guys! That is what they are there for!!!
Click to expand...

DCP-
This piece of advice is right on the money so take heed. Always try to find a "natural shot" rather than a heavy stroke shot like drawing a ball. If you play this shot thin with a little high right, you naturally go three rails and back downtable for the 9.

If you must use a little english, bottom right is the way to go. You'll go short-rail, long-rail, and back down table again for the 9. But never try and draw a ball like this when it isn't necessary.
 
pharaoh68 said:
DCP-
This piece of advice is right on the money so take heed. Always try to find a "natural shot" rather than a heavy stroke shot like drawing a ball. If you play this shot thin with a little high right, you naturally go three rails and back downtable for the 9.

If you must use a little english, bottom right is the way to go. You'll go short-rail, long-rail, and back down table again for the 9. But never try and draw a ball like this when it isn't necessary.
Click to expand...

You got that right. Draw is much harder to control than follow. In fact I believe in some of Dr. Cue's articles or videos he talks about never using draw when you can use follow instead and I know he has speed control drills. This is just a basic shot which comes up all the time. If you practice three rail kick shots, you know what speed to hit this with.

"you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink(or think)"
 
Call me crazy, but I think I like the two rail option with a little inside rather than the three rail.

Any thoughts on this?
 
NaClBandit said:
Call me crazy, but I think I like the two rail option with a little inside rather than the three rail.

Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

I agree. By playing position on the side of the nine with more room, you increase your room for error, but make sure you miss the scratch in the side.
 
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