Huh. All that fuss about Shane "spinning" the ball, was a misunderstanding.

CreeDo

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
And so was the crying about Shane getting some sort of preferential treatment on a push foul.

On the stream, Ken explained the controversy that caused Jeremy Jones to quit his
US Open 1p match with shane after just 2 or 3 racks.
Shane never asked for the ball to be spun. Instead he called the ref over and
pointed to the object ball, which Ken confirms had an obvious black
scuff mark at the contact point. Shane was wordlessly indicating the ball needed cleaning.

Ken didn't have his ball marker available for some reason, so he didn't want to pick up
the ball and clean it and then risk not putting it back exactly. So he compromised
by just spinning the ball without moving it.

Shane was apparently ok with this but Jeremy flipped out.
Ken did acknowledges this was not a professional way to handle it and won't do it again.

Shortly before that, JJ was bothered because Shane asked a ref
"if I shoot straight into this shot, is that a foul?" ...he apparently felt like this
is sort of like asking the ref for advice, which they're forbidden to give.

But Shane was just asking "If I do this is that a foul?" which is a rules question.
The ref isn't giving advice by just stating "yes, shooting into the ball is a foul"
or "no, shooting into the ball is not a foul". If the ref said "you should shoot
at an angle away from the ball", THEN you could make the case he's giving advice.

The other commentator (is that watchez?) suggested Jeremy was maybe a little
disheartened by his tough draw. Still seems pretty lame to me, forfeiting over nothing.
 
Jj

I'm guessing JJ may have high blood pressure with all the BB bull shit. He's usually pretty decent to play and gamble with at least times I've been around him.

Also, he may be buying into the conspiracy theory I've heard from others that SVB does get "catered" to by certain pool entities.
 
CreeDo said:
And so was the crying about Shane getting some sort of preferential treatment on a push foul.

On the stream, Ken explained the controversy that caused Jeremy Jones to quit his
US Open 1p match with shane after just 2 or 3 racks.
Shane never asked for the ball to be spun. Instead he called the ref over and
pointed to the object ball, which Ken confirms had an obvious black
scuff mark at the contact point. Shane was wordlessly indicating the ball needed cleaning.

Ken didn't have his ball marker available for some reason, so he didn't want to pick up
the ball and clean it and then risk not putting it back exactly. So he compromised
by just spinning the ball without moving it.

Shane was apparently ok with this but Jeremy flipped out.
Ken did acknowledges this was not a professional way to handle it and won't do it again.

Shortly before that, JJ was bothered because Shane asked a ref
"if I shoot straight into this shot, is that a foul?" ...he apparently felt like this
is sort of like asking the ref for advice, which they're forbidden to give.

But Shane was just asking "If I do this is that a foul?" which is a rules question.
The ref isn't giving advice by just stating "yes, shooting into the ball is a foul"
or "no, shooting into the ball is not a foul". If the ref said "you should shoot
at an angle away from the ball", THEN you could make the case he's giving advice.

The other commentator (is that watchez?) suggested Jeremy was maybe a little
disheartened by his tough draw. Still seems pretty lame to me, forfeiting over nothing.
Click to expand...

that's pretty much what I heard happened too. However, I seriously doubt JJ was disheartened by his draw...lol.
 
Txstang1 said:
that's pretty much what I heard happened too. However, I seriously doubt JJ was disheartened by his draw...lol.
Click to expand...

Care to offer why you don't think he would be a bit disheartened by it? Regardless of one's skill level as a pro, I doubt they would want to face such tough competition right out of the gate.
 
PocketSpeed11 said:
Care to offer why you don't think he would be a bit disheartened by it? Regardless of one's skill level as a pro, I doubt they would want to face such tough competition right out of the gate.
Click to expand...

Because when you play that tournament there all tough draws and you make it sound like shane is the clear favorite against jj playing one pocket.
 
ScottyDzntKnow said:
Because when you play that tournament there all tough draws and you make it sound like shane is the clear favorite against jj playing one pocket.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter who the favorite is, JJ would have a better chance against many of the other players in the tournament.
 
PocketSpeed11 said:
Doesn't matter who the favorite is, JJ would have a better chance against many of the other players in the tournament.
Click to expand...

That's the difference betweens pro's and amateurs. Have you ever heard a top player say " oh man I have to play that guy " my point is jeremy didn't get mad because he drew Shane.
 
PolarBear said:
Sounds like Scotty Does Know.. :-) Pray tell, why did he get mad then?
Click to expand...

More like he doesn't. Nobody said he was mad that he drew Shane. They said he was disheartened.

In my own opinion, he might have been a little disheartened at drawing Shane. What I think affected him more, however, was his preconceived notion that Shane receives special treatment. I watched the match and it seemed like JJ was already on edge. The mood was already set. What made him mad were the incidents during the match.
 
ScottyDzntKnow said:
That's the difference betweens pro's and amateurs. Have you ever heard a top player say " oh man I have to play that guy " my point is jeremy didn't get mad because he drew Shane.
Click to expand...

I bet plenty of pro players have said that about drawing Earl.
 
It's not to say that everything Ken said isn't the truth. However, just because the guy accused of showing favoritism basically came out to say "I wasn't playing favorites" doesn't mean he wasn't.

On another note, maybe kens not suppose to do anything when a player "accidently" moves an object ball, and the other player doesn't notice, and the player moving the ball says nothing. But it seems pretty bad that ken jumps out of the booth to yell at Corey to change his rack, but svb can move a problem ball without a pocket with the magic rack to where it has a pocket, and ken just has a conversation with frost about how it really helps him to run out.

Again, the rules may say a ref isn't suppose to do anything, but in the fairness of the game and sportsmanship the tourney director should be able to do something.
 
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ScottyDzntKnow said:
That's the difference betweens pro's and amateurs. Have you ever heard a top player say " oh man I have to play that guy " my point is jeremy didn't get mad because he drew Shane.
Click to expand...

Most tournament players I know (pros included) want their first match to be against someone they know they can beat, but will be a challenge. They don't want a bye or complete hack to play against. They want to get in stroke by playing someone close to their speed, but not at or above.
 
PocketSpeed11 said:
More like he doesn't. Nobody said he was mad that he drew Shane. They said he was disheartened.

In my own opinion, he might have been a little disheartened at drawing Shane. What I think affected him more, however, was his preconceived notion that Shane receives special treatment. I watched the match and it seemed like JJ was already on edge. The mood was already set. What made him mad were the incidents during the match.
Click to expand...
You hit it on the head ! He felt they were kissing shanes ass.
 
Diamond69 said:
Most tournament players I know (pros included) want their first match to be against someone they know they can beat, but will be a challenge. They don't want a bye or complete hack to play against. They want to get in stroke by playing someone close to their speed, but not at or above.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't really believe a player doesn't want a bye, or a player they are a big favorite against.
 
CreeDo said:
And so was the crying about Shane getting some sort of preferential treatment on a push foul.

On the stream, Ken explained the controversy that caused Jeremy Jones to quit his
US Open 1p match with shane after just 2 or 3 racks.
Shane never asked for the ball to be spun. Instead he called the ref over and
pointed to the object ball, which Ken confirms had an obvious black
scuff mark at the contact point. Shane was wordlessly indicating the ball needed cleaning.

Ken didn't have his ball marker available for some reason, so he didn't want to pick up
the ball and clean it and then risk not putting it back exactly. So he compromised
by just spinning the ball without moving it.

Shane was apparently ok with this but Jeremy flipped out.
Ken did acknowledges this was not a professional way to handle it and won't do it again.

Shortly before that, JJ was bothered because Shane asked a ref
"if I shoot straight into this shot, is that a foul?" ...he apparently felt like this
is sort of like asking the ref for advice, which they're forbidden to give.

But Shane was just asking "If I do this is that a foul?" which is a rules question.
The ref isn't giving advice by just stating "yes, shooting into the ball is a foul"
or "no, shooting into the ball is not a foul". If the ref said "you should shoot
at an angle away from the ball", THEN you could make the case he's giving advice.

The other commentator (is that watchez?) suggested Jeremy was maybe a little
disheartened by his tough draw. Still seems pretty lame to me, forfeiting over nothing.
Click to expand...

Actually you are not allowed to ask "if i do this is it a foul?". The players are required to know the rules and what constitutes a foul or not,
 
thebighurt said:
Actually you are not allowed to ask "if i do this is it a foul?". The players are required to know the rules and what constitutes a foul or not,
Click to expand...

But asking "if I shoot the cue ball straight into these balls, is it a foul?" is not a rules clarification. Shane knows the rules. He's trying to ask "if I take this shot, will you not call a foul on me, even if it turns out I don't hit my own ball first?"

It's a weasely question, and the official should only respond with "If you hit the other player's ball first, it's ball in hand."
 
Diamond69 said:
Most tournament players I know (pros included) want their first match to be against someone they know they can beat, but will be a challenge. They don't want a bye or complete hack to play against. They want to get in stroke by playing someone close to their speed, but not at or above.
Click to expand...


they are seeded as a rule so they win their first match , gets them closer to the $$$, nobody ever wants to have a hard first match EVER, not in a million years, it happens from time to time and they dont like it. i dont blame them if i was playing for a living i dont want to play Mika out the gate and have to play thru the losers side. thats just dumb, i want to play a B player and win 11-2, one match closer to the $$$ matches. then let the savers begin....on that note, they do savers if they have a bad draw first match sometimes.
 
If you don't know the rule, you take your chances.

I believe asking a referee if you shoot a shot in a certain way, is that a foul is against the rules, but I am not a referee but I want to say that I once asked a similar question of a referee and was met my stone silence. Then he finally relented and said I cannot give you advice on a shot and said that he would discuss the shot and the rule with me after I took the shot. :grin: It's been a lot of years since that happened and I could easily have morphed the circumstances.

Like all players, you should know the rules. Imagine if every player in the tournament asked a question during each match and asked for a yes or no answer.

That being said, each tournament seems to have their own perspective about shooting into a frozen object ball (frozen to the cue ball) or shooting away from it. I would have tried to get a straight answer too.:grin:

JoeyA
 
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