Yes, I am aware but thank you for clarifying for anyone that didnt. I only added this to the discussion as another angle in regards to what was initially being discussed.
"Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)?
- Thread starter Kickin' Chicken
- Start date
Yes, I am aware but thank you for clarifying for anyone that didnt. I only added this to the discussion as another angle in regards to what was initially being discussed.
This has been a good discussion and many folks have provided some very good points. With that said, I am going to stick with my earlier sentiment that while not all but I'd bet a good portion of people that have posted in this thread saying this or that are saying one thing here on AZ but when it comes down to it while they are out in the pool hall or bar would actually do the complete opposite . People like money and that is just a fact. If they fall as backwards into what looks like will turn into a score I'm saying they are gonna get that money - plain and simple . No need to argue or rebut this because this is only my personal opinion and there really is no way of proving or disproving it.
imo honesty is just one piece of the puzzle that contributes to whether a person is decent or not. There are lots of other factors.
Is it okay to have *any* larceny in our blood? And if so, how much is okay?
Was Toupee Jay Helfert a bad man for giving himself an edge going into towns with or without the hairpiece?
Or to be considered bad does it have to rise to the level of, saya Bernie Madoff, whose schemes bankrupted and ruined so many good people who placed their trust in him?
Is there a difference in these two examples?
best,
brian kc
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If you are ok with what you do then why do you need to hear it's ok from others?
PoolChump
Banned
Stealing is stealing. Sleazy.
Just for conversations sake, could you " define " stealing as it relates to " hustling, or gambling specifically ? I wasn't totally sure exactly what we were talking about for a good bit of this thread, ie were we talking about laying down, were we talking about dressing up in costumes so people won't recognize you? The way I'm taking it now is we are talking about is laying down on your speed in an effort to make your opponent think they have a chance at winning when in reality they have absolutely no chance what so ever ? So if that is in fact the case I have a hard time calling that stealing, to me I think it would be more along the lines of lying wouldn't it? So anyway can you break it down for me as far as the stealing part?
Hustling is nothing new. I am not good enough to hustle, nor would i. However if someone keeps gambling and losing against someone in a head to head skill. I think that's on them. They have a gambling issue. Now you may ask. Is it OK to take advantage of someone with a gambling issue or not? Take the same scenario but the two are evenly matched. One player loses the first game or set. Now they may have played with money the couldn't afford to lose. So now they need to win it back. However they have added pressure and keep losing. Yet they keep betting they can win. Is that still hustling or just taking advantage of someone. If someone can't see they can't win. That's on them.
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To me, misrepresenting your true speed, and/or laying down, is the part about the "hustle" that I find....closer to the topic of the thread.
If people have a general idea how other folks play and want to gamble, that's cool. Find a spot you agree on and run with it.
If someone comes in and woofs and barks about how good they are and does anyone wanna play, sure. They get what they ask for in that instance.
But to purposefully play poorly in order to convince someone to try and gamble with you is deceptive, at the least.
Not gonna be an issue to me, as I can't play well enough to gamble, and if I choose to do so, it'll only be with the people I know for very low stakes. If the whole "hustle" turns people on, great. I don't like it, but it's not gonna affect me.
Of course this automatically classifies me as a nit, I'm sure. I'm ok with that.
If people have a general idea how other folks play and want to gamble, that's cool. Find a spot you agree on and run with it.
If someone comes in and woofs and barks about how good they are and does anyone wanna play, sure. They get what they ask for in that instance.
But to purposefully play poorly in order to convince someone to try and gamble with you is deceptive, at the least.
Not gonna be an issue to me, as I can't play well enough to gamble, and if I choose to do so, it'll only be with the people I know for very low stakes. If the whole "hustle" turns people on, great. I don't like it, but it's not gonna affect me.
Of course this automatically classifies me as a nit, I'm sure. I'm ok with that.
Ya know since we are on this subject, I know that I myself have been hustled at least a couple times particularly early on in my pool career and I never got mad or upset. One particular story comes to mind and I've actually posted it here before.
I was about 14 and had just started going to the infamous Jack & Jills. This was a very big deal to me as this was known to be " the place where the players and action are ". I was a little nervous and probably a little shy or maybe starstruck might be a better term . This was due to all of the really great players everywhere, stacks of cash on top of every light, a dice game over in the corner and probably 5 tables with card games going. So this guy comes over to me in these old farmers overalls and asked me did I wanna play some. I said no, I did not know who he was and never has seen him play but I did know I was WAY outclassed by just about everybody in the joint. He says come on give me the 7 ball! I'm like yeah right! No F'n way! He says you can't lose! He said you give me the 7 ball and I'm only gonna shoot with one hand! And I'm not even gonna use any rails or anything!
So this is still early in my pool career and I certainly was no champ but I thought I played decent enough, for sure good enough to beat a guy that's only using one hand! I'm stealing, I'm thinking to myself . This is gonna be my first time in action in the infamous Jack & Jills AND IM STEALING!!! So he says what do u a wanna play for ? I say race to 7 for a honey. He says, sure kid rackem up. So we start playing and it's kinda close and he wasn't really doing anything special that I could see. This guy was lucky! Seemso like every time he misses he gets lucky and doesn't leave me a shot. He also NEVER misses a money ball. No runs over 2 or 3 balls, he didn't need to cause admittedly I was nervous and not playing great by any means - so he's not beating me, I BEATING MYSELF!
So he wins the first set. Next set I've gotten over the nervousness and playing much better. Thing is now those 2 or 3 ball runs have turned into 4 or 5 ball runs. About half way thru the second set I realized I was Def in a bad game. So I lose the second set and I tell the guy look, I know I'm Def in a bad game but the stuff you're doing is amazing and I'll keep playing but only if you give me a good show. I want you to play top speed because there is not going to any adjusting , there is going to be no next time, so you can take the $200 and that will be it or give me a show and I'll keep playing . So he turns around and looks at his backer to see what to do. The backer sits and thinks for a few seconds and says ah what the hell give him a show - I like this kid.
So what happened over the next two sets was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. Break and run outs from everywhere - jacked up one handed! Cue ball in the center of the table and this guy is drilling dead center pocket, AND drawing the rock table and a half , three rail positions, jumping balls AND MAKING THE - ONE HANDED JACKED UP!!! Absolutely amazing stuff. So after the 4th set was over I shook his hand and told him how amazing that was. As it turned out that was the one and only time me and this guy ever gambled. Over the course of the next year or so he and I became friends. I loved watching him play. He introduced me to one pocket, which was his best game. He started teaching me stuff and working with me on one pocket when he was not in action. I certainly did not know this when I played him those 4 sets one handed, but at one point this guy was top 3 in the world in one pocket! This is the guy in a lot of JAM's road stories. Yup, the one , the only, The Almighty Geese!
So the point is I totally got hustled. I wasn't mad in the least. He taught me some valuable lessons early on that I still carry with me today. Just as hustling is a skill and an art form, learning how to identify someone on the lemon is just as big of a skill and probably more important. Ya know what, everyone will have their opinions and that's fine but to me it's just a part of pool, gambling, and it is what it is - nothing more nothing less.
I was about 14 and had just started going to the infamous Jack & Jills. This was a very big deal to me as this was known to be " the place where the players and action are ". I was a little nervous and probably a little shy or maybe starstruck might be a better term . This was due to all of the really great players everywhere, stacks of cash on top of every light, a dice game over in the corner and probably 5 tables with card games going. So this guy comes over to me in these old farmers overalls and asked me did I wanna play some. I said no, I did not know who he was and never has seen him play but I did know I was WAY outclassed by just about everybody in the joint. He says come on give me the 7 ball! I'm like yeah right! No F'n way! He says you can't lose! He said you give me the 7 ball and I'm only gonna shoot with one hand! And I'm not even gonna use any rails or anything!
So this is still early in my pool career and I certainly was no champ but I thought I played decent enough, for sure good enough to beat a guy that's only using one hand! I'm stealing, I'm thinking to myself . This is gonna be my first time in action in the infamous Jack & Jills AND IM STEALING!!! So he says what do u a wanna play for ? I say race to 7 for a honey. He says, sure kid rackem up. So we start playing and it's kinda close and he wasn't really doing anything special that I could see. This guy was lucky! Seemso like every time he misses he gets lucky and doesn't leave me a shot. He also NEVER misses a money ball. No runs over 2 or 3 balls, he didn't need to cause admittedly I was nervous and not playing great by any means - so he's not beating me, I BEATING MYSELF!
So he wins the first set. Next set I've gotten over the nervousness and playing much better. Thing is now those 2 or 3 ball runs have turned into 4 or 5 ball runs. About half way thru the second set I realized I was Def in a bad game. So I lose the second set and I tell the guy look, I know I'm Def in a bad game but the stuff you're doing is amazing and I'll keep playing but only if you give me a good show. I want you to play top speed because there is not going to any adjusting , there is going to be no next time, so you can take the $200 and that will be it or give me a show and I'll keep playing . So he turns around and looks at his backer to see what to do. The backer sits and thinks for a few seconds and says ah what the hell give him a show - I like this kid.
So what happened over the next two sets was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. Break and run outs from everywhere - jacked up one handed! Cue ball in the center of the table and this guy is drilling dead center pocket, AND drawing the rock table and a half , three rail positions, jumping balls AND MAKING THE - ONE HANDED JACKED UP!!! Absolutely amazing stuff. So after the 4th set was over I shook his hand and told him how amazing that was. As it turned out that was the one and only time me and this guy ever gambled. Over the course of the next year or so he and I became friends. I loved watching him play. He introduced me to one pocket, which was his best game. He started teaching me stuff and working with me on one pocket when he was not in action. I certainly did not know this when I played him those 4 sets one handed, but at one point this guy was top 3 in the world in one pocket! This is the guy in a lot of JAM's road stories. Yup, the one , the only, The Almighty Geese!
So the point is I totally got hustled. I wasn't mad in the least. He taught me some valuable lessons early on that I still carry with me today. Just as hustling is a skill and an art form, learning how to identify someone on the lemon is just as big of a skill and probably more important. Ya know what, everyone will have their opinions and that's fine but to me it's just a part of pool, gambling, and it is what it is - nothing more nothing less.
No to mention all of the "two brothers and a friend" nonsense. I have no problem with people honestly gambling, although I don;t personally do it on things like golf or billiards. But when there is hiding who you are, hiding your ability, lying, fraud and just a general attitude of anything goes that puts a dollar in my pocket - then the folks doing it are eluding themselves if they do not realize they are basically crooks.
So I guess that makes me a nit and a flat as well. Oh, well, I'm OK with that, too.
PoolChump
Banned
Hustling is sleazy! :thumbup:
PoolChump
Banned
I got LUCKY! No...you didn't get lucky. You are a sleazy hustler. Hustler's are liars and deceivers. Period.
PoolChump
Banned
Hustling is the deceptive act of disguising one's skill
in a sport or game with the intent of luring someone of probably lesser skill into gambling (or gambling for higher than current stakes) with the hustler, as a form of both a confidence trick and match fixing.
Hustling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HustlingWikipedia
in a sport or game with the intent of luring someone of probably lesser skill into gambling (or gambling for higher than current stakes) with the hustler, as a form of both a confidence trick and match fixing.Hustling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HustlingWikipedia
dj ferrell
Registered
So last night I go into local bar. It has two tables and no one is playing in either. I rack 9 ball and am just about to break when a guy asks if I wanna play him. I said sure go ahead and break. He looks at the rack, realizes it's 9 ball and asks if we can play 8 ball instead. At this point im kinda annoyed but I say sure gnats fine, just being nice. I rack the balls and the guys asks what we are playing for? I said for fun. He says no lets play for a drink. I say ok I guess so. He breaks makes one or two more and misses. I hook him he misses I run out. He buys me a beer and says do it again for $10. I say sure. I break dry, he runs 6 and misses I run out. He says you got lucky and I say yeah probably so. He asks do it again for $20. I say sure. I break make 2 miss. He runs 6 and misses. I run out. At this point the whole place is watching this "kid" (me, I'm 28 but look about 16 lol) take this guys money and he's pissed about it. We do it again for $50 and then again for $100. He says he's tapped out. He then asks me just how old are you anyways? I tell him 28 and the look on his face was priceless... He thought he was gonna rob some kid that had never played before lol. So who was in the wrong? The guy who "thought" he was stealing, or the guy who "knew" he was stealing? Lol
Great question and it is a tough one because it depends on each persons sense of moral responsibility.
There are two groups in the discussion in this thread pro and anti hustle depending on how you define it. I don't think either side would classify your story as hustling (I've been wrong before though lol)
Good story regardless
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My post was strictly from your point of view. The guy who tries to rob kids of their video game money is an assGreat question and it is a tough one because it depends on each persons sense of moral responsibility.
There are two groups in the discussion in this thread pro and anti hustle depending on how you define it. I don't think either side would classify your story as hustling (I've been wrong before though lol)
Good story regardless
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dj ferrell
Registered
Yeah I agree... And gnats exactly what he thought he was doing.
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