Hyptnotism

chefjeff said:
Isn't hypnosis the process (externally or internally enacted) of bypassing the conscious mind and putting orders or suggestions into the willing subconscious mind directly?

Jeff Livingston
I believe you are essentially correct Jeff.

However, I think the terms conscious and sub-conscious are too simplistic to describe the working of the human mind. In fact we have a limited understanding of the mind and few appropriate words/terms to use in describing how it works. Take that into mind with my following definitions.

The mind can be said to comprise of a feeling-desire aspect and a rightness-reason aspect. Feeling and desire are opposite but complimentary aspects of one level of mind and rightness and reason are complimentary aspects of a higher mind. The base mind is refered to as the doer mind.

To give an example of how this operates I offer the following:

When one is governed by expediency, nature or sense impressions control feeling, feeling arouses desire, desire ignores rightness and forces reason and so desire has its way...controlling response / action / thought.

When one is self-governed from within, the process is very different, such that rightness guides feeling, which prompts desire, which agrees with reason...hence response / action / thought is governed by rightness and reason as is feeling and desire.

Hypnosis: is an artificial state of sleep produced on a subject who suffers himself to be hypnotized. The subject is or makes himself to be negative to the hypnotist, who must be positive. The subject surrenders his feeling-desire to the feeling-desire of the hypnotist and by so doing surrenders control of his breath-form (the storage base of memory) and use of his senses. The hypnotist hypnotizes the subject by using any or all of his own electric-magnetic force through the eyes or voice and hands of his subject and by repeatedly telling him that he is going to sleep and that he is asleep. Submitting to the suggestion of sleep the subject is put to sleep. Having submitted himself, his breath form and senses to the control of the hypnotist, the subject is in a condition to obey the orders and do anything commanded by the hypnotist without knowing what exactly he is doing -- except that he cannot be made to commit a crime or perform an immoral act unless he would in his waking state so do or act. A hypnotist assumes a grave responsibility when he hypnotizes anyone. The subject must suffer through long periods for allowing himself to be controlled by another. each should practice self-control until he is self-controlled. Then he will not control another or allow another to control him.

Self-Hypnosis: is the intentional putting oneself into the state of deep sleep by hypnotizing and controlling oneself by oneself. The purpose of the self-hypnotism is to be self-controlled. In self-hypnosis he considers what he would like to do that he is unable to do. Then, acting as the hypnotist, he clearly instructs himself to issue these commands to himself when he is in the hypnotic sleep. Then by suggestion he puts himself to sleep by telling himself that he is going to sleep, and finally that he is asleep. In the hypnotic sleep he commands himself to do the things in time and place. When he has so commanded himself, he returns to the waking state. Awake he does as bidden to do. In this practice one must in no respect deceive himself, esle he will be confused and fail in self-control.

Anyone still reading...congratulations! :D
 
Last edited:
drivermaker said:
I asked you to please tell us everything you know about the subject.

Oh man...forgive me...my mistake. I guess you just did. :eek: :D

Hey...in all seriousness, I hope you do well in the tournaments. If you don't, you'll be able to keep this place jumpin' with threads containing all of your problems.

"I CAN'T BREAK FOR SHIT, WHAT SHOULD I DO....I GOT MY ASS WHIPPED BY A HACK, HOW CAN I COME BACK...WHAT TIP GETS THE BEST ACTION DUE TO CORIOLIS FORCE WHEN I'M IN A DIFFERENT HEMISPHERE...DOES MELATONIN REALLY WORK FOR JET LAG...I GOT HYPNOTIZED BY D. BASAVICH AFTER HE TOOK 45 MINUTES TO RUN A RACK, NOW I ACT LIKE A TREE...CAN THE SPOTS ON THE MEASLES CB BE USED AS NUMBERS IN JOE T's AIMING SYSTEM...HOW DO YOU STOP GAINING WEIGHT WHEN YOUR DIET CONSISTS OF McDONALDS EVERY MEAL...WHAT IS THE BEST AMERICAN CUSTOM CUE THAT I CAN BUY FOR 10,546,324 YEN...WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO STOP MARISSA FROM BEING AT EVERY SINGLE EVENT AND HOUNDING EVERYONE...
WHY HAS MY BANK ACCOUNT SUDDENLY BEEN GETTING MORE AND MORE DEPLETED.

Have fun and we're looking forward to those threads. :D

Damn that's some good stuff! Want to co-author a book? :D

It sounds like you've been reading Fast Larry's commentary on his UPA tour debut experiences over at www.billiards-club.net forum :eek: :D
 
chefjeff said:
tap tap tap, me, too.

Isn't hypnosis the process (eternally or internally enacted) of bypassing the conscious mind and putting orders or suggestions into the willing subconscious mind directly?

Hey Jeff. Keep in mind after hypnosis and as soon as you have an off day and start missing shots along with position, those deep routed subconscious triggers will take over. Your subconscious is filled with an attitude of experience over time. In order to achieve what goals you want, you need to erase all of your memories and triggers.

I think the only thing that can help at all (haven't tried a single one) would be some form of mental exercise that allows someone to relax as I think Colin mentioned. Relaxation at least helps your mind become less active which is normally what stops us from achieving the Zone. Relaxation helps you in forming your thoughts of trusting and believing, not create a player that will not choke or a player that shots better than they are capable of shooting.

With this said, hypnotism will probably do nothing and relaxation may at the very best help us get into a more focused mode, that is until we start missing.
 
Last year during various Nationwide Golf Tour events that were being televised on The Golf Channel, they chose selected players that were in contention and asked them if they would mind being wired for their heart rate throughout the event and having it monitored and televised as they were playing. First of all, a normal heartbeat is around 72-84 as we tool around doing our everyday activities.

However, in the heat of competition while these pro's were playing, their heartbeat was around 125 throughout the entire period...BUT, when they would get over a putt which required little physical activity but greatly increased the stress factor, anxiety and nerves...they would spike to over 140!! I would imagine that the players who WEREN'T in contention had nowhere near the heart rate increase compared to those that were.
This has a tremendous affect on how the nerves fire and the muscles react.

On another note, last week on one of the cable channels they had a 3 day grueling event for military rangers that taxed them to their physical and mental limits to see who could get through all of it and come out on top.

It involved sleep and food deprivation...strength, endurance, agility, shooting, throwing, and team-work exercises that took them to the limits...some of whom just couldn't even finish.

One event stands out for me where they forced them to run a certain distance within a specific time frame to get their hearts racing and their nerves jangled and then they had to shoot rifles at a variety of targets
for scoring purposes. ALL of them were EXPERT riflemen...but under those conditions of a racing heart and nerves you couldn't believe how BADLY some of them were missing their targets. The guns were wavering and jumping out of their hands.

Another event also had them running to get their heart rate up and then throwing an hatchet to a target and some were very good and others weren't good at all...even though they were excellent under normal circumstances.

They sell heart monitors at Sports Authority and other places on the internet. I think it would be a very interesting study to have someone place it on themself under normal practice conditions or playing with someone for nothing...and then compare it to what's happening under tournament, gambling, or other situations where it gets you tied up into a knot more than usual.

It's not only mental, but what the mental does to the physical in being able to control those functions better as well as perform at your best, or better than others that you're playing against.

I've seen a lot of super players in both pool and golf over the years that looked like they could be world class, but cave in like a tire with a nail in it when the heat came on because they were just out of control.
And then you ask them afterwards if they were nervous and 9 out of 10 would say, "No, not at all". BULLSHIT...they weren't even aware of what was happening or too proud to admit it!
 
drivermaker said:
Last year during various Nationwide Golf Tour events that were being televised on The Golf Channel, they chose selected players that were in contention and asked them if they would mind being wired for their heart rate throughout the event and having it monitored and televised as they were playing. First of all, a normal heartbeat is around 72-84 as we tool around doing our everyday activities.

However, in the heat of competition while these pro's were playing, their heartbeat was around 125 throughout the entire period...BUT, when they would get over a putt which required little physical activity but greatly increased the stress factor, anxiety and nerves...they would spike to over 140!! I would imagine that the players who WEREN'T in contention had nowhere near the heart rate increase compared to those that were.
This has a tremendous affect on how the nerves fire and the muscles react.

On another note, last week on one of the cable channels they had a 3 day grueling event for military rangers that taxed them to their physical and mental limits to see who could get through all of it and come out on top.

It involved sleep and food deprivation...strength, endurance, agility, shooting, throwing, and team-work exercises that took them to the limits...some of whom just couldn't even finish.

One event stands out for me where they forced them to run a certain distance within a specific time frame to get their hearts racing and their nerves jangled and then they had to shoot rifles at a variety of targets
for scoring purposes. ALL of them were EXPERT riflemen...but under those conditions of a racing heart and nerves you couldn't believe how BADLY some of them were missing their targets. The guns were wavering and jumping out of their hands.

Another event also had them running to get their heart rate up and then throwing an hatchet to a target and some were very good and others weren't good at all...even though they were excellent under normal circumstances.

They sell heart monitors at Sports Authority and other places on the internet. I think it would be a very interesting study to have someone place it on themself under normal practice conditions or playing with someone for nothing...and then compare it to what's happening under tournament, gambling, or other situations where it gets you tied up into a knot more than usual.

It's not only mental, but what the mental does to the physical in being able to control those functions better as well as perform at your best, or better than others that you're playing against.

I've seen a lot of super players in both pool and golf over the years that looked like they could be world class, but cave in like a tire with a nail in it when the heat came on because they were just out of control.
And then you ask them afterwards if they were nervous and 9 out of 10 would say, "No, not at all". BULLSHIT...they weren't even aware of what was happening or too proud to admit it!

Very good stuff DM, ezpecially the last point! Players regularly delude themselves.

As for 'caving in like a nailed tire' I like the expression 'Tensed up like an eyeball full of mace'. :p

One of my main interests in watching matches is analyzing how players deal with pressure situations mentally and then in their delivery.
 
I've been hypnotized before, but not for pool. I found it to be a very good experience. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, there were no pocket watches, no swirling circles and no sleeping involved. I was awake during the entire time and was aware of everything that happened. Hypnosis is nothing more than daydreaming. When your mind is in this state, you are relaxed and you are more likely to take suggestions that you want to. Anything that you would not normally accept, will just be rejected by your mind.

Oddly enough, the experience of being hypnotized was very similar to when I get into 'dead stroke'. After the match is over, I have the feeling that I just daydreamed the entire thing and have just snapped out of it.
 
Colin Colenso said:
One of my main interests in watching matches is analyzing how players deal with pressure situations mentally and then in their delivery.


One of MY main interests is in watching my opponent and analyzing how HE deals with pressure situations mentally and then in the delivery.

It serves a dual purpose for me...(1) it gets me to thinking about how HE is going to screw up in time and gets my mind off of myself as far as over analyzing anything while I'm shooting. If I watch everything that he does in his stroke, his setup, how many backstrokes he takes as well as time between each shot, etc., and he suddenly starts changing something up, I know something is getting to him and his mind is working harder and HIS nerves are acting up.
(2) When it does happen, it frees me up even more to relax and know that his ass is puckering to where it flows even better.

And then there are those times when you don't see the SOB breaking down and you know it's gonna be a long night or you need to find easier prey.

A lot of guys like to just play the table. Not me. Oh sure, you gotta play the table when it's your turn...but I want to get his every move and nuance down pat...win, lose, or draw.
 
I was having challenges with missing easy shots and getting real nervous during tournaments, so I asked for help from a good friend (Barry Jones )who is a professional hypnotist...

It was not easy for me, as I am a total control freak, and would NEVER allow myself to be hypnotized in the past, but my pool game was just that important to me, and I really trusted this guy.

He gave me one session, and a book called (believe it or not) Hypnosis for Dummies, and with what he did, and the book, I put together an 11 minute audio that I recorded into my iPod. This was followed by a 1.5 minute closing in two flavors, one for playing just before sleep, and another for playing just before competition.

I listened to this audio every night for several months, just before sleep. After a few weeks I would fall asleep within 2-5 minutes (way faster than normal) so most of the time I never got through the full session.

Of course, even with the value of hindsight, it is impossible to be certain that the self-hypnosis routines were any value at all. But what I can say for sure is that when I started using them I was a C-level player. Now, a year later, I am an A-level player, and I sure don't get nervous and seldom miss easy shots. I feel comfortable during tournaments, have much improved focus/concentration, and best of all, I win more than my share of matches.

Take it for what it's worth...
 
Hypnois: No magic bullet, but probably worth a try

I don't reply to many posts, but this one caught my eye. Having published on the topic of hypnosis in professional journals and completed a doctoral dissertation on measurements of hypnotic depth, I thought my background gives me a reasonable basis for having an opinion on this topic. First, let me point out that numerous studies have shown that one cannot transcend ones normal capacities by the use of hypnotic suggestion. In other words, hypnosis doesn't give you supernatural abilities or capacities. Reports of super memory, super strength, etc. have never held up in carefully done research studies. Second, let me give you an opinion, based on over 40 years of experience and research: allowing oneself to be hypnotized is quite safe as long as you are working with an ethical professional. So, as the title of this post suggests, trying hypnosis to improve athletic performance is a low risk proposition and may help.
 
BillPorter said:
I don't reply to many posts, but this one caught my eye. Having published on the topic of hypnosis in professional journals and completed a doctoral dissertation on measurements of hypnotic depth, I thought my background gives me a reasonable basis for having an opinion on this topic. First, let me point out that numerous studies have shown that one cannot transcend ones normal capacities by the use of hypnotic suggestion. In other words, hypnosis doesn't give you supernatural abilities or capacities. Reports of super memory, super strength, etc. have never held up in carefully done research studies. Second, let me give you an opinion, based on over 40 years of experience and research: allowing oneself to be hypnotized is quite safe as long as you are working with an ethical professional. So, as the title of this post suggests, trying hypnosis to improve athletic performance is a low risk proposition and may help.
Bill,
It's great to find an expert posting here.

When you say that 'allowing oneself to be hypnotised is safe', what evidence is there to support this?

The un-safe aspects which I refered to are somewhat hard to prove. A reduction in ability to be in control of one's own decision faculties. Perhaps a long term study of participants who have been put under hypnosis regularly, to test them for levels of happiness, decisiveness with new challenges is on order. This is something nearly impossible to do, and I doubt any studies have been done that could answer these questions.

Perhaps these questions are best looked into through metaphysical or philosophical analysis, lacking as they are in emperical evidence.

Then again, I find the emperical method entirely inappropriate for the social sciences. For example, I believe the apriory methodology of the Austrian School of Economics is far superior to the emperical economic methods such as used in Keynesian econometrics and econometrics in making sense of the world of human economic action.
 
Last edited:
Colin Colenso said:
Then again, I find the emperical method entirely inappropriate for the social sciences. For example, I believe the apriory methodology of the Austrian School of Economics is far superior to the emperical economic methods such as used in Keynesian econometrics and econometrics in making sense of the world of human economic action.

Do you ever talk like a normal person? You give me a headache.

BTW, you flamed another expert in this thread. Just keeping score. :D
 
Me too ...

drivermaker said:
One of MY main interests is in watching my opponent and analyzing how HE deals with pressure situations mentally and then in the delivery.

It serves a dual purpose for me...(1) it gets me to thinking about how HE is going to screw up in time and gets my mind off of myself as far as over analyzing anything while I'm shooting. If I watch everything that he does in his stroke, his setup, how many backstrokes he takes as well as time between each shot, etc., and he suddenly starts changing something up, I know something is getting to him and his mind is working harder and HIS nerves are acting up.
(2) When it does happen, it frees me up even more to relax and know that his ass is puckering to where it flows even better.

And then there are those times when you don't see the SOB breaking down and you know it's gonna be a long night or you need to find easier prey.

A lot of guys like to just play the table. Not me. Oh sure, you gotta play the table when it's your turn...but I want to get his every move and nuance down pat...win, lose, or draw.

I do this too. I have always been a student of human nature and behavior,
even before I started playing. and it has been real useful to me. I also
like to know how the other person thinks, because if you know how the
other person thinks, it helps you identify their strengths and weaknesses,
and if you know those for sure, you can defeat them in Pool. Their actions
will give you insight to their thoughts and decision making. I went to a
seminar for a day long time ago, and the speaker said one thing that has
stuck in my head all these years. I did not realize the complete truth
of the statement until later on as I applied it to my own life in many areas,
and to other peoples lives. It is nothing stupendous, but it is true.

"You move towards what you think about". I kind of passed over it until
I really started thinking about it, and how it applied to different times in
my life, and how I moved towards the things I was thinking about at those
particular times in my life. All of those times were not pleasant, but it
was true.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Bill,
It's great to find an expert posting here.

When you say that 'allowing oneself to be hypnotised is safe', what evidence is there to support this?

The un-safe aspects which I refered to are somewhat hard to prove. A reduction in ability to be in control of one's own decision faculties. Perhaps a long term study of participants who have been put under hypnosis regularly, to test them for levels of happiness, decisiveness with new challenges is on order. This is something nearly impossible to do, and I doubt any studies have been done that could answer these questions.

Perhaps these questions are best looked into through metaphysical or philosophical analysis, lacking as they are in emperical evidence.

Then again, I find the emperical method entirely inappropriate for the social sciences. For example, I believe the apriory methodology of the Austrian School of Economics is far superior to the emperical economic methods such as used in Keynesian econometrics and econometrics in making sense of the world of human economic action.

Given your statement that you find "the emperical (sic) method entirely inappropriate for the social sciences," it would be silly for me to present empirical findings from research in the social sciences. And equally silly for me to get into a long-winded debate with you on the topic. I simply wanted to respond to the original post regarding the possible use of hypnosis to improve performance on the pool table. I have known some of the hypnotic subjects I have worked with since 1963 and have never seen the detrimental effects on decision making or happiness that you suggest. Don't take it personal, but I respectfully decline to enter a debate on the topic with you or with anyone who rejects empirical data in the social sciences. Cheers! ;)
 
Back
Top