i believe i upset a flipper

desi2960

desi2960

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Guy pm's me and ask questions about a cue i have in the for sale section, the no ferrule, wood pin, hit, etc etc of my cues. we pm back in forth a few times as i try to explain my way of thinking about cues.

He ask me about adjustable weights, i explain to him.

I build a cue and most of the time i place the weight [ if needed ] in the center of the handle area. couple reasons for this, i like a neutural balanced cue. i hate butt heavy cues. but the number 1 reason i do so is because the weight bolt cannot be changed by just anyone.

I explained to him i build a cue that i want to play a certain way, and if the weight is changed it will NOT play the same.

Also told him i have seen flippers take a 17 1/2 oz cue and try to make it a 21 oz cue and visa-versa this in my opinion will really mess up the balance of the cue.


i did not notice it at the time, but after thinking about it, i looked, he has an excess of 75 trades. hes quite a collector or a flipper

have not heard back from him.
 
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He's gonna take it to a local hack.
He'll have the bottom hand drilled then weight added.:eek:
Like that!
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Chuck, I've had a couple people ask me about a cue and one of the things they want to change is the shaft. I explain in no uncertain terms that my shaft will not change, period. My construction all works in harmony, I changed the taper slightly a couple of times years ago and it changed the feel of the cue, Not happening again. The guy argued if I made it then it would work on my cue?! I took a pass on that build, it had headache and antacid written all over it.
 
Must admit i've passed a few for the same reason basically

Russell Cues said:
Chuck, I've had a couple people ask me about a cue and one of the things they want to change is the shaft. I explain in no uncertain terms that my shaft will not change, period. My construction all works in harmony, I changed the taper slightly a couple of times years ago and it changed the feel of the cue, Not happening again. The guy argued if I made it then it would work on my cue?! I took a pass on that build, it had headache and antacid written all over it.
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Russell Cues said:
Chuck, I've had a couple people ask me about a cue and one of the things they want to change is the shaft. I explain in no uncertain terms that my shaft will not change, period. My construction all works in harmony, I changed the taper slightly a couple of times years ago and it changed the feel of the cue, Not happening again. The guy argued if I made it then it would work on my cue?! I took a pass on that build, it had headache and antacid written all over it.
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I will build the customer a shaft to reasonable differences from my standard taper. I also feel my standard taper will play better, but I give a little on this one because all he has to do is take it to a local repairman and have it retapered. If they do a hack job it reflects on me, so I figure I might as well do it myself and do it right. It will wind up that way anyway so I might as well make sure the ferrule has no lip behind it like many hack retaper jobs produce.
 
Just a question, when someone asks questions and seems to want something other that what you consider to be your style/work/design etc, do you typically think he/she is a flipper ?

BTW, I tell cuemakers that I want one of their cues built as they have found to be best in their eyes. If they ask my opinion I give it. Some cues end up working well for me, others do not. Friends will come over and use my sneakies and often love a cue that I don't use much ... to each his own.

Also I do not sell the cues I buy, so I have no idea what flippers are all about, hence the question. Having said that I have no issue with the concept of buy-low-sell-high ... I just don't do that with cues. The only fellow I know who buys and sells cues most often loses a bit on each and has no problems doing so, he considers that cost to be "rent" :thumbup:

Dave <--- currently tracking a Darrin Hill sneaky .... for another week and a half .... built as Darrin builds cues :thumbup:
 
davek

I spend hrs in an attempt to build a cue that plays as good as I can make it play. A flipper takes that cue to resale and makes changes just to make a profit not caring how it plays.
 
cueman said:
I will build the customer a shaft to reasonable differences from my standard taper. I also feel my standard taper will play better, but I give a little on this one because all he has to do is take it to a local repairman and have it retapered. If they do a hack job it reflects on me, so I figure I might as well do it myself and do it right. It will wind up that way anyway so I might as well make sure the ferrule has no lip behind it like many hack retaper jobs produce.
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I didn't clarify myself to well, go figure. I will make minor changes like you mentioned Chris, what I'm speaking to is going from my taper to say a euro taper or a radical change to "my shafts". If it turns out to only be a minor difference in taper, I can deal with that, I just have to remember mark that shaft as I turn it so I can find it later lol.
 
I had a customer call to have a cue built, repeat customer. He comes by during the build and show me another cue he bought from me. The cue had deep gouges where he had tried to shove the butt down in to the case only to realize that his pocket chalker was at the mouth of the tube. Needless to say there is no way those gouges would ever come out, or the cue look "good" again.

He has been asking me to look at it for trade on the cue I just finished for him. I blatantly told him I had seen the gouges and that there was no way to get that cue smooth again without making it into a pencil. He argues that he cleaned it up, probably by hand sanding, which means it is definitely not round anymore. He thinks he will dump the cue he mangled, probably drunk knowing him, and leave with a brand new cue ? I think not.

If he asks me again I'm going to inlay the crap out of it then sell it, to someone else.
 
desi2960 said:
I spend hrs in an attempt to build a cue that plays as good as I can make it play. A flipper takes that cue to resale and makes changes just to make a profit not caring how it plays.
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I believe that you spend much effort building cues that play as good as you can make it play. I agree that a "flipper" is trying to make a buck reselling a cue (the old buy-low-sell-high routine that has been in practice for millenia). But so suggest that everyone who want to make a change to a cue is a flipper is utter nonsense imo. That is my point.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
I believe that you spend much effort building cues that play as good as you can make it play. I agree that a "flipper" is trying to make a buck reselling a cue (the old buy-low-sell-high routine that has been in practice for millenia). But so suggest that everyone who want to make a change to a cue is a flipper is utter nonsense imo. That is my point.

Dave
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I think Chuck needs to raise his price.
If a flipper can buy his cue directly from him and easily flip it for a profit, then he needs to raise his price.
 
davek

to further explain or try to make it clearer, i am not talking about not, putting a certain tip on a cue, or tapering a shaft the way a customer wants the cue made. i do everything in my power to make my customers happy. BUT

what i am talking about is taking a cue that is already made, a flipper will change the weight bolt to the extreme just to make a sell.

then what happens.

there is a starkey cue out there that plays like shit, just because this guy wanted to make a few bucks.
 
Hi,

I like flippers and if they buy and cue directly from me I always give them a pretty good discount so they can turn a buck.

The way I see it, if a flipper sells one of my cues he is a virtual salesperson and deserves a commission especially if he keeps making deals.

JMO

Rick
 
desi2960 said:
to further explain or try to make it clearer, i am not talking about not, putting a certain tip on a cue, or tapering a shaft the way a customer wants the cue made. i do everything in my power to make my customers happy. BUT

what i am talking about is taking a cue that is already made, a flipper will change the weight bolt to the extreme just to make a sell.

then what happens.

there is a starkey cue out there that plays like shit, just because this guy wanted to make a few bucks.
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I appreciate that you want your cues to play like your cues. For the most part I am not a fan of interchangeable weight bolts in cues.

I also find it hard to believe that you can get any significant increase in value by changing its weight .... never heard of a correlation between cue weight and cue price before.

Dave
 
DaveK said:
I appreciate that you want your cues to play like your cues. For the most part I am not a fan of interchangeable weight bolts in cues.

I also find it hard to believe that you can get any significant increase in value by changing its weight .... never heard of a correlation between cue weight and cue price before.

Dave
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Cues weighing less than 19 oz usually resale for less. Anything under 18.5 will usually have bad resale value.
Ferrules less than 13MM knocks the resale value too. Anything less than 12.5MM really kills it.

Chuck is sweating this out too much. There is nothing you can do to stop others from modifying your cues.
Some might even replace the shafts with a cheap one and keep your shafts.
 
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desi2960 said:
i did not notice it at the time, but after thinking about it, i looked, he has an excess of 75 trades. hes quite a collector or a flipper

have not heard back from him.
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Although I don't like to post in the Ask The Cuemaker forum, I would like to clarify that Itrader does not differentiate between flippers, sellers & aggressive sellers, collectors, trunk monkeys, dealers, etc.
I'm a perfect example because for years I bought cues & cases, many trades, but little sales.
I accidentally collected over150-cues / 70-cases, until my unofficial retirement 2-years ago.
Since I was 2-years away from social security, I decided to sell a cue a week for 100-weeks, and now I'm there and may wait until I'm 65 for SS.
Basically I have survived without dipping into any retirement rollovers, annuities, stocks, because of pool cues.
I would not call myself a flipper, but I have heard people in my situation referred to as the accidental collector.
Recently I have been an active seller on AZ, most of my stuff has been sold locally or in the background, and I am still buying cues and writing BIG checks to cue-builders for some very expensive refinish / restoration work.
I don't want my kids to deal with it when I croak.

Speaking from experience, I think I've figured out why people contact sellers or
cuemakers, get everybody all fired up, then disappear, and cue flipping has little to do with it.
Don't let a big Itrader confuse a good or aggressive seller, with a jack-off.
A positive Itrader is a good thing, the bigger the better, and flippers will be flippers.
Some flippers have big Itraders, but there is a nucleus of people on AZ that actively
buy cues, try them out, and sell them the next day, typically not for profit.
It is surprising to see a cuemaker degrade a guy with 75-positive Itraders.
Now I can see it if the guy is just another jack-off taking up your time, but rarely do
those idiots have big Itraders.
 
I want to ask a serious question... I am not trying to be combative, I am just curious. I have read that I build cues the way "I" want them to play, or the way "I" think they should hit, etc.. etc.. etc...

Can I ask you what in your pool game backs that statement up?

I ask that because I know guys that make cues that can run 100 balls, might string a 2 or 3 pack of 9 ball on you. Searing, Mottey, S. Weston, Tascarella to name a few....

But I am curious to how you qualify those statements. Don't bring any other cuemakers name into it, like this guy doesn't play, or that guy doesn't play... I want to hear YOUR answer.

JV (---doesn't gamble so don't say lets play some... :wink:
 
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