I like watching Pros play on anything. Diamond 7 and 9 and Valleys too. It's all a slightly different game and the B&R percentages are about the same. Everyone has an opinion and I'm damn glad one group doesn't set the stage
I don't consider pool on a bar table to be pool
- Thread starter dnschmidt
- Start date
I almost exclusively play on 9' tables but I don't mind the 7'er's. Some of the best 8 ball matches I've seen have been on 7' tables. One pocket and 14.1 is another matter can't see it being played on anything but a 9' table. Until recently there were only 7' tables available in my county, we now have a room with 9' Diamonds, qiute a change for most of the bar box players.
Banks
Banned
Aren't you just a sweetheart. If we lost people like you because of hall closures, it would actually benefit the game.
I've made it no secret I don't like bar boxes. Some have extolled their virtues & spoke of how 8 ball is tougher on it.
I play rotation, 1 pocket & banks, 14.1. None of the games I enjoy are really suited to these tables. Some will say rotation pool is but it really isn't, amongst skilled players rotation pool on a box is just a break & run shootout.
My main issue with them is I have always felt one of the issues with pool not being regarded as a serious sport is there is not standardized equipment for the sport & that holds it back. I have played numerous sports in my life, pool & golf being the favorites & I truly believe pool is the most difficult sport there is regarding skill set required to be an elite player & it's never done anything, always languishing in the shadows with a reputation of being the choice of louts & layabouts & ne'er do wells when it was once regarded as the sport of kings & that saddens me. Some here in this forum say it's just a game, not a sport which makes it clear to me they've never been in a 36-48 hour grind fest, try that & tell me it's not a sport. I believe & know it is a sport, I believe the most difficult one of all & should be recognized & revered as if once was & I believe lack of standardized equipment doesn't help that.
I've traveled a LOT, both this country & a good bit of the world, always looking for this sport everywhere I've gone, almost always finding it. In the US, especially now, the prevalent equipment in many regions are these god forsaken boxes & relatively no large tracks. What many in the states don't realize is that only here will you find that. In most of the world outside the states there really aren't many to find, it's all large tables. While I'm one of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet,, I'll still say the best players now aren't from here anymore, I attribute that to the decline of this sport here in the US & the prevalence of bar boxes with bangers & drunk league players dreaming of a Vegas trip replacing halls with large tracks and players.
Bar boxes are for bars, hence the name, a footprint that works in a watering hole giving something for those that frequent bars something to do while drinking and attempting to get laid.
I'll leave with this to be contemplated. Considering pool is more popular right now everywhere else in the world but here, that in these countries large tracks are the norm & now the majority of killers are from those places & here it's boxes, bangers & league players with the exception of the elite American players, who as a rule have developed their elite level of skill on large tracks. With all that said could someone explain how downsizing the playing field is a great idea to return this sport to being revered as it once was?
I play rotation, 1 pocket & banks, 14.1. None of the games I enjoy are really suited to these tables. Some will say rotation pool is but it really isn't, amongst skilled players rotation pool on a box is just a break & run shootout.
My main issue with them is I have always felt one of the issues with pool not being regarded as a serious sport is there is not standardized equipment for the sport & that holds it back. I have played numerous sports in my life, pool & golf being the favorites & I truly believe pool is the most difficult sport there is regarding skill set required to be an elite player & it's never done anything, always languishing in the shadows with a reputation of being the choice of louts & layabouts & ne'er do wells when it was once regarded as the sport of kings & that saddens me. Some here in this forum say it's just a game, not a sport which makes it clear to me they've never been in a 36-48 hour grind fest, try that & tell me it's not a sport. I believe & know it is a sport, I believe the most difficult one of all & should be recognized & revered as if once was & I believe lack of standardized equipment doesn't help that.
I've traveled a LOT, both this country & a good bit of the world, always looking for this sport everywhere I've gone, almost always finding it. In the US, especially now, the prevalent equipment in many regions are these god forsaken boxes & relatively no large tracks. What many in the states don't realize is that only here will you find that. In most of the world outside the states there really aren't many to find, it's all large tables. While I'm one of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet,, I'll still say the best players now aren't from here anymore, I attribute that to the decline of this sport here in the US & the prevalence of bar boxes with bangers & drunk league players dreaming of a Vegas trip replacing halls with large tracks and players.
Bar boxes are for bars, hence the name, a footprint that works in a watering hole giving something for those that frequent bars something to do while drinking and attempting to get laid.
I'll leave with this to be contemplated. Considering pool is more popular right now everywhere else in the world but here, that in these countries large tracks are the norm & now the majority of killers are from those places & here it's boxes, bangers & league players with the exception of the elite American players, who as a rule have developed their elite level of skill on large tracks. With all that said could someone explain how downsizing the playing field is a great idea to return this sport to being revered as it once was?
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I have a hard time understanding people that say they love and enjoy something so much, but deny it entirely when everything about it isn't exactly perfect or how they'd expect. Makes me wonder what those people's relationships with other people are like.
I tend to think that something is better than nothing and that is especially true for pool with me. That's why I can spend significant time messing around with 20 inch mini pool table. It's only remotely close to the "real thing" but its close enough for me.
I tend to think that something is better than nothing and that is especially true for pool with me. That's why I can spend significant time messing around with 20 inch mini pool table. It's only remotely close to the "real thing" but its close enough for me.
Slower cloth and tighter pockets on the seven footers would solve your not being able to let your stroke go. The new diamonds with the tighter pockets addressed one part but not the other. They still put fast cloth on them.
Banks
Banned
I don't think pool is going anywhere without the organization of the leagues. The leagues bring in players, which is good. People that partake in many games that they are fans of tend to do so on equipment that is not professional-grade. So it goes with pool. No need to denigrate the people or the equipment. Most baseball fans couldn't hit a homer in a college park, nor could they kick a field goal on an nfl field. That they're getting out there, enjoying the game and keeping it alive should be enough. There are some fans on here that wouldn't even be high rated apa players, but they love the game all the same. It's about making the game accessible and enjoyable, which will increase the player base enough to support something more.
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Again to the OP.
It seems from your posts that maybe you grew up privileged to have bigger tables to play on. That's great, a lot of us players did the same thing. I have spent more time then most playing on a 12' table, snooker, golf, nine ball, it was the best to work on stroke mechanics. I was privileged to have that opertunity. But my love of the game is what keeps me coming back no matter the size of the table. I spent five years with nothing to play on but a 7' table in a bar. My love of the game kept me going to that place playing, fighting to keep my stroke in order. Dealing with the drunks, fights, league operators, all the things you seem to dislike about bar room pool.
On that note do you really think that this will be the setting for the CSI event you so adamantly are putting down? Mark is a world class operator, all you would have to do is look into the Encyclapedia of Billiards to find the Billiard Palace in Anchorage Alaska. Then you could see a glimpse of the class this man has, from the room he operated for years. In my mind this is the vision he has for pool world wide, and not just one room. If Mark is putting on an event like this you can bet it will world class no matter the size of the table.
Maybe the best thing you could do for pool, would be to go pay your entery fee, have a "One, Two, and BBQ" and support the sport you seem so inclined to put down. At least that way you may become part of the solution instead of being part of the problem. Who knows maybe the few bucks you put into the thing will allow he powers that be to have nine foot tables next year. Maybe it will give one of the "Bar Bangers" the money to turn Pro. Who knows?
One thing you do fail to realize is that these events have to appeal to the masses, and if the masses are not comfortable on a bigger table yet, then some of them may not put up their hard earned money for a chance. Hell, you should be greatful they are being played on 7' tables. If your half the shooter you make yourself out to be, then you should have no problem taking home some of the cash. And there will be more of it thanks to the so called "bar bangers".
In a round about way I'm trying to tell you to put up, or shut up. Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. Maybe you could support this event by putting up advertising for it, go around to the local bars and put up flyers. Bring more of these player around so they will compete in this event. I am sure Mark would be happy to supply you with the flyers. Just that one act alone may bring money/competition to this event.
But you won't do that will you? You would rather sit back and enjoy the fruits of other people's labor while you complain in your privileged sort of way.
Aloha
It seems from your posts that maybe you grew up privileged to have bigger tables to play on. That's great, a lot of us players did the same thing. I have spent more time then most playing on a 12' table, snooker, golf, nine ball, it was the best to work on stroke mechanics. I was privileged to have that opertunity. But my love of the game is what keeps me coming back no matter the size of the table. I spent five years with nothing to play on but a 7' table in a bar. My love of the game kept me going to that place playing, fighting to keep my stroke in order. Dealing with the drunks, fights, league operators, all the things you seem to dislike about bar room pool.
On that note do you really think that this will be the setting for the CSI event you so adamantly are putting down? Mark is a world class operator, all you would have to do is look into the Encyclapedia of Billiards to find the Billiard Palace in Anchorage Alaska. Then you could see a glimpse of the class this man has, from the room he operated for years. In my mind this is the vision he has for pool world wide, and not just one room. If Mark is putting on an event like this you can bet it will world class no matter the size of the table.
Maybe the best thing you could do for pool, would be to go pay your entery fee, have a "One, Two, and BBQ" and support the sport you seem so inclined to put down. At least that way you may become part of the solution instead of being part of the problem. Who knows maybe the few bucks you put into the thing will allow he powers that be to have nine foot tables next year. Maybe it will give one of the "Bar Bangers" the money to turn Pro. Who knows?
One thing you do fail to realize is that these events have to appeal to the masses, and if the masses are not comfortable on a bigger table yet, then some of them may not put up their hard earned money for a chance. Hell, you should be greatful they are being played on 7' tables. If your half the shooter you make yourself out to be, then you should have no problem taking home some of the cash. And there will be more of it thanks to the so called "bar bangers".
In a round about way I'm trying to tell you to put up, or shut up. Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. Maybe you could support this event by putting up advertising for it, go around to the local bars and put up flyers. Bring more of these player around so they will compete in this event. I am sure Mark would be happy to supply you with the flyers. Just that one act alone may bring money/competition to this event.
But you won't do that will you? You would rather sit back and enjoy the fruits of other people's labor while you complain in your privileged sort of way.
Aloha
Undecided
I much prefer watching pool on a 9' table and my favorite game to watch is 10 Ball on a 10' Diamond. The majority of the pro players make pool look very easy on a 7' table. I won't bash them though, as I still miss way to often on a 7' table. The other thing is almost every 7' table in my hick town is in a bar and in horrible condition. It's still pool, as is snooker, 3 cushion, that Chinese 8 ball etc.
I much prefer watching pool on a 9' table and my favorite game to watch is 10 Ball on a 10' Diamond. The majority of the pro players make pool look very easy on a 7' table. I won't bash them though, as I still miss way to often on a 7' table. The other thing is almost every 7' table in my hick town is in a bar and in horrible condition. It's still pool, as is snooker, 3 cushion, that Chinese 8 ball etc.
:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:
I hope I am not taking my life & putting it into your hands by responding here but here goes.
I just gave Colonel 3 thumbs up but I also see your points. Some sports are conducive to being 'the same' for upper level professionals & amateurs playing on the same size field like tennis & basketball. However other modifications are made for other sports. Most amateurs play slow pitch soft ball with 4 outfielders instead of 3 & not fast pitch hard ball like the Pros. Most amateurs play either flag or touch football with less than 11 man teams & with no real blocking instead of full blown tackle football.
There are rather obvious reasons for those modifications.
The only real reason for the difference in pool is money. The smaller coin table was designed to be put into bars for the reasons already stated by others much as a jukebox & pinball games were put into bar rooms.
Pro Baseball players do not play softball. Pro Football players do not play flag football.
I learned on hall type tables & I've played a lot on coin tables. They are two separate things that have similarities between them but they are not the same thing. I think You know that.
Is the game on a coin table pool? Yes...but it is different than pool on a 9' table just as slow pitch softball is different than fast pitch hardball. The games are similar but played with different sized balls & at different levels of ability to hit the ball.
Each has its purpose & each satisfies different individuals for their purposes.
Should the upper level Professional Player be playing on a 7' coin type table as a means of defining & deciding championship caliber play? I don't think so. BUT... I understand that all competitors are playing on the same surface. It's just like Major League Baseball players deciding The World Series one year by playing slow or fast pitch Softball instead of real baseball.
IMHO: If all Professional competitions were played & decided on standardized 'official' size tables, it might encourage the lesser player to go into a hall to see what it is like to play on a 9' foot table.
Like you, I realize the reality of the situation of where we are. I would just hope that it could head back to a more 'formal' time with some standards like the Colonel was saying.
I hope you see where I agree with you.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Banks
Banned
As long as that is what the market supports, that is what they will play on. I agree with the idea of standardized equipment, which is one reason that I'm a big fan of diamond tables. Right now, you could have all pro events played on 9' tables, but the average player won't know or care. That's one of the problems to overcome and what getting better, more organized pool to the masses will hopefully begin to fix.
My posts intention wasn't to denigrate anything or anyone, it wasn't a judgement, merely an observation. If a see a blue car driving down the street & remark "there's a blue car", I'm not judging it, I'm observing it.
My post is what I observe & my impression & feelings about it. While pool has never been what it should be, I've been a part of it since I was a child & seen it be much more than it is now & don't believe that downsizing the playing surface is the answer to returning it to its former glory & those that try to sell it by saying "but it's a Diamond" doesn't make it any more palatable, it's still a Barbox. In regards to saying this brings in a base until it can be something more doesn't ring true to me either. Seldom in life when something is compromised & reduced does it ever return. Those that you sold the reduced version to won't want to accept the change to revert it. As pools popularity grows throughout the world, which is more now than ever, those players will dominate and the U.S. will then not be known as the place where the games champions come from as it almost always has been in the past, it will be regarded as the place where they play "mini pool". This is a travesty that will be the final heartbreak of many pool has given me in the course of my life.
It's kind of like Pizza. Pizza purchased from the big chains is...just ok. Yes it's still Pizza. Yes it satisfies and feeds the family but in the end we all know it's not the good stuff. Real pizza made by real artisans is well a work of culinary art. Once you've had it and can afford it you want nothing else. This to me is my parallel to BB. All the rest of the conversation about how there are more clusters and congestion on a BB is just fluff. I like Rotation and One Pocket with a 14.1 thrown in. None of which play well on small surface. Put up a bunch of Pros and get them to try and break and run 100 racks of 8 ball on a BB and a 10 footer (10 footer to just exaggerate the results a bit) and you can bet your mamma the percentages will show the BB is easier (assuming equal pocket size).
Yes if forced or broke I assume I would eat the "lesser pizza". People who know me understand I don't settle. I have walked by many a BB in my life with almost zero inclination to play. For those in small town USA who seem to have no choice (some places in Canada or becoming that way as well) I fell a little sorry for you.
Could you imagine this in a truck stop? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj5Egv0GYG4&feature=youtu.be&t=93
I'm ready to cry like this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Suu84khNGY
Nick
Yes if forced or broke I assume I would eat the "lesser pizza". People who know me understand I don't settle. I have walked by many a BB in my life with almost zero inclination to play. For those in small town USA who seem to have no choice (some places in Canada or becoming that way as well) I fell a little sorry for you.
Could you imagine this in a truck stop? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj5Egv0GYG4&feature=youtu.be&t=93
I'm ready to cry like this guy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Suu84khNGY
Nick
Why should people pay money to support something that they won't even watch for free? Pro pool is dead because no one cares about it.
Totally agree! Fact is, on a 7' table...the balls are the same size and the pockets are the same size. The difference there is less room between them, so clusters, rail shots, and close quarter shots are more prevalent. I can understand why some would avoid them.
For me...the nearest 9' is 45 minutes away. If it were not for a 7', I would not be playing!
OK, as I stated in my original post. I ADMIRE AND RESPECT Mark Griffin. He alone may be keeping pool alive (or at least on life support) in America. He is a gentleman and a scholar. My brother, who flew in from Pittsburgh, and I HAPPILY paid several hundred dollars each for VIP seats to watch his last two professional events in Las Vegas. To us it was worth that much money just to watch the Ko brothers and Efren on perhaps his final American tour. Thank you Mark it was much appreciated.
For the sake of this discussion all of that is entirely irrelevant. What separates a PGA Tour Pro from a normal golfer: He can hit his drives 300+ yards. Obviously size does matter. The same is true in pool. Pros should play on full sized tables. What lesser players play on is irrelevant.
Mark is doing what he apparently must do. That I completely understand. I just can't watch it.
For the sake of this discussion all of that is entirely irrelevant. What separates a PGA Tour Pro from a normal golfer: He can hit his drives 300+ yards. Obviously size does matter. The same is true in pool. Pros should play on full sized tables. What lesser players play on is irrelevant.
Mark is doing what he apparently must do. That I completely understand. I just can't watch it.
Who exactly is "forcing" the best players in the world to play on bar boxes? WTF are you talking about. Most pro tourneys are on 9 foot tables, with the exception of the BarBox Championships, which are, yep, played on bar box tables.
And, they don't even have to sign up, they don't have to attend, so even then, who is forcing anyone ?
So, yeah, non professional pool players get to play on smaller tables that hide some of their flaws, and makes the game a little bit more enjoyable. Wow, the horrors.
Well, guess what, my baseball team does NOT play on a field the size of professionals. My god, there would NEVER be a homerun, there would be plenty of triples, because anything over our heads the ball would roll for a mile, and it might take 2 cut off guys from the wall for a play at the plate.
So,yeah, we play on HS fields because that is what we have at our disposal, and it's fun, cause even some of the old guys can still jack one
If you don't have fun at the sport you love and play, there really is no reason to do it. For some, a 9 foot is no fun. I like both actually, have a 9 foot in basement and play in leagues with a 9 and a 7. I even liked the 12 foot snooker table, but as much as the game is interesting, it just is not enough fun to play because of the sheer size and my sudden transformation into a banger (not that there is anything wrong with that). I mean, do you think folks that play bumper pool should be executed, or just tortured a little
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