As more and more pool halls close, a bar may be the only place you will get to watch them! Even now, most pool halls are also "sports bars".
I don't consider pool on a bar table to be pool
- Thread starter dnschmidt
- Start date
As more and more pool halls close, a bar may be the only place you will get to watch them! Even now, most pool halls are also "sports bars".
Who exactly is "forcing" the best players in the world to play on bar boxes? WTF are you talking about. Most pro tourneys are on 9 foot tables, with the exception of the BarBox Championships, which are, yep, played on bar box tables.
And, they don't even have to sign up, they don't have to attend, so even then, who is forcing anyone ?
So, yeah, non professional pool players get to play on smaller tables that hide some of their flaws, and makes the game a little bit more enjoyable. Wow, the horrors.
Well, guess what, my baseball team does NOT play on a field the size of professionals. My god, there would NEVER be a homerun, there would be plenty of triples, because anything over our heads the ball would roll for a mile, and it might take 2 cut off guys from the wall for a play at the plate.
So,yeah, we play on HS fields because that is what we have at our disposal, and it's fun, cause even some of the old guys can still jack oneIf you don't have fun at the sport you love and play, there really is no reason to do it. For some, a 9 foot is no fun.
I like both actually, have a 9 foot in basement and play in leagues with a 9 and a 7. I even liked the 12 foot snooker table, but as much as the game is interesting, it just is not enough fun to play because of the sheer size and my sudden transformation into a banger (not that there is anything wrong with that). I mean, do you think folks that play bumper pool should be executed, or just tortured a little
I nominate you POSTER OF THE THREAD!!! Sent you a greenie too!
Pool is easier on a BB period! You can't compare an elite field to a whatever field.
everybody claiming clusters make it harder lol. they're also alot easier to break up on a BB. Position play on a BB is a joke at best.
CJ won $88,500 that weekend in 1996. But that was from four events, not one -- a $1,000 appearance fee for a pro-am, $20,000 for a men's singles event, $7,500 for a mixed doubles event, and $60,000 for beating the winner of the women's singles event.
Here are some of the top prizes in pool events (excluding the IPT):
$163,172 -- Efren Reyes, Tokyo 9-Ball, 2001
$100,000 -- Ronnie Alcano, World 9-Ball, 2006
$100,000 -- Daryl Peach, World 9-Ball, 2007
$100,000 -- Darren Appleton, World 10-Ball, 2008
$96,000 (approx.) -- Darren Appleton, China Pool World Championship, 2015
CJ won in the USA. Where were these other tournaments played? The point is, billiards is dying here...not there! How often will you be traveling to Qatar to watch a pool tournament?
Now put tighter pockets on the 7' tables and pro cut. Of course pros are going to run out on a 7' compared to a 9' with same size pockets. The 7' needs to be tightened up. Johnnyt
My 10 footer has ~ 4 1/8" pockets and it definitely makes a difference.
Sorry, I have to correct one of your statements. The rest of the world does NOT have predominant large tables. You can find them here and there, but I've seen around 5 of them in all the bars/small halls I've ever visited, everything else were 7ft, with a couple of 8ft and 6ft tables. The classic large pool halls? You're still more likely to find those in the US. I've never even seen one with my own eyes. I could be wrong, but it seems the bar box has taken over the globe, not just 'Murica.
I can't tell if it's just bad marketing making pool look unimportant, or the very nature of the game, which the average person finds boring, but it sure as hell can't be changed overnight. Pool business should focus on drawing money primarily from a large base of players, from novices and bangers all the way to the elite. It kept the game alive and even prospering for now (although in a different form), so why give up on it?
Let's put our combined effort in increasing the size of that player base. It certainly won't do any harm to pool. I'm just one young man but together with my friends I already introduced a handful of other young people to the game, and several of them kept playing. Every pool player can and should reach out to his friends and acquaintances and try to make at least a few of them like the game. Just imagine what many of you with far more experience and actual influence in the pool community could do. Organizing small leagues and tournaments, marketing the game on a local or regional level, teaching kids...
Everything starts from a regular person in an average community. Think small to accomplish big. To grow a forest one has to plant and take care of every individual tree.
I'm not saying it's either harder or easier, but the numbers are going against your blunt statement. Statistics don't lie.
I have no idea where you're from & I haven't been everywhere but the Philippines, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Greece, Italy are some of the countries I've visited where I haven't seen a small table. There's a variety of sizes I've seen in England but didn't stay long, the food was insufferable. The reality is that as the game becomes more international which is more so now than ever, players from around the globe are starting to dominate the game & they're not playing on bar boxes. I've traveled the U.S. extensively for over 25 years & while the bar box has always been around there were many more halls in the past then there are now with large tracks. You still find predominantly large tracks in certain regions but the rest is boxes with a large track here & there. I find it alarming.
Did you mean you haven't seen a bar box in a pool hall or that there aren't any bar boxes at all? In our pool halls here in Croatia we have large tables too, but everywhere else you'll find almost exclusively 7 footers. I'm not counting pool clubs as they're closed to the public. Taking everything into account, the big tables are outnumbered by the smaller ones at least 30 to 1.
Bar table isn't pool thread
Interesting read!
To the OP - I'm currently recovering from surgery and in phoenix for another 3-5 weeks - or longer. I would love to sit and chat. We can meet at Stingers? Please call me 702-835-2000. That's my cell. CSI does 2 7' events in AZ now - hopefully you can support them. Fort McDoweel in early September and Tuscon coming up in June. I'll be spreading posters next week or two in Phoenix.
To the others - there is a lot if knee jerk statements going on. CSI didn't just wake up and go with 7' table 'pro' events. There are several issues. The cost of bringing in 9' tables - when we already know over 90% of pool in US is on 7' tables.
Figure an extra $20,000 to do 9' pro events. Yet few watch - and fewer pay. We are primarily an amateur entity. I tried a 9' amateur event - it cost me $80,000 by the time I was finished.
The viewership on our video channel - the top 10 mist viewed 'might' have one 9' event. The 7' numbers dwarf the 9' numbers. Public opinion has spoken. I cannot force people to alter their choice.
So - the decision was made for us by the public!
I encourage people to contact me.
Also, there is a huge problem currently facing pool that we now have a solution for. This could have a revolutionary affect on pool. More on this to be announced over next few months. I have hinted over several months but it's getting closer. And most don't realize the problem 'exists' or has the impact it really does. This will be the opportunity for many to show their support for pool - and not being so self-serving. Let the games begin!!
Mark Griffin
Markg@playcsipool.com
Interesting read!
To the OP - I'm currently recovering from surgery and in phoenix for another 3-5 weeks - or longer. I would love to sit and chat. We can meet at Stingers? Please call me 702-835-2000. That's my cell. CSI does 2 7' events in AZ now - hopefully you can support them. Fort McDoweel in early September and Tuscon coming up in June. I'll be spreading posters next week or two in Phoenix.
To the others - there is a lot if knee jerk statements going on. CSI didn't just wake up and go with 7' table 'pro' events. There are several issues. The cost of bringing in 9' tables - when we already know over 90% of pool in US is on 7' tables.
Figure an extra $20,000 to do 9' pro events. Yet few watch - and fewer pay. We are primarily an amateur entity. I tried a 9' amateur event - it cost me $80,000 by the time I was finished.
The viewership on our video channel - the top 10 mist viewed 'might' have one 9' event. The 7' numbers dwarf the 9' numbers. Public opinion has spoken. I cannot force people to alter their choice.
So - the decision was made for us by the public!
I encourage people to contact me.
Also, there is a huge problem currently facing pool that we now have a solution for. This could have a revolutionary affect on pool. More on this to be announced over next few months. I have hinted over several months but it's getting closer. And most don't realize the problem 'exists' or has the impact it really does. This will be the opportunity for many to show their support for pool - and not being so self-serving. Let the games begin!!
Mark Griffin
Markg@playcsipool.com
Personally I don't care for the small tables but I do feel its good for the amateurs and the pros. Big numbers can be had on the little tables because amateurs feel they actually have a chance and they actually do have a better shot to win a set but the cream will rise to the top with a pro winning the event. Better added money and big fields could produce solid payouts for the pros and if an amateur did win an event it would be a good thing honestly.
Bar table isn't pool thread
Interesting read!
To the OP - I'm currently recovering from surgery and in phoenix for another 3-5 weeks - or longer. I would love to sit and chat. We can meet at Stingers? Please call me 702-835-2000. That's my cell. CSI does 2 7' events in AZ now - hopefully you can support them. Fort McDoweel in early September and Tuscon coming up in June. I'll be spreading posters next week or two in Phoenix.
To the others - there is a lot if knee jerk statements going on. CSI didn't just wake up and go with 7' table 'pro' events. There are several issues. The cost of bringing in 9' tables - when we already know over 90% of pool in US is on 7' tables.
Figure an extra $20,000 to do 9' pro events. Yet few watch - and fewer pay. We are primarily an amateur entity. I tried a 9' amateur event - it cost me $80,000 by the time I was finished.
The viewership on our video channel - the top 10 mist viewed 'might' have one 9' event. The 7' numbers dwarf the 9' numbers. Public opinion has spoken. I cannot force people to alter their choice.
So - the decision was made for us by the public!
I encourage people to contact me.
Also, there is a huge problem currently facing pool that we now have a solution for. This could have a revolutionary affect on pool. More on this to be announced over next few months. I have hinted over several months but it's getting closer. And most don't realize the problem 'exists' or has the impact it really does. This will be the opportunity for many to show their support for pool - and not being so self-serving. Let the games begin!!
Mark Griffin
Markg@playcsipool.com
Interesting read!
To the OP - I'm currently recovering from surgery and in phoenix for another 3-5 weeks - or longer. I would love to sit and chat. We can meet at Stingers? Please call me 702-835-2000. That's my cell. CSI does 2 7' events in AZ now - hopefully you can support them. Fort McDoweel in early September and Tuscon coming up in June. I'll be spreading posters next week or two in Phoenix.
To the others - there is a lot if knee jerk statements going on. CSI didn't just wake up and go with 7' table 'pro' events. There are several issues. The cost of bringing in 9' tables - when we already know over 90% of pool in US is on 7' tables.
Figure an extra $20,000 to do 9' pro events. Yet few watch - and fewer pay. We are primarily an amateur entity. I tried a 9' amateur event - it cost me $80,000 by the time I was finished.
The viewership on our video channel - the top 10 mist viewed 'might' have one 9' event. The 7' numbers dwarf the 9' numbers. Public opinion has spoken. I cannot force people to alter their choice.
So - the decision was made for us by the public!
I encourage people to contact me.
Also, there is a huge problem currently facing pool that we now have a solution for. This could have a revolutionary affect on pool. More on this to be announced over next few months. I have hinted over several months but it's getting closer. And most don't realize the problem 'exists' or has the impact it really does. This will be the opportunity for many to show their support for pool - and not being so self-serving. Let the games begin!!
Mark Griffin
Markg@playcsipool.com
Aloha Mark
Good to see you posting again. Looking forward to seeing what you got cooking for the future. My best to you in a speedy recovery.
Aloha
Good to see you posting again. Looking forward to seeing what you got cooking for the future. My best to you in a speedy recovery.
Aloha
been discussed many times before, but as much as I even love pool, it does not even break the top 25 for toughest sports at the elite level, not even close.
League players are keeping pool alive. It has NO affect on what the pro's do or don't do. Softball did NOT hurt Major League baseball, so stop blaming folks who love the sport as the ones hurting it. OK, so lets STOP all the leagues, yeah, there's a great idea
YOu can pretty much shut the doors of pool table manufacturers, cue makers, etc. etc. Nobody is downsizing anything. Golf courses are NOT all the same size, baseball fields are NOT all the same size and what are they, BILLION dollar businesses that folks actually make MILLIONS of dollars to play it..... I recall a recent gent signing a $325M contract to play baseball for the next 13 years. That's GUARANTEED money unless he dies or retires on his own.
Space is at a premium, no everyone has the room for 9 foots in lots of places, thus, bars and pool halls will determine what they want in their room, and what keeps the doors open. If someone believes differently, put your $100K in play, and open a room that you like. It's quite simple, if everyone else is doing it wrong, prove it by doing it differently.
been discussed many times before, but as much as I even love pool, it does not even break the top 25 for toughest sports at the elite level, not even close.
League players are keeping pool alive. It has NO affect on what the pro's do or don't do. Softball did NOT hurt Major League baseball, so stop blaming folks who love the sport as the ones hurting it. OK, so lets STOP all the leagues, yeah, there's a great idea
Nobody is downsizing anything. Golf courses are NOT all the same size, baseball fields are NOT all the same size and what are they, BILLION dollar businesses that folks actually make MILLIONS of dollars to play it..... I recall a recent gent signing a $325M contract to play baseball for the next 13 years. That's GUARANTEED money unless he dies or retires on his own.
Space is at a premium, no everyone has the room for 9 foots in lots of places, thus, bars and pool halls will determine what they want in their room, and what keeps the doors open. If someone believes differently, put your $100K in play, and open a room that you like. It's quite simple, if everyone else is doing it wrong, prove it by doing it differently.
RJ..Good to see you finally make a semi-sensible post ! (
) ..I agree with most of your observations, but why do you always have to bring other sports into the equation..What does golf, or baseball have to do pool, or how much room a bar owner has to devote to pool tables ?..
..If I were to invest 100K, in a venture like a pool room or a bar, I would surely want to maximize my income, but I doubt that the number of pool tables I could cram in, would be my primary concern!..It would probably be my choice of barmaids, my pricing, or what I served as 'well drinks' !
You do also realize, that the phasing out of 9' foot tables, would be the death knell for professional pool, as we know it!...Popular gambling games, like one pocket, or 9/10 ball, would become extinct !..No professional player, (or his backer) would want to invest huge entry fees, in a virtual 'crap shoot', which is what it would be on 7' tables !...I for one, would hate to see pro pool (which we all enjoy) go down the tubes over how many tables could be crammed into X amount of square feet !..If you stop and think about it, I don't think you would either !
Last edited:
RJ..Good to see you finally make a semi-sensible post ! (
..It would probably be my choice of barmaids, my pricing, or what I served as 'well drinks' !
You do also realize, that the phasing out of 9' foot tables, would be the death knell for professional pool, as we know it!...Popular gambling games, like one pocket, or 9/10 ball, would become extinct !..No professional player, (or his backer) would want to invest huge entry fees, in a virtual 'crap shoot', which is what it would be on 7' tables !...I for one, would hate to see pro pool (which we all enjoy) go down the tubes over how many tables could be crammed into X amount of square feet !..If you stop and think about it, I don't think you would either !
It's kinda simple really. The guy I responded too said pool was in the dumps because of the different and inconsistent playing table for pool. I merely pointed out it's not the same for other sports, see how that works.
Nobody said to stop playing on 9 foot tables, the pro's can do whatever they want, and pool room owners can do whatever they want. But certainly, the folks that choose to use 7 foot tables because they can fit 6 instead of only 4, is a business decision.
Pro pool is down the tubes because nobody wants to watch it, plain and simple. TV rights is the answer, but if you can't bring in the ratings, you can't stay.
You take league players out of the question, and the pro's are done. If there were no league players, who would Diamond sell their tables too? Most non league folks that don't play league just buy your furniture type table like an Olhausen, they are not going to spend $5K on a Diamond bar box.
and if there are no leagues, why would a former league player feel the need to keep practicing ?
If no leagues, then the cue maker go out of business.
And it gets worst from there.
That's 400K players keeping pool alive, spending money, playing leagues, keepng the doors of the bar open, and entering tourneys, even paying at DCC. I've played there twice.
See how much nicer it is to have a conversation without throwing out insults to get your point across. It's not so hard
Best to you and I wish you a quick recovery!
I'm sure tournament sponsors such as Predator, Joss, Viking, and Valley may sell a few products to Professional Pool Players (who play exclusively on 9' tables); but the overwhelming majority of their customers are people who play on 7' tables. They have also responded to the public by sponsoring tournaments held on 7' tables!
When we quit supporting these events, as some have suggested here, then it will be time to say goodbye to pool altogether!
RJ..Good to see you finally make a semi-sensible post ! (
It would probably be my choice of barmaids, my pricing, or what I served as 'well drinks' !.
You do also realize, that the phasing out of 9' foot tables, would be the death knell for professional pool, as we know it!...Popular gambling games, like one pocket, or 9/10 ball, would become extinct !..No professional player, (or his backer) would want to invest huge entry fees, in a virtual 'crap shoot', which is what it would be on 7' tables !...I for one, would hate to see pro pool (which we all enjoy) go down the tubes over how many tables could be crammed into X amount of square feet !..If you stop and think about it, I don't think you would either !
In almost all sports, non-Americans are becoming a dominate force. In women's golf alone, 8 out of 10 top players are non-American. They play on the same playing fields as Americans so why the difference? In their countries the public gives them support because the sport is promoted in a positive way. How many young girls do you see on the golf course where you play? Pool in other countries is NOT portrayed as a bunch of seedy characters gambling and drinking in a dark smoke-filled room. Thank you Hustler and COM. They spurred an interest amongst people who were already interested but they did little to improve the image of pool in a positive way. Viola, NO public support!
The bar I play at now with my friends, has 2-7' tables. Both are FREE to play on ALL the time. They are well kept and the cue balls are red dots (plus I always carry my own). The bar cues suck, but since almost everyone who plays there are league players...they bring their own cues. Gambling is NOT allowed but they do have local tournaments there.
For everyone who wants to play on a specific size table...BUY one! All this crap about the necessity of playing on a 9'...yet when our VFW was donated a 9' Brunswick Medalist in perfect condition (a $3500 table), the most they could get for it was $350. Previously, they sold a used 7' Valley for $1000. I have a solid cherry 8' Gandy Grenoble which I had tried to sell. The most I was offered for this $5280 table was $500. It now sits in the garage collecting dust! Most everyone plays on a 7' table so everyone wants a 7' table!
Last edited:
Interesting topic. I for one enjoy watching and playing on the 9 footers. It's a different game than the bar tables. Longer shots with pressure are much more difficult on the big track. With that said, I can see the economic issues also involved. Where is the return of investment hosting a pro tournament? If it was a money making venture, then you would see a lot of pro tournaments on the big track around the country.
The pro's will play where they can. And such as in poker, the best will still rise to the top. Playing on the bar box may even have another benefit that was brought up by another poster that more "dead money" might play because they feel that they have a better chance.
If the alternative is bar table pro events vs. no pro events, I'll take the former. I do understand the view that pro pool should be played on 9 if not 10 foot tables, but sometimes you have to adapt to survive.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=390616
The pro's will play where they can. And such as in poker, the best will still rise to the top. Playing on the bar box may even have another benefit that was brought up by another poster that more "dead money" might play because they feel that they have a better chance.
If the alternative is bar table pro events vs. no pro events, I'll take the former. I do understand the view that pro pool should be played on 9 if not 10 foot tables, but sometimes you have to adapt to survive.
No professional player, (or his backer) would want to invest huge entry fees, in a virtual 'crap shoot', which is what it would be on 7' tables !...I for one, would hate to see pro pool (which we all enjoy) go down the tubes over how many tables could be crammed into X amount of square feet !..If you stop and think about it, I don't think you would either !
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=390616