I don't consider pool on a bar table to be pool

I agree wit Jay. 8 ball much harder on bar table. That being said the contact points are the same even if table is 30 feet long. Difference is stroke on big tables.
 
ENGLISH! said:
I hope I am not taking my life & putting it into your hands by responding here but here goes.

I just gave Colonel 3 thumbs up but I also see your points. Some sports are conducive to being 'the same' for upper level professionals & amateurs playing on the same size field like tennis & basketball. However other modifications are made for other sports. Most amateurs play slow pitch soft ball with 4 outfielders instead of 3 & not fast pitch hard ball like the Pros. Most amateurs play either flag or touch football with less than 11 man teams & with no real blocking instead of full blown tackle football.

There are rather obvious reasons for those modifications.

The only real reason for the difference in pool is money. The smaller coin table was designed to be put into bars for the reasons already stated by others much as a jukebox & pinball games were put into bar rooms.

Pro Baseball players do not play softball. Pro Football players do not play flag football.

I learned on hall type tables & I've played a lot on coin tables. They are two separate things that have similarities between them but they are not the same thing. I think You know that.

Is the game on a coin table pool? Yes...but it is different than pool on a 9' table just as slow pitch softball is different than fast pitch hardball. The games are similar but played with different sized balls & at different levels of ability to hit the ball.

Each has its purpose & each satisfies different individuals for their purposes.

Should the upper level Professional Player be playing on a 7' coin type table as a means of defining & deciding championship caliber play? I don't think so. BUT... I understand that all competitors are playing on the same surface. It's just like Major League Baseball players deciding The World Series one year by playing slow or fast pitch Softball instead of real baseball.

IMHO: If all Professional competitions were played & decided on standardized 'official' size tables, it might encourage the lesser player to go into a hall to see what it is like to play on a 9' foot table.

Like you, I realize the reality of the situation of where we are. I would just hope that it could head back to a more 'formal' time with some standards like the Colonel was saying.

I hope you see where I agree with you.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Click to expand...

back in the 80's i played softball...both slow and fast pitch.

i played on 3 teams. 2 teams were just for local leagues ...both slow and fast pitch. the other slow pitch team was a strictly tournament team. we had 2 major league players on our team that played in the off season. 1 played for the pittsburgh pirates "denis davis "and the other played for the montreal expos " mario...cant remember his last name...he was from cuba.

we once faced a team in a tournament that had jose canseco on it .btw.. our team won.

i dont know about now a days but back then it was a pretty serious sport to some people. we had a sponsor that paid all our expenses including uniforms ...bats ..gloves ..cleats etc. and we were even given a per diem for eating expenses while traveling. our sponsor usually rented 2 vans for all the players and equipment and clothse. one particular time 2 players could not get off work early to make the trip with the vans and our sponsor flew them up the following day to ohio from fla. where we lived. some people even got paid to play.
 
medallio said:
I agree wit Jay. 8 ball much harder on bar table. ...
Click to expand...

Jay didn't say that, at least not in this thread. What he said was: "Eight Ball on the cramped quarters of a bar table remains a great game that requires good thinking, good safety play and excellent cue ball control. ..."
 
So what do I have to do to a real pool player? I've bought real cues real cases but league is all I play. Can't do anymore since no pool hall is within an hour from me. Tired of hearing this and that about bar box league players we put in work time and money also just for what someone saying "oh you're just a league player" cmon only way it will grow is everyone caring about the game 7' 8' 9' 10' all of it
 
For the discussion about whether 8-Ball is tougher on a 7-foot table or a 9-foot table, let's look at some numbers.

The only data I have for 7-footers is from the U.S. Bar Table Men's 8-Ball Championship played about 6 weeks ago. For comparison, I'll use data from two events played last year on 9-footers -- the Accu-Stats "Make-It-Happen" 8-Ball Invitational played in November and the CSI Invitational 8-Ball Championship played in July. The numbers are for only the streamed matches that I watched, not for all of the matches in the events. All three events used Diamond tables with pro-cut pockets, and all three events used a racking template (Magic Rack for USBTC and CSI, Accu-Rack SOLO for Accu-Stats).

Caveat -- One difference to take into account in trying to draw conclusions from these numbers is in the quality of the fields. The Accu-Stats (6-player field) and CSI (16-player field) events involved all top-notch, world-class players. The streamed matches for the USBTC involved 25 different players, and a decent proportion of those were not of that same high standing.

Made at least one ball on the break and did not foul:
• USBTC -- 68% (98 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 73% (85 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 71% (154 of 218)

Breaker won the game:
• USBTC -- 58% (83 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 61% (71 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 64% (139 of 218)

Break-and-run games:
• USBTC -- 44% (64 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 50% (59 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 54% (118 of 218)

Break-and-run games on successful breaks:
• USBTC -- 65% (64 of 98)
• A-S MIH -- 69% (59 of 85)
• CSI Inv. -- 77% (118 of 154)

Run-outs by the player at the table after the break:
• USBTC -- 62% (89 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 68% (80 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 74% (162 of 218)

Games ending in one inning (B&R's + run-outs by the non-breaker on his first visit):
• USBTC -- 79% (114 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 85% (99 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 88% (192 of 218)
 
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If people like watching pool on a 7' BB because they think it is harder because of the clusters...etc, then why not play it on a 6 footer, or better yet a 4 footer. Sure would be real tough then...someone else stated that SVB likes a 7' table, so that should tell ya something..Yeah it tells me that SVB likes a 7' table...some do, some don't.

Why don't we all play bumper pool? Smaller table, lots of obstacles, banks have to be precise....pros started going where the money was(if you can call it money), and most times they were showing up at $35.00 entry fee events. Can't blame them...wasn't a lot else going on unless you wanted to play in an occasional big money event and hope you won otherwise you might not make enough to pay for your room, and maybe a meal or two.
 
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To the OP, yet again.

What is irrelevant here is your reference to golf, your point of view on this subject, and your elitist negative attitude towards a game I love.

You do realize your talking about two different sports, just wanted to make sure because you seem to think pool is not pool when it's played on a smaller table. Just wondering what sport you think it is by the way. Perhaps we should call it marbles!

Have fun not going or watching the CSI event. I on the other hand plan on doing both, and learning something in the process, and supporting this sport I hold dear. I'll be sure to let Mark know you meant no disrespect toward the hard work they have put in to have this event. Hopefully one day you will understand that there is more you can do for this sport so that it will grow. Instead of complaining about something you have no courage/motivation to change.

Maybe your time would be better spent on the golf course, or even a golf forum for that matter, I'm sure you could stir the pot with comments about the 15" cups there putting in the greens to help bring people to that sport.

Aloha
 
I'm quite certain that for all the hue and cry about bar box events, ignoring them isn't gonna help get more big table events.......

Not supporting pool events will make them all go away. If you're truly concerned about the pro game
 
AtLarge said:
For the discussion about whether 8-Ball is tougher on a 7-foot table or a 9-foot table, let's look at some numbers.

The only data I have for 7-footers is from the U.S. Bar Table Men's 8-Ball Championship played about 6 weeks ago. For comparison, I'll use data from two events played last year on 9-footers -- the Accu-Stats "Make-It-Happen" 8-Ball Invitational played in November and the CSI Invitational 8-Ball Championship played in July. The numbers are for only the streamed matches that I watched, not for all of the matches in the events. All three events used Diamond tables with pro-cut pockets, and all three events used a racking template (Magic Rack for USBTC and CSI, Accu-Rack SOLO for Accu-Stats).

Caveat -- One difference to take into account in trying to draw conclusions from these numbers is in the quality of the fields. The Accu-Stats (6-player field) and CSI (16-player field) events involved all top-notch, world-class players. The streamed matches for the USBTC involved 25 different players, and a decent proportion of those were not of that same high standing.

Made at least one ball on the break and did not foul:
• USBTC -- 68% (98 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 73% (85 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 71% (154 of 218)

Breaker won the game:
• USBTC -- 58% (83 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 61% (71 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 64% (139 of 218)

Break-and-run games:
• USBTC -- 44% (64 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 50% (59 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 54% (118 of 218)

Break-and-run games on successful breaks:
• USBTC -- 65% (64 of 98)
• A-S MIH -- 69% (59 of 85)
• CSI Inv. -- 77% (118 of 154)

Run-outs by the player at the table after the break:
• USBTC -- 62% (89 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 68% (80 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 74% (162 of 218)

Games ending in one inning (B&R's + run-outs by the non-breaker on his first visit):
• USBTC -- 79% (114 of 144)
• A-S MIH -- 85% (99 of 117)
• CSI Inv. -- 88% (192 of 218)
Click to expand...

Maybe people complain about bar boxes because they cannot play as well on them! For me it has always been easier to go from a 7' to a 9', then a 9' to a 7'.
The greatest bar box player EVER, beat all of the greatest "ranked" players! It was pretty simple...Vernon Elliott made more money playing as a hustler than anyone ever made as a professional! He was indeed happy to take THEIR winnings in sets of up to $100,000. What pro ever won THAT much in a single purse? I believe CJ Wiley holds the record amount with $85,000. He played Burnie too, and I think he is the only pro who broke even playing Burnie.
BTW, CJ promotes a aiming method called TOI (available on DVD). If I am not mistaken, Burnie, who used TOI, showed CJ how well the method works on banks!
Beware...you never know what lurks at a bar box!
 
Judging by many of the responses, it is easy to understand why billiards is in decline in the USA! It won't take long at all for it to disappear altogether with the negative attitudes of so many so called "enthusiasts"!
 
dnschmidt said:
Mark Griffin is an icon of the game and we all appreciate his efforts but as much as I love to watch world class pool I will not be going to the pro CSI events at the Rio, although it's an easy drive for me since I live in Phoenix, because I can't stand pro level players playing on a seven foot table. To me this is a joke. The ability to shoot at distance is what separates the men from the boys. Make that 12 foot shot on the Bigfoot pal, let me see what you've got.

It's either break and run out or break and be snookered. Why is Efren not the dominate force he used to be, because it can't make the long ball anymore on a consistent basis. That's what pool is all about.

How do others feel about this? My view is 9 foot is fine, 10 foot even better.
Click to expand...

Um...did they change something? In the past the July event at the Rio involves amateurs playing on 7 foot tables and pros playing on 9 foot tables. Unless they changed this for 2015, your concerns are not realistic.

KMRUNOUT
 
Yes, CSI did, the 2015 pro ten ball and 8-ball events are being played on bar boxes. Why can't these people understand that I am only commenting on Pro Level Pool from the standpoint of a spectator. I don't want to watch Tiger playing mini-golf and I don't want to watch Jango and Efren on a seven foot table. That's all I'm saying.
 
Personally I think nine ball is the reason why pool is declining! The demise of pool will simply be caused by the characters that play it. The fact that it is a gambler's game, even in the best of pool halls, have kept reputable companies from marketing it. The success of any sport in America is solely based on how it is marketed. I'm from Chicago's South-side and played billiards at Beverly Bowl and IBC. Here is an article written by Jim Parker, owner of IBC. I personally think it predicts how pool will finally come to an end, professionally, in America. Just as 3-cushion is now gone in America. http://www.bonniesdiningandbanquets.com/content/newsletters/PoorMarketing.html
 
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