I just was given a response that amazed me.

[Steve Lipsky]

Just to give another contrarian point of view, it's not just losing the 4 tables worth of free time. There's a strong likelihood that as soon as this thing starts, most of the tables already going will stop to watch. Taking total guesses at how many tables he might have, and the general interest of his regulars, he might lose 12 tables worth of time for 4 hours or more. That might be $500 in time (another guess). You'd have to sell $500 more in drinks and food than you normally would during that time just to break even.

Not saying I agree with him - if the business has been good to him, he should give back by offering something like this. But if business is bad, it's tough to ask a guy to lose even more money. As others have said, there might be creative ways he could recoup some of it by offering specials, etc, but it's not for you to decide how much extra work in marketing this guy should put in.

I'm also not convinced at all that these types of exhibitions do anything to increase business in the coming months or even days. The regulars will be there anyway, and regulars from other rooms just go back to their other rooms.

It's a nice thing to do, and shame on the owner if he's making a nice living and wouldn't give back to his customers by doing this. But if that's not the case, I would've done the same thing (though much more politely than he did!).

- Steve

 

[Rick S.]

Well Rick I would think that you would agree that most of the better players do not consume the amount of alcohol per person, that shall we say the recreational players consume.

Or am I way off on that statement?

Better players?

The 'better' players usually aren't league players. They are $$$ players. And yes, some of the best players drink. Quite heavily at times too. Especially under league conditions, with no $$$ on the table, a lot of them drink.

Hell, even with money on the line.

Have you EVER seen Ronnie A. play without a Budweiser?

Yes, I think your off.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I would say that is a myth....Please provide any factual statistics on this.

My neighbor use to OWN a Room/Bar that is now The Curve in Peoria AZ, and he owned another Room/Bar near 51st. and Dunlap, and last a Room in Flagstaff.

He has said to me many times that the better Rated Players 9's and up etc., did not consume Alcohol like his 4-8 rated players in his businesses

Think the voice of a Bar/Room Owners who know his clientele, and how much profit there was or was not in his Bar/Room speaks from experience.

I also mention this thread to him today, and his take on the situation had he been asked for FREE use of his room, if in business today would be YES if he Share in the Money, and NO FREE TABLE TIME, or Room use age.

Also I will point out the Metro sports Bar that is one of the large Pool Sports Bars on our side of the Valley seem to cater to the 8 and under rated players, and i think that is because these player tend to spend more on High Profit Alcohol Drinks during tournament & league play.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

This whole scenario with a pool room owner not being even the slightest bit interested in having two top professionals visit his place, might be an indicator as to the level of respect that the general public gives to professional pool today.

Think you could be on the right track Roger.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Better players?

The 'better' players usually aren't league players. They are $$$ players. And yes, some of the best players drink. Quite heavily at times too. Especially under league conditions, with no $$$ on the table, a lot of them drink.

Hell, even with money on the line.

Have you EVER seen Ronnie A. play without a Budweiser?

Yes, I think your off.

You could be right. As my eyes are limited to what I have seen in the Westside of the Valley of the Sun.





















BTW me personally if I drink (1) Beer I might as well put my Cue back in its Case, as that one Beer totally destroys my depth perception, and motor skills necessary to pock a ball.

 

[BRKNRUN]

My neighbor use to OWN a Room/Bar that is now The Curve in Peoria AZ, and he owned another Room/Bar near 51st. and Dunlap, and last a Room in Flagstaff.

He has said to me many times that the better Rated Players 9's and up etc., did not consume Alcohol like his 4-8 rated players in his businesses

Think the voice of a Bar/Room Owners who know his clientele, and how much profit there was or was not in his Bar/Room speaks from experience.

I also mention this thread to him today, and his take on the situation had he been asked for FREE use of his room, if in business today would be YES if he Share in the Money, and NO FREE TABLE TIME, or Room use age.

Also I will point out the Metro sports Bar that is one of the large Pool Sports Bars on our side of the Valley seem to cater to the 8 and under rated players, and i think that is because these player tend to spend more on High Profit Alcohol Drinks during tournament & league play.

That perception above is based on the total volume of beer consumed by players of those ratings.......I would not argue that the volume of beer consumed would be more in the lower rating levels since there are MANY times more 4-8 rated players than there are 9-10 rated players.......(especially in this town that uses a rating system that does NOTHING to make a player want to improve his/her skill set in the game)...It is only obvious that most times 5000 people will be able to out drink 500...

However....your "origonal" comment on this was based on "per person"......based on "per person"....I think that the percentage would be just as high if not higher "per person" in the 9-10 rating...

There are just as many 4-8 rated players that show up and touch nothing more than coke and play in tournaments.

I can think of a few 10 rated players right off the top of my head that buy beer two at a time....

If the owners are basing their decisions off of the fact that the customer base is much larger in the 4-8 rated players...that is fine......That is probably a correct assesment...

But spewing out that 9-10 don't ever drink beer is pure BS speculation based on a "false" perception that comes from fuzzy math.....similar to the false perception that assumes that ALL pool players are nothing but hustlers liers and cheaters.

 

[PETARD]

Mark; Tell Us Who This Person Is So We Can Show Him Some Lost Revenue.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Mark; Tell Us Who This Person Is So We Can Show Him Some Lost Revenue.

I believe Mark alread said [n]NO[/b] to that. Mark intention was not OUTING THAT ROOM OWNER in the first place.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

That perception above is based on the total volume of beer consumed by players of those ratings.......I would not argue that the volume of beer consumed would be more in the lower rating levels since there are MANY times more 4-8 rated players than there are 9-10 rated players.......(especially in this town that uses a rating system that does NOTHING to make a player want to improve his/her skill set in the game)...It is only obvious that most times 5000 people will be able to out drink 500...

Well we half agree on something. But you seem to have this fixation with people who have no desire to improve their skill in the game of Pool. As you stated, ?.(especially in this town that uses a rating system that does NOTHING to make a player want to improve his/her skill set in the game)?

Personally if some people have no desire to improve it is no big deal to me, as I understand many people are just playing Pool be it League, or Tournaments just to have fun and nothing more.

Also I do not think the Pool Industry could survive on HARD CORE WANT TO IMPROVE at any Cost Players. Please let those who seek not to improve, and just have fun. HAVE FUN.

However....your "origonal" comment on this was based on "per person"......based on "per person"....I think that the percentage would be just as high if not higher "per person" in the 9-10 rating...

There are just as many 4-8 rated players that show up and touch nothing more than coke and play in tournaments.

I can think of a few 10 rated players right off the top of my head that buy beer two at a time....

Well when Mike H was having his Oldhausen All Arounds, I went out and watched a FEW, and I would say from what I saw few of the better player were doing Beer after beer. Unlike what i see in the Tournaments for 8?s and under in the Valley.

If the owners are basing their decisions off of the fact that the customer base is much larger in the 4-8 rated players...that is fine......That is probably a correct assesment...

Some owners do and like I said my friend had 3 Rooms/Bars in AZ, and the people who paid the rent & overhead by purchasing Liquor were not the 9?s and 10?s in his Bars/Rooms, it was the 8?s and under.

But spewing out that 9-10 don't ever drink beer is pure BS speculation based on a "false" perception that comes from fuzzy math.....similar to the false perception that assumes that ALL pool players are nothing but hustlers liers and cheaters.

I never said 9?s and 10?s DON?T DRINK, I said they do not drink like the 8?s and under do.

BTW you said above, ?false perception that assumes that ALL pool players are nothing but hustlers liers and cheaters ? where did this come into play.












Now I will ask you a question? Have you personally OWNED a POOL ROOM, or POOL ORIENTATED BAR that Catered Only to the TOP PLAYER in AZ, and how long did it stay in business?

 

[Jim Kuykendall]

Earl and Johnny could walk in to 80% of the rooms in America unannounced and no one would know who they are. People who play and are in touch with the game don't seem to undersand that the vast majority of people in pool rooms couldn't tell the difference between Earl Strickland and Elmer Fudd.

 

[ShootingArts]

I think you are wrong . . .

Earl and Johnny could walk in to 80% of the rooms in America unannounced and no one would know who they are. People who play and are in touch with the game don't seem to undersand that the vast majority of people in pool rooms couldn't tell the difference between Earl Strickland and Elmer Fudd.

I might not recognize Earl but I'd recognize Elmer in a heartbeat! Even wascally wabbits know what Elmer looks like.

Hu

 

[vagabond]

been good to him, he should give back by offering something

I'm also not convinced at all that these types of exhibitions do anything to increase business in the coming months or even days.

- Steve

at last some body is revealing the truth

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Earl and Johnny could walk in to 80% of the rooms in America unannounced and no one would know who they are. People who play and are in touch with the game don't seem to undersand that the vast majority of people in pool rooms couldn't tell the difference between Earl Strickland and Elmer Fudd.

Very true statement.






Now I wonder what beside the FREE TABLE TIME it was Mark would have requested if the Owner said YES to the FREE TABLE TIME.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

That perception above is based on the total volume of beer consumed by players of those ratings.......I would not argue that the volume of beer consumed would be more in the lower rating levels since there are MANY times more 4-8 rated players than there are 9-10 rated players.......(especially in this town that uses a rating system that does NOTHING to make a player want to improve his/her skill set in the game)...It is only obvious that most times 5000 people will be able to out drink 500...

However....your "origonal" comment on this was based on "per person"......based on "per person"....I think that the percentage would be just as high if not higher "per person" in the 9-10 rating...

There are just as many 4-8 rated players that show up and touch nothing more than coke and play in tournaments.

I can think of a few 10 rated players right off the top of my head that buy beer two at a time....

If the owners are basing their decisions off of the fact that the customer base is much larger in the 4-8 rated players...that is fine......That is probably a correct assesment...

But spewing out that 9-10 don't ever drink beer is pure BS speculation based on a "false" perception that comes from fuzzy math.....similar to the false perception that assumes that ALL pool players are nothing but hustlers liers and cheaters.

Also I will point to when they had the LAST Desert Dustoff, more of the Galley were drinking Alcohol, than the Player s in the Dust Off. Yes some of the better player do drink, but I would think more avoid Booze as it will effect their game. IMHO.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Also I will point to when they had the LAST Desert Dustoff, more of the Galley were drinking Alcohol, than the Player s in the Dust Off. Yes some of the better player do drink, but I would think more avoid Booze as it will effect their game. IMHO.

Are you missing the boat that much????

Wouldn't it be farily obvious that most of the players playing in a event that is promoted as a local tour aka: semi pro event that has dress code standards etc. would probably refrain from drinking a substance that has known side effects during that event??????

Frankly...I am done with you Coco Boy...You don't even choose to pay attention to the detail in "your own" posts...How can I expect you to pay attention to detail in others posts.

Example... first (post #115) you say "per person" ...then your later replys are based on entire group consumption.

Then you choose to ignore details in my post and spew replies based on content that has been "mis read"

Please refer to your post #129 that is in reply to my post #126.

Please re-read "carefully" the post I made... I will help you.

I stated the "rating system" does nothing to make players want to improve....I never said anything about actual players not wanting to improve... Yes there are players that don't want to improve...(like yourself)...but there are indeed players that do want to improve even though the system only penalizes players that do want to improve by reducing the amount of tournaments they can play in....But the "RATING SYSTEM" does nothing to promote better play.....(Hopefully you did not mis it this time)

regarding your other "clip and mis-assesment" you chose to remove the words "similar to".......Why would you remove words that have a significant bearing on the comment I was making????

Add those words back in an "carefully" re-read the post...Hopefully you will then understand my point....(somehow I doubt it)

Oh...and BTW..regarding your direct question at the very tail end of you reply in post #129......No, I never have... and frankly I never would...IF I chose to run a pool room or bar...I would cater to BOTH.......Somehow I get the impression that because your "neighbor freind" used to own a bar, it makes you think you are some kind of athourity????


Spew on brother......but I am done wasting my time with you...

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I stated the "rating system" does nothing to make players want to improve....I never said anything about actual players not wanting to improve... Yes there are players that don't want to improve...(like yourself)...but there are indeed players that do want to improve even though the system only penalizes players that do want to improve by reducing the amount of tournaments they can play in....But the "RATING SYSTEM" does nothing to promote better play.....(Hopefully you did not mis it this time)

You stated, and this puzzle me. ".(especially in this town that uses a rating system that does NOTHING to make a player want to improve his/her skill set in the game)".


Now I will state again what I said: Personally if some people have no desire to improve it is no big deal to me, as I understand many people are just playing Pool be it League, or Tournaments just to have fun and nothing more.

Also I do not think the Pool Industry could survive on HARD CORE WANT TO IMPROVE at any Cost Players. Please let those who seek not to improve, and just have fun. HAVE FUN.


Think you might have misread what I wrote. Hell I was in Circus Circus one night talk to two guy from New Mexico playing slots who came to the BCA with their TEAM. They knew they could win nothing at the BCA, but came for the FUN. Not ever one is a Gamble, or High Entry Fee Tournament player. Some people are just having FUN.

So what is wrong with that picture.