I Keep Scooping The Cue Ball..............

i dont believe my fundamentals are horribly broken. my buddy "Dave" that is a heckuva player (BCA 8-Ball Champ) told me my fundamentals appear to be fine.

Approach each shot as follows:
1) view the table, weigh your options, choose the best for you.
2) visualize the shot in your mind
3) preshot routine - step into the shot, aligning as you go
4) smooth delivery, follow through, stay down.
5) pray

that pretty much sums up my approach.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i dont believe my fundamentals are horribly broken. my buddy "Dave" that is a heckuva player (BCA 8-Ball Champ) told me my fundamentals appear to be fine.

Approach each shot as follows:
1) view the table, weigh your options, choose the best for you.
2) visualize the shot in your mind
3) preshot routine - step into the shot, aligning as you go
4) smooth delivery, follow through, stay down.
5) pray

that pretty much sums up my approach.

DCP
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There's a heckuva difference between a BCA 8-Ball Champion and the eyes of a good BCA Instructor like some of those who post here....Bob, Scott etc.....randyg
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i dont believe my fundamentals are horribly broken. my buddy "Dave" that is a heckuva player (BCA 8-Ball Champ) told me my fundamentals appear to be fine.
...
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OK. If your fundamentals are fine, you will hit the cue ball where you address it. A technique for seeing where you actually hit the ball has already been described. Have you tried it to see if you hit the cue ball where you address it?

Please let us know how the test comes out.
 
jsp said:
Scooping the CB is basically a result of a miscue by applying low english. To prevent a miscue, you need as much static friction between the cue tip and CB as possible.

There are two ways to increase the amount friction between tip and CB. First, you can increase the friction properties of the cue tip. This can be done by adding more chalk. If the chalk does not stick well to the tip, sanding to make the surface more rough may help.

The second way to increase the amount of friction is to increase the amount of surface area that is in contact between the CB and cue tip. This may mean rounding off your cue tip, or keeping the cue as level as possible. This may also mean just not hitting the CB as low.
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There's another variable involved in the force of friction produced between cue-tip and cue-ball, and I suspect it's the culprit: pressure. The more firmly the tip is pressed against the cue-ball DURING contact, the less likely it will be to slip, which produces a miscue and in this case a jump.

The problem is the contact is very brief, and "pressing" the tip against the ball isn't really easy to conceptualize, since what you're really doing is hitting it. But smooth acceleration through the ball makes all the difference.

The instant the tip hits the ball, the ball starts moving away from the tip, decreasing pressure. If the tip is slowing down at this point, as with a "poke" stroke, it can't keep up with the cue-ball, and contact becomes brief and low-pressure, leaving little opportunity for the friction to prevent a miscue. If you consider a tip that's speeding up, though, the tip is doing a better job of keeping up with the CB as it starts to move, meaning prolonged contact, increased pressure, and more friction to get that cue-ball spinning.

If you're placing the cuetip on the cueball correctly, acceleration is everything when it comes to spinning the ball without miscues. Achieving this acceleration is the reason the follow-through, the looseness of the arm muscles, and most of the other techniques mentioned in this thread matter.

-Andrew
 
deep said:
I've got a Everest on my cue and this never happens. Its a lot more to do with your stroke than the tip. I'm guessing you might need to lower your backhand a bit and try to keep the cue more level.
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Bingo...lower that back hand!
 
Bob Jewett said:
It depends on what he's trying. I suspect DCP's fundamentals are horribly broken. If he practices that way, his fundamentals will remain horribly broken.

I'm reminded of a student I had who played for draw by addressing the cue ball at it's center. He got the draw by elevating his stick on the final stroke. He was totally, completely and absolutely oblivious to the fact that he was raising his elbow. Should that student try to change? I think that aiming one place and hitting somewhere else is a recipe for mediocrity, Francisco Bustamante obviously excepted. But this guy was no Bustamante. If he could have controlled his draw like that, maybe he shouldn't worry about floppy elbow, but one of his main problems was totally inconsistent draw.
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I agree but there are the few who aim so "strangely" but execute so beautifully. I have a friend who is a phenomenal player...and on every shot you would think he is aiming to draw the ball. He is self taught and as naturally talented as they come...but definitely couldn't show you anything by watching him. You'd never figure anything out..LOL.
 
Bob Jewett:

When I was going through this phase last year, a friend had me check where I was striking the ball (thank you, F8it).

We found that snapping my wrist caused me to hit the ball nearly a half inch below the address point.
 
Matt_24 said:
I agree but there are the few who aim so "strangely" but execute so beautifully. I have a friend who is a phenomenal player...and on every shot you would think he is aiming to draw the ball. He is self taught and as naturally talented as they come...but definitely couldn't show you anything by watching him. You'd never figure anything out..LOL.
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And then there was my friend (on whose table I learned to play) who could line up for full follow, and intend to follow, and then draw the cue ball the length of the table.
 
Andrew Manning said:
There's another variable involved in the force of friction produced between cue-tip and cue-ball, and I suspect it's the culprit: pressure. The more firmly the tip is pressed against the cue-ball DURING contact, the less likely it will be to slip, which produces a miscue and in this case a jump.

The problem is the contact is very brief, and "pressing" the tip against the ball isn't really easy to conceptualize, since what you're really doing is hitting it. But smooth acceleration through the ball makes all the difference.

The instant the tip hits the ball, the ball starts moving away from the tip, decreasing pressure. If the tip is slowing down at this point, as with a "poke" stroke, it can't keep up with the cue-ball, and contact becomes brief and low-pressure, leaving little opportunity for the friction to prevent a miscue. If you consider a tip that's speeding up, though, the tip is doing a better job of keeping up with the CB as it starts to move, meaning prolonged contact, increased pressure, and more friction to get that cue-ball spinning.

If you're placing the cuetip on the cueball correctly, acceleration is everything when it comes to spinning the ball without miscues. Achieving this acceleration is the reason the follow-through, the looseness of the arm muscles, and most of the other techniques mentioned in this thread matter.

-Andrew
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Excellent points! Good post.
 
Andrew Manning said:
... If you're placing the cuetip on the cueball correctly, acceleration is everything when it comes to spinning the ball without miscues. Achieving this acceleration is the reason the follow-through, the looseness of the arm muscles, and most of the other techniques mentioned in this thread matter....
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While I agree that it is death to stroke to try to stop the stick early, all the evidence is that the best way to hit the ball is at peak velocity of the cue stick. By definition, this is when there is no acceleration and the hand is neither pushing the stick forward nor pulling it back. The contact of tip-to-ball is so brief and the tip-to-ball force is so high that the state of your arm at the instant of contact -- whether pushing or pulling -- has almost no effect on the shot.

When the above is pointed out, the objection is nearly always that "I get much better stroke when I'm accelerating at impact." I think reality is that the objector gets much better stroke when he is not starting to stop the stick a couple of inches before it gets to the cue ball.

For instructors, the problem is how to get across the idea of "Don't stop early." Some will erroneously advise to accelarate through contact, and if this gets the student to accelerate up to contact, what's the harm in a little lie?

I've tried to be accelerating significantly at impact, and it makes for a very uncomfortable stroke.
 
Rod said:
This is the most common problem that I've seen from teaching. Although I'm not teaching any longer I believe it still is the most common fault. Once that grip tightens up it sets off a chain reaction which include moving up your upper arm and shoulder. It's easy to see.
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I had a hard time seeing it myself as I never video taped myself shooting or had a friend knowledgeable enough to spot it, but now I know what to look for there are 3 dead give-aways I have noticed if you are doing this wrist-snap thing (beyond hopping the cue ball!):

1) You will leave a noticeable mark on the cloth just in front of the cue ball. (a very solid chalk mark next to a "divot" mark in the cloth itself)

2) Depending on your tip type there will be a noticeable mark on the very edge of the tip from the mis-cue and all the chalk will be worn off this spot. (Again I use hard tips, perhaps on soft tips this is not so noticeable.)

3) Depending on your tip type you will leave a noticeable brown mark on the cue ball from the edge of the tip. (I use hard tips, perhaps soft tips don't do this as much. Also some makes/types of cue ball seem to mark up easier than others. E.G. The Aramith Pro Cup "Measles" ball seems to mark much easier than an Aramith Red Circle.)
 
Dont really have this problem anymore. However, it does rear its ugly head on occassion. And it seems like those occassions are when i want to draw the CB back a small amount, say like six inches to a foot, and i ease up on the stroke.

DCP
 
Seven and a half years later?

*edit* Sorry, didn't want my post to seem rude. I was just surprised at the time gap. If it still happens I would run the snot out of drills until I got it out of my system.
 
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Jaden said:
When you apply draw are you lowering your bridge? When I use BHE I always lower or raise my bridge hand for follow and draw shots so that the cue is as close to parallel to the playing surface as possible. If you don't there is a greater liklihood of miscuing.
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I agree.

Also your tip could be glazing over a bit. prik it up & ALWAYS chalk up well before shooting this type of shot. I chalk before every shot as a habit. But I have seen many shooting along fine, hitting soft 'center' hit shots & then go to draw a shot & you guess it, miscue.

Also, what type stroke are you using? If it is a pendulum stroke, perhaps when you raise the butt, if that is what you are doing, you may be going into a sawing motion instead of going straight into & throught contact. Just a guess.

Good Luck fixing it.
 
I used to have similar problem when I want to have a massive draw.

Then I was afraid of getting myself hooked or running out of position.

Then the more I think of it the more I get nervous, then before I knew it the cue ball is flying in the air.

I think sometimes it has something to do with the mental game.
 
try not to put a downward angle on your cue when stroking the cue ball. you gotta make sure that it's almost parallel to the table. when hitting the cue ball, try to imagine poking a hole through it.
 
I don't know what's more amazing, DCP still posts on AZbilliards or that he took the time and effort to dig up a 7 year old post to tell us he's fixed that problem.

Meanwhile, we've had a financial melt down, GWB is no longer president and most people in the world know who Kim Kardasian is but have no idea why.
 
Between that and travis trotter popping up, it's like being stuck in a time warp. Everyone's excited about the IPT, efren's winning everything at derby city, "Shane who?"... good times.
 
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