I Think it's Time...

Charity

The concept was ment to be used as a charity or fund raising event.
Unless organizations are involved I am not a fan.
Nick :)
 
Lisa...

There have indeed been a number of threads about this so far. One of the things that's important to remember (and was discussed at length), is that raffles like these are for the most part ILLEGAL. Lotteries are a form of gambling. While most anyone who's ever picked up a pool cue in their lifetime very likely has the propensity to gamble...it doesn't mean it's condoned. I have no doubt that neither the site moderators, owner, or the administrators...have any desire whatsoever to single out the raffles on here. In away...that would be admitting that you're both aware of them, AND promoting them to continue. While they've said nothing one way or the other...they've sorta turned a blind eye and just let them continue. I think everybody involved in these raffles should be well aware of the caveats these raffles present.

That being said...I personally have nothing against raffles. I DO think they should have their own section. I think it's outstanding that sellers have a means to move a high $ cue in this market. I also think that given the state of the economy, and the general sentiment that every has fewer $$$'s to play around with...that it's nice that people have the chance to own a Sugartree or Southwest for $100 or less. What a wet dream THAT is. I'm not a big fan however of the guy who buys a $50 ticket on a $1200 cue, however, then wins the cue and puts it right back up for sale for $700. I think sales like that are a poor indicator of what similar cues are worth....but people will always site them as examples nonetheless.

All I know is that with all the cues up for raffle, all the threads supporting raffles, and all the threads denouncing them...it NEEDS its own section. PLEASE...Mr. Wilson...for the love of this forum...if you can delete threads surrounding Mr. Eddie Wheat...you can get this done too. I have faith. Get it done and restore some order 'round here.
 
zcat27 said:
Great idea Lisa. We definitely need a separate section and I think Berny's idea of the three sections is the way to go. Maybe just add one more for Cases and Accessories.
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Yes you are right pal, i just forget one section for the rest of all ITEMS.

May like "Pool Accessories" ( for Cases, Tables, Chalk, JP's ....)


Berny
 
Actually...

I think it went too far but I would like to see a separation of production and custom cues (cases could be included with the custom cues) as well as a separate thread for cue accessories and machinery.

Sorry Bernie...didnt read all the threads before I posted...I agree totally...I hate sifting through gloves, Schons, Meuccis and penny inlaid JPs to see what I really want to see.

LETS DO IT, GET IT DONE!!!!
 
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ridewiththewind said:
...that a completely new section exclusively for these cue raffles is established.

As a long time AZ member, I have got to say, that I am just about tired of even coming into the the Wanted/For Sale section anymore because of all of the raffles going on....for which the entire concept was flat out stolen from another site to begin with.

I am the first to admit, that the occasional raffle can be fun...but this has gotten ridiculously out of hand, and is, IMHO, seriously impacting those who wish to sell or trade cues the 'old fashioned' way...a straight up sale, with a price listed, and pics posted.

I am not even going to get into the fact that there are some 'raffles' where the final tally of all monies to spots sold far exceed the cue's true potential market value. Also...sure makes it much easier for the rip-off artists to get away with something. Much harder to prosecute for multiple small dollar amounts, as opposed to nailing someone with one big amount.

I would NEVER enter into a raffle with someone that I do not know or trust....and let's face it, with all the bad deals in the past 6 months here...there are very few that I would trust! Also...too many of these raffles are quite vague as to their terms. But it's y'all's hard earned dollars...caveat emptor!


I just happen to think that all these raffles and auctions (we're an auction site now?) is just terribly unfair to those who are really trying to just sell a cue. Those ads are getting woefully lost and bumped to the far pages entirely too quickly...because of all the responses to the raffle threads...and that is not really fair to those people who can ill afford to spend all day continually bumping their FS threads back to the front page just to keep up with all the raffle threads.

Mike/Dave...can we please move these raffles to their own section so that others here have half a chance at getting their true FS and/or Wanted ads the equal exposure they deserve?

Lisa
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Persdonally, I don't see what the point of all of this is. Yeah. Times are tough for practically everyone on here as we slowly but surely enter into a recession. That being said, I think these raffles are a great idea.

Why? Because the buyer now has a way to get his/her asking price. And depending on the cost of each spot in the raffle, the buyer has the opportunity to own a Sugartree or a Gina or whatever for a fraction of the price. Its still a Wanted/For Sale section and things that are being raffled off are still 'Wanted' or 'For Sale'. people buying in WANT the cue. People selling the spots are SELLING a chance to win the cue for a fraction of the price. Everyone wins. ...everyone except the people who hate seeing raffles. Those people can just keep scrolling past. Really?!?! What's the problem here?

You say you have little or no disposable income these days. Then why come into the Wanted/For Sale section to begin with?!? You say you spend little time on AZ these days anyway. So why does it matter whether there are raffles here or not?!
 
pharaoh68 said:
Persdonally, I don't see what the point of all of this is. Yeah. Times are tough for practically everyone on here as we slowly but surely enter into a recession. That being said, I think these raffles are a great idea.

Why? Because the buyer now has a way to get his/her asking price. And depending on the cost of each spot in the raffle, the buyer has the opportunity to own a Sugartree or a Gina or whatever for a fraction of the price. Its still a Wanted/For Sale section and things that are being raffled off are still 'Wanted' or 'For Sale'. people buying in WANT the cue. People selling the spots are SELLING a chance to win the cue for a fraction of the price. Everyone wins. ...everyone except the people who hate seeing raffles. Those people can just keep scrolling past. Really?!?! What's the problem here?

You say you have little or no disposable income these days. Then why come into the Wanted/For Sale section to begin with?!? You say you spend little time on AZ these days anyway. So why does it matter whether there are raffles here or not?!
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Agreed. I don't see the problem with raffles. It's still a method of selling a cue, and so it belongs here. If other sellers have a highly desired product at a good price, they will move too despite all the raffles and anti-raffle threads. In the past week or so I've seen three Sugartrees each sell in under 2 hours; the last one sold in 9 minutes this morning!!

Also, raffles don't distort the market price as much as people claim they do. A cue is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, and if raffles can raise the price, good for them.
 
I personally don't have a problem with people trying other methods to move product. Times are bad and sales are slow. I just wish I had more disposble income to capitalize on the great deals that are out there.

I am not interested in any raffles and I just pass over those threads. I don't understand why it has become such a big issue.....:confused:

Russ....
 
I agree that a new raffle sub-section needs to be created. Does anyone know if a request was made to management.
 
tsw_521 said:
Agreed. I don't see the problem with raffles. It's still a method of selling a cue, and so it belongs here. If other sellers have a highly desired product at a good price, they will move too despite all the raffles and anti-raffle threads. In the past week or so I've seen three Sugartrees each sell in under 2 hours; the last one sold in 9 minutes this morning!!

Also, raffles don't distort the market price as much as people claim they do. A cue is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, and if raffles can raise the price, good for them.
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Raffles generally dont raise price too much.but then have to bear paypal charges plus shipping and insurance for the cue.
paypal can itself be more than 4% and shipping around 50 to 70 usd
 
Roadkill said:
I agree that a new raffle sub-section needs to be created. Does anyone know if a request was made to management.
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have you NOT been reading this thread?!?! It was done in the first post.
 
A cue raffle section would be nice. Just because it would be easier to go there and see what is being raffled off. There not a hassle IMO on the main wanted for sale section. I think in these times it's a great way to sell a cue. They should just start an non complicated auction section for us with real time bidding. That does take some work though. Anyway, at the end of the day the whinning is what I do not like. Contact Wilson Pm style and others to request a Raffle section. Do a poll?? But the *****ing is not the way to go. Raffles have went smooth and I"m sure even if somebody actually made money in this market doing a raffle (God Forbid) the winner was still very happy and stole the cue. :cool:
 
I think it's time...

..I start a thread about a seperate section for raffling participants for starting threads about raffles put into raffling "sub"categories, 1 of which will be for actual raffles, 1 will be for raffle haters, and 1 for starting new threads about how people may be on the fence about raffles. Please note though that only category 3, subsection E, will allow for discussion of how it has already been threaded more than 10 times why there will not be a seperate section for raffles.
 
o2bacs said:
..I start a thread about a seperate section for raffling participants for starting threads about raffles put into raffling "sub"categories, 1 of which will be for actual raffles, 1 will be for raffle haters, and 1 for starting new threads about how people may be on the fence about raffles. Please note though that only category 3, subsection E, will allow for discussion of how it has already been threaded more than 10 times why there will not be a seperate section for raffles.
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They probably can not legally do it come to think of it...
 
I want to thank all of you who've responded to this thread about the "For Sale" section being all about cues for sale and the many ways of selling them. Not one of you mentioned the need to create a separate section for the sale of pool tables, I guess they have NOTHING to do with the sale of cues! So, why don't all of you who chip in with the advice of creating categories for the sale of cues...sugest a separate section for the sale of pool tables....as I have NO interest in the sale of cues what-so-ever....but get a little PO'd when I have to sort through all the bs threads about the sale of cues....just to find a thread about the sale of a pool table.

Just a thought!!!!

Glen
 
IMO. I think there is a place for raffles. It does give the average joe a chance to own a high dollar cue without paying the high dollar price tag. It would benifit all raffles to have their own section. Less bumping and easier to keep track of. Imo. Cues being raffled are not really for sale. Just my $.13
 
Raffles have been here for two weeks. That is not enough time for anyone to say how they might change the W/F-S section. It is enough time, however, for those who don't like them for any other reason, to mount a campaign in the name of some disturbance thought up out of whole cloth. I think it is clear the powers that control AZ are content to let them run their course instead of having a knee jerk reaction.
 
bumping makes it fun.

would u like a site on which the post dont move for hours and hours .This is what makes it exciting IMO:)

The more forum moves fast is more interesting for everyone

where else in the world can u have a chance to own a gina for 77.50 and sw for 75
 
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Prohibit raffles? Create a Raffle Forum?

They really don't bother me at all. I think the raffle craze is an indication of the depressed cue prices. Don't you think the frequency of raffles will soon run its course? All raffle ticket buyers are disappointed except one!;)
 
Well, are cue raffles illegal or aren't they? If they aren't, a separate section seems like a good idea. Might as well promote them, and there's already enough to warrant it. If they are, a separate section will never happen and sooner or later there will be a crackdown. My suspicion is that they are not allowed.
 
Please remember that simplicity is required for any forum to be busy and successful. If you sub-divide forums too much you find that many people never bother to drill down into every level and the number of people actually looking at posts can drop a lot. For example look at the number of times people post something NPR in the main forum because they just can't stand the idea of it getting lost in a slow sub-forum. (Of course there is a special circle in eHell reserved for these people.)

I wouldn't want the forum divided between production and custom (even if we could agree how to define those) as I love being able to see all the high-end custom cues going past in this forum, even though I'll rarely buy anything at that level. It keeps me coming here just to see what's happening.

My suggestion would be to keep it simple with three sub forums:

1) Items For Sale or Trade (Includes cues, tables etc.)
2) Items being Raffled and Charity sales
3) Items Wanted
 
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