I think people go way too far worrying about equipment

[hdgis1]

I think your point about the table is correct. However, for the majority of us the table conditions are beyond our control. What we can control are the cues etc.

Chris

Threads like this never cease to amaze me. All of you talk about cues, chalk, tips, break cues etc.....and ALL of you over look the most important part of this game, the tables you play on. Most of you wouldn't know a decent table if it bit you in the ass, but you know all ABOUT cues, tips, chalk and everything else when it comes to GOOD equipment. Yet you still play on the crap pool tables I've seen every where in this country, in bars, pool rooms, and any where else you want to mention. Do NOTHING to raise the bar when it comes to the standards of pool tables, then cry about how pool is on the decline....BUT spend money on GOOD equipment...so you can go play on crap pool tables...WOW!

Not ONE of you have even mentioned a single pool table in your LIST of equipment, other than PLAY the conditions, such as weather, humidity and such. How about tables with dead rails, loose cloth, wrong cushions, low/high cushions.

You guys are so lost when it comes to "Good Equipment" it's a joke Keep supporting locations that have junk to play on, maybe that's why your game will never improve. Play on Diamond tables and love them, then go back and stick quarters in the tables that play like junk, instead of telling the table owners to get better tables, and you'll be back, with your good playing equipment!

Glen

 

[Tramp Steamer]

This post is not meant to insult, put down or degrade anyone.

but i am amazed at how much people obsess about pool equipment and the like. They try a new stick every week, obsess over having the right chalk and whether its been soaked in milk long enough for them to be able to run out, how much the butt cap on a stick effects deflection and aiming systems and all kinds of other garbage people sit in the pool room and worry about and by the time they actually hit a ball theyre so demoralized by their obsession that they cant make a ball.

Now im not saying people shouldnt care about their equipment but we all know theres a lot of players who just take it way to far. I know guys who play great who if they dont get to use the right cueball or play on a brunswick instead of a diamond literally fall to their knees screaming because they cant make a ball. Its sickening. Pool might be the leading sport of talking and thinking about equipment and useless systems instead of actually playing.

Look at it this way. Equipment (cues, tips, tables, etc.) is the other half of the game we all care so much about.
Just like in Drag racing where the guys might sit around the pits talking about carburetors, gear ratios, and the like, then speak little about what they are actually going to do on the track.
And by-the-way. Pool is a game, not a sport. Watching girls at the poolroom is a sport.

 

[Doug]

Threads like this never cease to amaze me. All of you talk about cues, chalk, tips, break cues etc.....and ALL of you over look the most important part of this game, the tables you play on. Most of you wouldn't know a decent table if it bit you in the ass, but you know all ABOUT cues, tips, chalk and everything else when it comes to GOOD equipment. Yet you still play on the crap pool tables I've seen every where in this country, in bars, pool rooms, and any where else you want to mention. Do NOTHING to raise the bar when it comes to the standards of pool tables, then cry about how pool is on the decline....BUT spend money on GOOD equipment...so you can go play on crap pool tables...WOW!

Not ONE of you have even mentioned a single pool table in your LIST of equipment, other than PLAY the conditions, such as weather, humidity and such. How about tables with dead rails, loose cloth, wrong cushions, low/high cushions.

You guys are so lost when it comes to "Good Equipment" it's a joke Keep supporting locations that have junk to play on, maybe that's why your game will never improve. Play on Diamond tables and love them, then go back and stick quarters in the tables that play like junk, instead of telling the table owners to get better tables, and you'll be back, with your good playing equipment!

Glen

After meditating on Glens input and reading between the lines I was able to appreciate the value of the message. I have a 9' Diamond Pro in my basement and a 7' Diamond upstairs for practice and when I invite my buddies from the country club over to play. I also have suitable accoutrements ie, Black Boar, Richard Black, and Kersenbrock cues with which to play just in case one cue is out of stroke on a given day. My Mercedes and BMW is parked in the driveway and in case one of my friends drives a Chevy or Ford I have made arrangements with my neighbors to let them park in their driveways. I informed my friend who has owned the room for 40+ years where I play and has 20 Valley tables with Simonis cloth and Brunswick super speed cushions that I would not be back until he spent $60K or more for all Diamond equipment. Futhermore, I am tired of parking in a lot filled with pickups. And I would like it if he would keep those insensitive Valley table players in his room so the rest of us sensitive players could win tournaments played on upscale tables. Well, he still has his $60K, a room filled with players that don't have a clue, and I have one less friend and one less place to play. By the way, no one there was impressed with my cues, tables (even if they are the best) or my Mercedes. The best players still win on Diamond or Valley tables without discrimination. Wonder if Fillipinos boycott rooms that don't have upscale tables?

 

[brechbt]

Threads like this never cease to amaze me. All of you talk about cues, chalk, tips, break cues etc.....and ALL of you over look the most important part of this game, the tables you play on. Most of you wouldn't know a decent table if it bit you in the ass, but you know all ABOUT cues, tips, chalk and everything else when it comes to GOOD equipment. Yet you still play on the crap pool tables I've seen every where in this country, in bars, pool rooms, and any where else you want to mention. Do NOTHING to raise the bar when it comes to the standards of pool tables, then cry about how pool is on the decline....BUT spend money on GOOD equipment...so you can go play on crap pool tables...WOW!

Not ONE of you have even mentioned a single pool table in your LIST of equipment, other than PLAY the conditions, such as weather, humidity and such. How about tables with dead rails, loose cloth, wrong cushions, low/high cushions.

You guys are so lost when it comes to "Good Equipment" it's a joke Keep supporting locations that have junk to play on, maybe that's why your game will never improve. Play on Diamond tables and love them, then go back and stick quarters in the tables that play like junk, instead of telling the table owners to get better tables, and you'll be back, with your good playing equipment!

Glen

Glen, your point is perfectly valid in an ideal sense. However, the real world problems that I see make this approach unrealistic. I live in Lake County IL, north of Chicago. In the past few years I know of three good rooms that have closed, and a couple of others that are in trouble. These room owners don't have enough cash flow to keep the lights on, much less replace their tables with better ones. I don't think it's lack of business from serious players that hurts them, it's lack of business from casual and recreational types that's the problem. In the world of pool as I see it, we're unfortunately lucky to have anywhere at all to play these days, regardless of the type or condition of their tables.

Tim

 

[TheBook]

We have been programed from the earlist age by the mass market that to be great we need to copy the pros.

Eat Wheaties, breakfast of champions. Wear Jordans, be like Mike . Drive a Buick and get the girls, Tiger Woods. Play with a Cuetech., to be as good as Earl or Allison.

Why do players want to know what kind of cue Efrin uses? Because he is the best and he must know what gives the best result.

We are always complaining about sponsors not endorsing pool. What is the purpose of a sponsor. To get customers to believe that their product will make them better and improve the game.

Be glad that players are obsessed with it otherwise we will lose the few sponsors there are.

 

[MOJOE]

Diamond Bar tables are very inconsistent..

glen diamond tables play the best for sure.
but why do some of the diamond bar ables bounce so hard?
i cant play on them when they bounce so hard.

I agree Chris. I have played in too many tourneys on bar box diamonds that have the crazy rails.. Not good when the balls comes off the rail harder than it goes in or at least it seems. I have not seen this with the full sized diamond tables but it's very common with the bar tables.. I'd too like to know what gives here??

Enlighten us Glen.

 

[Fatboy]

Pool might be the leading sport of talking and thinking about equipment and useless systems instead of actually playing.

Good Post^^^^^

i think the golfers have the "equipment disesaes" the worst.

its kinda fun for some people to tinker with new ideas to make up for their inadiquaces of their game.

Speaking for myself, I like to play first and tinker second, but its a far second. I do like to know about differnt equipment only because I like to learn about things as they are, I have no intentions of changing anything,

 

[realkingcobra]

I'm not saying everyone should run out and buy Diamond tables and replace what they've already got, BUT what I AM saying is that room owners and bar owners should invest the money that they do spend to fix up their pool tables a little more wisely. Beating down the cost of a mechanic to the point that a good mechanic won't work on the tables, then settling for some one that just installs cloth is just plain stupid if you ask me. I'm not saying that room/bar owners should spend great amounts of money in fixing up their tables either, it's just that they need to get smarter at investing in a good mechanic. The way to do that is to take one table at a time, have the GOOD mechanic go through that table fully, fix the things that need to be fixed, then move on to the next table. Spread it out over time. If a room has 20 tables in it, fix up one a week or something, just don't do them all at one time. That way if the mechanic isn't as good as he says he is, then you've only got one table messed up, not 20:wink: And if you get a GOOD mechanic, then reward him with continued work, and STOP beating him down in price, the customers would love the better playing tables.

Let me tell you something about pool room going out of business. Pool rooms DON'T go out of business just because, they go out of business BECAUSE they're NOT doing enough to stay IN business. IF a room owner don't stay caught up with the times and the customers, IF they don't take care of their tables, then they're NOT doing what it takes to STAY in business, and that's the facts.

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

Malarkeys Pool & Brew is a GOOD example of what I'm talking about guys, I wouldn't go in there and play pool on the tables in the condition they're in, not even with NEW cloth. The problem Clark has, is that no matter how much money he's willing to lay out to fix his tables....he can't hire anyone that knows how to fix them...because room owners and bar owners have been so concerned about the COST of recovering pool tables, that they've completely over looked the long run investment of good equipment, and that comes with a price. If you're NOT willing to invest in quality workmanship, then don't cry when there's NO qualified mechanics in your area, because believe it or not....room owners, bar owners, and customers have to work together to help create this kind of mechanic by placing demands on the person doing the work to do better than the last mechanic! Bad house cues I can deal with, bad tables...I WON'T:grin:

 

[justadub]

Why do we keep searching for magic, that perfect cue? Being right handed I feel maybe I've been playing with a left handed cue all these years. But I keep searching go figure. :wink:

That's gotta be the problem I have!!!! Why didn't I think of it before? :rotflmao:

 

[BRKNRUN]

Plain and simple...the better you get at this game...the more important it is to have the (right) equipment for you game...I am not going to say good equipment since good to one person is crap to another....But I Guarantee that EVERY top player in the world has a very specific set up that they prefer to play with....Not that they can't play with anything...but they play better with thier specific preference.

As far as the table is concerned...it is always nice to play on top equipment...but I look at the table the same way I look at a Golf Course...Every golf course is different...I want to be able to play them all not matter how good..(or crappy) they are.....Though I prefer to play on the good courses...sometimes I am stuck playing on the goat ranch....usually that means my opponent is playing the same goat ranch though.

 

[realkingcobra]

Plain and simple...the better you get at this game...the more important it is to have the (right) equipment for you game...I am not going to say good equipment since good to one person is crap to another....But I Guarantee that EVERY top player in the world has a very specific set up that they prefer to play with....Not that they can't play with anything...but they play better with thier specific preference.

As far as the table is concerned...it is always nice to play on top equipment...but I look at the table the same way I look at a Golf Course...Every golf course is different...I want to be able to play them all not matter how good..(or crappy) they are.....Though I prefer to play on the good courses...sometimes I am stuck playing on the goat ranch....usually that means my opponent is playing the same goat ranch though.

I hear what you're saying, BUT....the cost of maintaining a pool table is a whole lot less than the cost to maintain a golf course, therefore I still see no reason for the general condition of the pool tables in this country from coast to coast being so sub....par!:grin:

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

I can't tell you how many times I've ran across someone that wanted me to work on their home pool table. I get there and see that they own thousands of dollars worth of cues I kid you not, but then stomped the shit out of a buffalo nickel to raise the money to buy the pool table they call me there to work on. I just look at it and tell them the same story, my charges are going to cost you more than your pool tables worth, so I'm going to have to pass on this job, but if you ever get a REAL pool table....feel free to call me back:wink: Now why is that? A person spares no expense to buy that WONDERFUL playing cue, break cue, jump cue, cases....etc...then spends good money to buy junk to play on at home???

Glen

 

[TATE]

This post is not meant to insult, put down or degrade anyone.

but i am amazed at how much people obsess about pool equipment and the like. They try a new stick every week, obsess over having the right chalk and whether its been soaked in milk long enough for them to be able to run out, how much the butt cap on a stick effects deflection and aiming systems and all kinds of other garbage people sit in the pool room and worry about and by the time they actually hit a ball theyre so demoralized by their obsession that they cant make a ball.

Now im not saying people shouldnt care about their equipment but we all know theres a lot of players who just take it way to far. I know guys who play great who if they dont get to use the right cueball or play on a brunswick instead of a diamond literally fall to their knees screaming because they cant make a ball. Its sickening. Pool might be the leading sport of talking and thinking about equipment and useless systems instead of actually playing.

Problem is, there is very little uniformity in pool equipment.

What we probably need is an official pocket size and cut angle, an official rebound speed for rails/cushions (and size, and profile) and an official weight and size for balls.

Don't blame the players for complaining about terribly maintained and modified or hacked equipment. It's frustrating to expect one result and get another because every cue ball is a different size and weight, to have balls roll off, hit dead center of pocket and bounce back at you, to have loose cushions, poorly shimmed pockets, etc.

Chris

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I hear what you're saying, BUT....the cost of maintaining a pool table is a whole lot less than the cost to maintain a golf course, therefore I still see no reason for the general condition of the pool tables in this country from coast to coast being so sub....par!:grin:

Glen

Golfers pay what per round of play to play on some of the finest golf courses, average pool players, and golfers are not alike, and they are different in many ways when it come to spending money.

We have people where I live that play both games, and they have a grand or more in their golf equipment, and play pool with a house cue, or wal-mart special with a screw on tip.

 

[pooltchr]

I hear what you're saying, BUT....the cost of maintaining a pool table is a whole lot less than the cost to maintain a golf course, therefore I still see no reason for the general condition of the pool tables in this country from coast to coast being so sub....par!:grin:

Glen

So with all that money they spend maintaining the courses, why can't they make every hole play the same? We seem to expect every pool table to play the same.

The way I look at it, every pool table has it's own personality. Good or bad, when you are playing a match, both players are dealing with the same conditions. The player who adjusts to that equipment the quickest will find they have an advantage.

Steve

 

[realkingcobra]

So with all that money they spend maintaining the courses, why can't they make every hole play the same? We seem to expect every pool table to play the same.

The way I look at it, every pool table has it's own personality. Good or bad, when you are playing a match, both players are dealing with the same conditions. The player who adjusts to that equipment the quickest will find they have an advantage.

Steve

I'm not saying all tables should play the same, or there'd only be one kind of table to play on in this world. What I am saying is that there needs to be no excuse for loose cloth, cushions rock hard, pockets falling off, cloth worn through at the spot to the point that the slate is showing through....things like that. Dave and Busters in Orange, CA. had some of the worst examples of pool tables I've ever seen. I was standing right next to a table that a mechanic was recovering watching him. The cushions were so rock hard that they were literally falling apart....and he was still installing the rail cloth. They have 12 9ft's and one 5 x 10 Snooker table, EVERY one of them had ROCK HARD cushions....I mean you couldn't hit the end rail and get the cue ball back to the head rail....ONCE! Now...how can you charge someone to play on that? I got a hold of the GM, had a converstation with him and told him what I thought, and that I'd send him a mechanic that WOULD take care of their pool tables....RIGHT! So, I put Donny, aka SDbilliards in charge of servicing the tables at Dave & Busters, as well as the other 3 in the area. Problem solved. I go to the Dallas, TX. area for some deliveries, stop in Dave & Busters there....and guess what I ran into, same thing I ran into at Dave & Busters in NY...ROCK HARD cushions....on ALL the tables.

There is NO excuse in that kind of condition for pool tables, they should be PAYING the customers to play on the tables....not charging them!!!

So no, ALL pool tables don't have to play the same, don't have to have the same pocket size or anything of the sort. But they should at least play like a damn pool table, that's all I'm saying, so that you have somewhere decent to play pool with all your pool cues and private chalk:grin:

Glen

 

[accustatsfan]

So with all that money they spend maintaining the courses, why can't they make every hole play the same? We seem to expect every pool table to play the same.

The way I look at it, every pool table has it's own personality. Good or bad, when you are playing a match, both players are dealing with the same conditions. The player who adjusts to that equipment the quickest will find they have an advantage.

Steve

I do enjoy your posts

I think having to make tables adjustments are based on venue, event and do I want to. A gambler has to adjust to conditions or sleep in the street a recreational player just likes the game.

BCA bar tables equipped with the finest cloth and cushions are unsuitable for a bar table (way to fast everything feels like a bunt shot) put the same equipment on a 9 footer and their perfect.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I B!tch about what i am playing on, and the balls i am playing with.

There are several places that i won't spend a dime in ever again, simply because it's no longer playing pool. It's playing a game that falls between pinball and golf in mud depending on the cloth and rails. Not to mention, mix and match sets of balls, or out of round cue balls or both.

Problem is, that with the economy being the way that it is, i see more and more places that used to have pretty pristine conditions, letting things slide, and you end up playing on equipment that gets worse and worse.

Do the room owners care?
Personally, i don't really think so.
If it comes down to the small % of "players" that frequent certain rooms, or the big % of bangers/regular customers that make up the majority of the income for room owners, the "players" are out of luck.

People are always like, "It's all about adjusting!"

You know, part of me agrees with this statement. Sure, you have to adapt to different conditions. But that whole theory goes down the toilet when conditions are too far gone.
Like i'm sorry, but if i go into a joint, and they have tables that have cloth that is like mud, dead rails, and out of round cue balls that are way lighter then the object balls, i might as well just turn around, and walk out cause whether it's a tournament, or me just hitting balls, i am not going to waste my time breaking my arm crushing the ball trying to get it to go around the table, while at the same time, having to deal with messed up angles cause the cue ball is lighter, that because you are crushing the balls to get around the table, are caroming at much shallower angles.

Same thing goes for pinball tables. If i have to go back and forth cause the rails are too fast to just come out one rail, or too fast to kill the ball, that's fine. But if i try to go back and forth, and end up going back and forth like 5 times, or the cue ball shoots off the table on a simple cut shot after hitting the rail, they can take that table and stuff it!

A pool room can forget that Bull$#!T. I mean, i know the limitations of my game, so why waste time if you can't play the way you want to.

But if the bangers/regular customers don't KNOW, therefore, have no clue.
The room isn't going to change any time soon IMO.

Of course, whenever i complain about equipment after losing a match, there is always, as in ALWAYS, some bonehead that comes out with the comment, "Well you each had to play on the same equipment"...
You know what.....GET THE HECK OUT OF MY FACE WITH THAT BULLCRAP!

If it's a table that plays bad, and both players are completely lost as to what to do, it is no longer pool. It's a game of sellouts, where both players cannot play their games, and it's no longer about who runs out, but who sells out first, or who lucked out with the easy out.
And believe me, this gets amplified in the game of 9 ball in a HUGE way.

Sorry, but good pool can't be played on crappy equipment, and believe me, i have watched champions play on absolute garbage, who then wanted to shoot all the railbirds after they lost to a guy they should have killed, and people were asking them how they lost to that guy, when all that happened was that the table was too hard to play on and they couldn't recover when the table took their options away from them.

 

[pooltchr]

I agree with both cobra and superstar that tables that aren't maintained reasonably well are not worth playing on. But the expectation of "perfect" playing conditions are not realistic either. I wouldn't want to play on a table with holes in the cloth, rails that aren't straight, etc...but also understand that some tables will give you a little roll-off on a very soft shot, that some rails play shorter or longer than "perfect", or faster or slower than what I might like, or pockets that are more open, or tighter that others is part of the game.
I play in tournaments in different pool rooms and virtually every table plays a little different from the others. Maybe in the afterlife, all pool tables will be perfect, but for now, you better learn to adjust to the table, because I can promose, the table isn't going to adjust to you.

Steve