Thanks Stan. I'll check it out when it's released.
I Used to Use a System But Now....
- Thread starter BasementDweller
- Start date
Thanks Stan. I'll check it out when it's released.
I appreciate your continued interest. I think that you will be more than well-pleased that you did.
Stan Shuffett
Okay, so I think I might actually have it:
So we know from manual CTE, and manual 90/90, that bridge length is very important, in relation of the distance of the OB to the CB, the shorter the distance, the shorter your bridge has to be in order for the pivot to be by the correct amount. That's why manual is less precise, in that it requires you to adjust your bridge length depending on the shot to get the right adjustment amount.
Yes, you can use rough approximations, and the ball will still go in within reason, but unless you can adjust your bridge by the mm's required per shot, it will never be precise as a visual sweep.
Now with Pro one, you are lining up two lines Edge to (A,B,C) and Center to Edge.
Now the part I can't explain is why lining up Edge to A, and Center to Edge in once situation, versus the same in another will give you slightly different offsets that are related to the table, but it does happen.
The part I am interested in is that by lining up these lines, what you are getting is two lines that are not parallel, and will eventually bisect each other. I think the point that these lines bisect is where your head ends up positioning itself.
Now if different ball situations will give you different variations even while still aligning Edge to A, and Center to edge, it means the lines are bisecting in subtly different places. The lines are converging later or sooner and your head will be slightly closer or farther, or more left or right, depending on where the lines intersect.
I think this variance in farther, closer, left, right etc, accounts for the differences when you visually sweep into center.
I think it's this process that you try and replicate with manual pivoting, by moving straight in with a half tip left or right, and then pivoting to center with a rough approximation of the appropriate bridge length.
It still doesn't answer the question of why lining up Edge to A, and Center to Edge can give you different results. I'll have to mull that one over a bit more.
But yeah, to summarize:
- If we work on the assumption that applying a perception with two lines achieves different results in different situations (just have to leave this bit for now).
-It creates two lines that are not parallel and will eventually meet and cross over each other.
-Depending on how soon or late the lines converge, accounts for the different distances when visually moving across the ball and sweeping into center ball.
-We can try and artificially replicate this variance but moving straight in and pivoting with the appropriate bridge length.
Sorry for the rant.
Edit: Also I think the reason you can acquire the visuals from near the table and farther back is because as you move closer or farther, the balls grow or shrink in size.
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The OP started this thread about aiming, not stroke mechanics.
You came waltzing in with a Pat Johnsonism when you claimed aiming is all FEEL which I think is total bullsh!t.
So we went around and around with that issue for a while and more babble from you regarding how it's just like learning to drive a car and I thought it was more like shooting a gun or rifle when aligning the back sight to the front sight to the target.
Now, like another early poster in this thread, you're switching gears and attempting to turn it into a STROKE issue. Start a stroke thread. This isn't where it belongs.
I can't say we've ever been on the same page about anything except comedians but it certainly isn't pool related when discussing aiming.
I think the link below is where we both stand. Btw, you're PN rolling down the hill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oik6dXm-0l0
Chapter 25 of how many?
I own a very high number of books, dvd's, and older VHS tapes on every subject pool related.
I'd like to make a suggestion to you since I've never seen anything published or available regarding FEEL AIMING. Do you think it would benefit players of all levels from beginner to pro if you put in the effort to author or even co-author a book on FEEL AIMING?
It would be great and help to complete my library with the "missing link".
You, PJ, Lou, SJD, and a few others could put together your collective knowledge on the subject since each of you has much to say about in in numerous posts and threads. And all of you are well written and well spoken.
I think it would be a literary masterpiece and catapult every pool player's game to incredible heights in no time flat.
How many chapters and pages do you think it would require?
My guess would be 1 chapter and I'll place the over/under of pages at 5. I'll be more of a "pocket book" that can be easily fit into a case and taken to the pool room.
I think the most pages in the book will be in the FORWARD with Lou bragging about himself as a great player and life long conquests and trashing of all other aiming systems in existence. His primary input will be one sentence, "Just See The Shot" and develop a PSR.
I hope I can get a signed copy with each of your signatures and maybe "To a great guy and pal for life"
Would you be so kind to consider it?
Yes, I thought it was odd that you thought the rifle was a better analogy. It indicates that you don't understand the point I am making about what feel is. The analogy has nothing to do with any activity like shooting a rifle that mimics billiards. I could have used landing an airplane, or learning how tight to tie your shoes, or, a classic example of a feedback loop, adjusting the water temperature while in the shower.
How about this: forget the word "feel." Go back to my prior posts and everywhere I said "feel" you should insert the words "visual intelligence." That'll make you "feel" better.
Tony, I think you've taken a good stab at it and made some good observations. If I get what you are saying, it is that although you can find ETA and CTE, which are parallel lines, in reality to see them both at the same time your head has to be in between the two lines so if you draw new lines from the original OB A and E lines they will intersect at your eyes, right?
This COULD explain why you get different shot angles at different distances between the CB and OB for the same ETA and CTE. However, this could be tested easily by drawing the lines on a scale drawing to see if the angles change the appropriate amount. I have a pretty strong suspicion that it doesn't work out, though.
And of course the big enchilada is your quote above. If Stan could explain how you get two different shot angles out of the same visual with the CB and OB at the same distance away in each case, then I might become a believer. Until someone can explain it, I have to assume "feel" (oh, sorry, I meant visual intelligence) fudges the shot to make the system work. It is also easier to add this fudge without realizing it when doing a sweep, rather than the more methodical and precise manual pivot.
I don't understand why it is so hard for Stan to explain this one point in a few sentences, rather than telling people to go visit him (which he knows will never happen) or buy his book.
Thanks.
I don't get why it's an issue if CTE utilizes the subconscious.
Why is that such a problem if you are a CTE user? It shouldn't matter one bit as long as using CTE helps you pocket more balls.
Also, this stuff about focusing on a specific spot (like center cue ball) just isn't possible. You can think you are, but your eyes are picking up everything else, it's just the way they work.
For example, trying focusing on the letter A in the line of text below
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz A zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
You can look at the A, but your eyes will still pick up all the z's around it.
Why is that such a problem if you are a CTE user? It shouldn't matter one bit as long as using CTE helps you pocket more balls.
Also, this stuff about focusing on a specific spot (like center cue ball) just isn't possible. You can think you are, but your eyes are picking up everything else, it's just the way they work.
For example, trying focusing on the letter A in the line of text below
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz A zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
You can look at the A, but your eyes will still pick up all the z's around it.
How about this to make each of us "feel" better, we do as much as possible to both stay out of the aiming forum and even if it occurs, we don't post to each other?
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Naah. that wasn't a flinch. I haven't been in the aiming forum for quite a while and found it productive and relaxing on the outside. I planned to keep it that way...until DB, I mean DW came twinkle toeing back in here with his inane posts about feel and now back trying to instigate something with Stan and CTE.
If PJ, Lou, Dan White and a couple of others all happened to be in a bar together and I walked in, I certainly wouldn't join them to talk, drink, or debate. If so, it would soon turn into a barroom brawl. I can't stand any of them and the feeling is mutual all the way around.
I don't have a low opinion of anybody in this forum, really (even if you did flinch). It's just a small slice of life here.
You're a Saint. If not, I'll nominate you for Sainthood. I just need to find the Pope's address or phone # and get right on it. I know I have it here somewhere.
So what do you say Danny Boy, are you ready to cut the crap and leave Stan or anything CTE out of the picture and at least post something positive about any other aiming system or how to implement feel in it's entirety? I really, and I mean really would like to see how it's verbalized to instruct players at all levels from beginner to pro.
You might want to call or email PJ and get the full description of the "Lizard Head Bob" that he uses to acquire his feel. Seems like it would be very valuable to get the visual intelligence and adjustments down precisely.
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Sure. Dr. Dave says as much when he lists the possible reasons some might benefit from using a system. It just gives some guys the structure they need to be more consistent.
Lou Figueroa
I would add to your first paragraph that a player needs to be able to achieve harmony between what they see, what they want to do, and what their stroke will accomplish. Different setups produce different views. They also produce different results. Getting them in sync is tough and failure to do so is often why players struggle from day-to-day.
Shoot. It can be tough just to produce the same setup day-to-day.
Lou Figueroa
I think it might mean that his setup wanders from day-to-day or after a break.
Lou Figueroa
I know you are being sarcastic, but sure I don't care to talk about CTE any more. I stated my opinion, which was based on the original topic (even though you don't think it was). I didn't even post anything until something over 30 posts before me. If somebody like Tony wants to talk about it then I will as long as it is constructive, but again, it isn't my mission to go on about all this.
As far as implementing feel, it isn't that difficult. You seem to be hung up on a different definition of feel from mine, so I don't know what to say about that. Feel, gained from observing what happens, is something the brain learns naturally. Buy Mark Wilson's book and do what it says. (Doesn't Stan's son play for Mark's team?) Anybody who does so and works at it will become a much better player. Playing well is about mastering the consistent alignment and muscle movements needed to deliver the cue straight. That doesn't have anything to do with aiming. Of course english and strategy are different subjects.
Like I said before, IMO, you can learn everything you need to know about aim by setting up any cut shot with hole reinforcers and shooting the same shot maybe 25 times a day for a week or two. Do this with several different kinds of shots and you will be on your way to establishing a memory bank of how to pocket balls ("feel" if you will).
FYI:
His Holiness, Pope Francis
Apostolic Palace
00120 Vatican City
I believe that for amateur players it is very common. After a break? For some it happens going from one match to another
Lou Figueroa