"Ideas on how to improve our great game"

[Gerry]

the name of my thread sais it all. I'm tired of "heres what is wrong with pool" threads. Let the good positive ideas roll.

I'll start. I NEVER in my life thought people would sit home and watch other people play poker! what that tells me is people are NOT AGAINST GAMBLING. I say we flaunt the high rolling gambling road agent aspect of pool. Lets start a show that follows a guy and his partner as they travel around trying to find action and make a living!. there thats my idea.....what do you have?

G.

 

[nathandumoulin]

This is a HUGE issue, one that I could ramble about forever. I admit that I'm relatively new around here and aren't as educated as many on the subject, but I have seen enough to recognize what needs changing.

The game itself is flawed on so many levels. From the rules that dictate how the game is played, to the organizations that control it, to the way in which the game is shown on TV. The game needs a complete overhaul in every aspect.

Sadly this can't be done at all once, and as a result, most suggestions on how this can be achieved will not be practical. People tend to think in a large scale, a sort of "one idea will fix everything" approach. Such ideas require a tremendous amount of money, and more importantly *opportunity* ...both of which aren't readily available.

To get anything done, we need to establish a controlling body that can impose change. More importantly, the organization has to be composed of the right people, with the right intentions. Sure, we all have our own agendas, but I strongly feel that there are enough decent people in the industry, that if they all banded together, positive change could be made. After all, without a proper organization no one has the power to implement their ideas.

Once established, every detail of the game needs to be reviewed and rebuilt. Small changes, made in small increments. Establish a pro tour, proper event coverage, changes to rules and regulations, and most importantly, a mutually beneficial bond between amateur and professional entities.

Pool may be struggling on a professional level, but amateur leagues continue to thrive. A proper organization could take advantage of the amateur community's success, and work to bring the two together. Professionals inspire amateurs and create growth in almost every other sport. If done properly, I fail to see why this could not also be the case in pool.

Again, this is an area where I am not sufficiently qualified to discuss more thoroughly. I do however recognize it's importance, and am not afraid to speak up.

Maybe a little later, after all the right changes have been made, that's when my expertise can be put to use. I feel I have a ton to offer this game in terms of media coverage, however without sufficient opportunity, there is no means for me to implement such change.

 

[Sax]

great post!

This is a HUGE issue, one that I could ramble about forever. I admit that I'm relatively new around here and aren't as educated as many on the subject, but I have seen enough to recognize what needs changing.

The game itself is flawed on so many levels. From the rules that dictate how the game is played, to the organizations that control it, to the way in which the game is shown on TV. The game needs a complete overhaul in every aspect.

Sadly this can't be done at all once, and as a result, most suggestions on how this can be achieved will not be practical. People tend to think in a large scale, a sort of "one idea will fix everything" approach. Such ideas require a tremendous amount of money, and more importantly *opportunity* ...both of which aren't readily available.

To get anything done, we need to establish a controlling body that can impose change. More importantly, the organization has to be composed of the right people, with the right intentions. Sure, we all have our own agendas, but I strongly feel that there are enough decent people in the industry, that if they all banded together, positive change could be made. After all, without a proper organization no one has the power to implement their ideas.

Once established, every detail of the game needs to be reviewed and rebuilt. Small changes, made in small increments. Establish a pro tour, proper event coverage, changes to rules and regulations, and most importantly, a mutually beneficial bond between amateur and professional entities.

Pool may be struggling on a professional level, but amateur leagues continue to thrive. A proper organization could take advantage of the amateur community's success, and work to bring the two together. Professionals inspire amateurs and create growth in almost every other sport. If done properly, I fail to see why this could not also be the case in pool.

Again, this is an area where I am not sufficiently qualified to discuss more thoroughly. I do however recognize it's importance, and am not afraid to speak up.

Maybe a little later, after all the right changes have been made, that's when my expertise can be put to use. I feel I have a ton to offer this game in terms of media coverage, however without sufficient opportunity, there is no means for me to implement such change.

Very well said. I can't really think of much to add to what you have said.

The big problem I see is the fact that there are so many groups already involved with invested interest in the way they are trying influence the sport. BCA, APA and so on. If things played out more like how NASCAR came about the devided loyalties wouldn't be holding up the show. How would pool get past that I wonder?

 

[paksat]

I believe the APA has an incredible future if it just evolves some.

Mosconi cup needs to get on TV first and foremost.

9 ball needs to get phased out or evolve

others to be added soon..

 

[justadub]

I believe Nathan is spot-on. All of his points make a lot of sense to me.

Some sort of organization needs to happen within the players ranks. It doesn't have to be a grand operation (at first) but it seems unbelievable that there is no collective thinking on players parts. Virtually every other mainstream sport has it's players organized. A formal "union" isn't necessary, but one unified voice to speak on behalf of the players seems quite reasonable.

Along the same lines, or perhaps associated with a players group, there needs to be a National organization to be a governing body for pool in the US. One that can standardize rules, tournament structures, etc. BCA seems to be a paper tiger, from what I've read.

With those two organizations in place, negotiations can be made for events, for sponsors, for tournaments in general. A real pro tour.

Nathan is also right about another thing. This needs to be done in small steps. All of us dream about and envision this all coming together overnight, and we wake up to a reality where a pro tour is in place, events are regularly occurring, players get paid... maybe even some TV. That isn't going to happen in any sort of a short time. Small steps, small victories.... they will grow into bigger and better things.

Yup, I'm an incurable optimist. Dreaming is free. But sometimes people get together and make stuff happen.

 

[BRKNRUN]

More/better statistics shown during events on TV.

How about showing clips of matches of how the player got to the TV match.......The way it is done now...it appears as if only about 4 to 8 guys are actually in the event.

How about coming up with things like pools equvalent to the triple double?

 

[Desmondp]

One problem with 9ball is if the table is breaking well and with the skill of the top players and the buckets for pockets, run outs really are too easy

In leagues, it is getting to the point where very ordinary players are running out regularly which means when it is seen on tv, it's seen as not a big deal

I have to admit i get bored when watching some 9ball matches. When you see the break and an open table and a shot on the lowest ball, you know that rack is over, and at the pro level it should be

Compare this to snooker where the skill in making a century break is obvious

So how can we improve the game ?

Maybe promote 10ball more and have tighter pockets, plus promotional models holding up rack number signs and i would like to see a bit of background music

 

[Luxury]

If there was a way to see with ratings technology after what shot do most viewers change the channel. And the pool organizers could actually see these hypothetical results:
Bank shots: 0%
Cut shots: 1%
big break shot: 0%
nine ball combo: 0%
Push out/roll out: 36%
safeties: 63%

Would they change the rules?

 

[enzo]

honestly, i know you said positive, but i think -- truly -- that bringing pool up would be about as difficult as bringing say golf or tennis down. there is a physical law and it definitely translates to real life, things in motion stay in motion, and a sport at rest will stay at rest. if one were to try and get it moving, it would take an extreme amount of "force" in the initial stages. i truly dont think anybody is willing to put as much effort as is needed in, as the financial incentive isn't there... it is going to take a lot more than some posts in a forum, ill tell you that. and now for positive.... i think if somebody did get it off the ground, i believe a lot of the responsibility would lie with the players after that. i really think we need to focus on the players, encourage them somehow to act a little better in general. i know if i was kt back in the day i would have thrown out playing credentials to a larger extent, and been looking at other aspects to choose players. i personally think names like john schmidt, oscar (and ernesto) dominguez, luis ulrich, keith, morro (im obviously from the west coast)... entertainers... and bright, young, good looking, maybe even educated players that could represent the sport well. and after it got off the ground youd then (ideally) base entry onto the tour on performance alone.

 

[CarlB]

Here is my honest opinion about it. So take it for what its worth. We all would agree that our world is fantastic:
- Here in our world, we enjoy watching top level play,
- We enjoy watching tough shots made,
- We enjoy watching 5 and 6-packs,
- We enjoy seeing a good safety, then a good kick or jump shot,
- We can sit and watch top layers run 100+ balls,
- We enjoy watching a solid 1-pocket match.

Now that I got that out of the way, here is the difference between other large TV sports that are booming:

- Poker has fields of 6000+ people at the main event and people watch because of a few reasons:
- It gives the illusion that anyone can win millions! not tens of thousands.
- People watch because they feel the excitment of the hands.
- Pool is boring to watch on TV to a non-pool enthusiast.
- Pool takes a LOT more practice to compete than poker.

Truth is, in my opinion, you can only fix pool for people who are interested in pool. In order for the actual interest to boom, we need another "color of money" boom. It is no different than the martial arts boom in the 80s, Karate Kid came out. The Pool boom after a good production pool film came out.

Perhaps a Television network backed roadie would be the way to go. Set up the cameras, Don't air any shows until after the "season" is filmed. Go to pool rooms and book high stakes, high pressure matches.

Carl

 

[3kushn]

The camera men and editors should know the game.

My biggest complaint is the camera when watching matches. They always pan in to the OB or show only the bridge to CB as the shot is taken. We never see the stroke. I just looked at the "Monster Pool" thread and for crying out loud they have a camera inside the pocket. What am I supposed to learn from that. Gravity helps the ball drop?

Stated above, pool only interests pool players so that's the immediate market. This Forum is successful in a big way because its a learning tool. The way pool is displayed on TV there's very little to learn from watching other than who won the match and the score.

Upgrade the video crew is my suggestion. If something can be learned from watching maybe it could help grow the sport with new players.

I like the road player idea but it would have limited venues. Nevada and the casinos and not sure if all casinos would be a safe haven. The State wants their cut always.

 

[Slh]

poker its so large in tv because everyone can play it. Everyone in his life have played poker at least once. Basically you can play like a great poker player against your friend with little pratice and knowledge, the first time you play pool you look ridicolous and it takes long time to look atleast decent with little pratice. A lot of people get frustated after the first time and they don't play the game anymore.
There are lots of people who never played pool. For non pool people all the shots are easy except banks, jumps and kicks. My dad who doesn't know anything about pool watched a match of 9 ball with me. At one time a player played a nice kick safe and my dad had basically no reactions. Then the player played a hanger bank and he said "it was a great shot", when the kick was 1 million times harder and the bank was a very easy one. Simply non pool people don't understand the difficulty of pool. This is an example there are a lot of non pool people comments as you can see a lot of people are wondering why there are these shots that they think are easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnrCus04kDw&feature=related

 

[poolplayer2093]

close all the card rooms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jason Robichaud]

One problem is, 1000 local tours with TD's around the country making the $$. Try new sponsors... Get tobacco to sponsor pool! They can't advertise on TV and really have no current advertising venue, but is anything stopping them from streams? You can buy smokes online, might be a loophole here. If DCC has over 300,000 views for the week, that is a strong number to show Winston.

 

[Gerry]

I think I"m realizing I have no idea how non-pool playing people look at the sport. I have been a fan my whole life, so when pool was big it was GREAT and figured people finally figured out how cool the game is.

When it died down .....I could kinda see why, but wondered where everyone went? I always thought the tour directors, or ESPN, or the powers that be screwed something up?....not that people stopped liking the sport.

Anyway, the world has changed since then, and a different approach is needed. I don't know who would be right for the part, but a low buget video made with a cell phone showing a road player barking up a game....not laying down, but show the negotiations, the room, the people, the nasty hotel rooms, sleeping in the car.....maybe a road trip by 2 young guns on the way to the Derby trying to make some money on the way.

I wouldn't put this video on tv, but on the web like youtube, vimeo etc.....viral spreads like no other means and its free! everyone has a cell phone, and there really is no over head or production etc. i dunno, just hinking outloud.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I think I"m realizing I have no idea how non-pool playing people look at the sport. I have been a fan my whole life, so when pool was big it was GREAT and figured people finally figured out how cool the game is.

When it died down .....I could kinda see why, but wondered where everyone went? I always thought the tour directors, or ESPN, or the powers that be screwed something up?....not that people stopped liking the sport.

Anyway, the world has changed since then, and a different approach is needed. I don't know who would be right for the part, but a low buget video made with a cell phone showing a road player barking up a game....not laying down, but show the negotiations, the room, the people, the nasty hotel rooms, sleeping in the car.....maybe a road trip by 2 young guns on the way to the Derby trying to make some money on the way.

I wouldn't put this video on tv, but on the web like youtube, vimeo etc.....viral spreads like no other means and its free! everyone has a cell phone, and there really is no over head or production etc. i dunno, just hinking outloud.

i'm not saying your idea's a winner. it's good that you're thinking about it though. we gotta be like big tobacco and get 'em hooked young. maybe a ymca class or something

 

[justadub]

I'm really hoping Joe Rogan can get something cooking on Spike. He's alluded to having an idea or two kicking around in the past. He has an established fan base, and knows pool. It wouldn't be half-a$$ed if it happens.

I'm not thinking that alone would "save" or "fix" anything. I'm just hoping it might spur a little more similar activity on the smaller cable networks that are always looking for programming. Not the ESPN's of the world, but Spike, Versus, etc.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

One problem is, 1000 local tours with TD's around the country making the $$. Try new sponsors... Get tobacco to sponsor pool! They can't advertise on TV and really have no current advertising venue, but is anything stopping them from streams? You can buy smokes online, might be a loophole here. If DCC has over 300,000 views for the week, that is a strong number to show Winston.

Camel used to be a big sponsor of pool until Federal legislation made this illegal. Back in 2000 and 2001, I went to Las Vegas for the APA National Championships sponsored by Camel and it was a circus. There was smoking EVERYWHERE. Camel was giving out cigarettes to everyeone. Looking back, it was probably the most disgusting display of disregard for human health I've ever seen and I'm a smoker.

 

[enzo]

One problem is, 1000 local tours with TD's around the country making the $$. Try new sponsors... Get tobacco to sponsor pool! They can't advertise on TV and really have no current advertising venue, but is anything stopping them from streams? You can buy smokes online, might be a loophole here. If DCC has over 300,000 views for the week, that is a strong number to show Winston.

imo, this is the good type of thinking we would need. problem is, the tobacco industry is so smart and well funded, im sure they have already looked into these options and were not thrilled by them, and i dont blame them to be honest. but i still think this is a good general idea.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

imo, this is the good type of thinking we would need. problem is, the tobacco industry is so smart and well funded, im sure they have already looked into these options and were not thrilled by them, and i dont blame them to be honest. but i still think this is a good general idea.

It's illegal. Federal law banned tobacco companies from sponsoring sports events - including pool. The APA and Camel had a long history until then.