If I had cues made to my specs, then would it be fair to say that I made them?

[Straightpool_99]

If I had a cue maker build me a line of cues, that I designed, and asked the cue maker to put my own unique custom logo on them, then would it be fair to market the cues as custom cues made by myself?

I keep hearing of people doing this, and it just does not seem right.

If you did not build the cue, then do not try to deceive people by saying that you were the cue maker.

For example, I have read that Adam / Helmstetter built a line of cues for this one guy, to his specs, and his designs, and he turned around, and marketed the cues as "custom cues" made by him.

There just seems to be so much deception in this sport, with dishonest marketing, and doing anything possible to get sales.

People need to start being honest about every aspect of the product that they are selling, and if they can't do that, or are unwilling to do that, then they should not be trying to sell that product.

Nothing about the cue would be all that unique though.

I would chose the woods, the design, the tip, the ferrule, and the type of taper I would want on the cue. Other then that, there would not be anything unique about the construction of the cue.

The only thing that would be unique about it would be my own custom logo.

I guess at the end of the day, all that matters is that the customer is happy with the product they purchased though.

People are doing this all the time. Brunswick had cues made by Joss and various others, with their logo on them, Predator has done the same. It would all depend of how involved you were in the actual design and building process. These are people that probably specified most steps and materials in the production process etc.

Ordering 10 cues online from a standard list of features does not make you a designer, even if you slap your logo on them. Sure, its "your line of cues", much like many offices used to have pencils with their company logo on them. Many manufacturers have the option of engraving, it's not that special.

The question would be "why", though? Why should people order cues that you had specified for them, rather than getting their own specs made to order? Especially, if as you say, most features would be standard? I'm not trying to put you down here, but if you go this route, this is a question that you need to ask yourself. Unless its a unique combination, you're a famous player or something, it makes little sense.

 

[HNTFSH]

If I had a cue maker build me a line of cues, that I designed, and asked the cue maker to put my own unique custom logo on them, then would it be fair to market the cues as custom cues made by myself?

I keep hearing of people doing this, and it just does not seem right.

If you did not build the cue, then do not try to deceive people by saying that you were the cue maker.

For example, I have read that Adam / Helmstetter built a line of cues for this one guy, to his specs, and his designs, and he turned around, and marketed the cues as "custom cues" made by him.

There just seems to be so much deception in this sport, with dishonest marketing, and doing anything possible to get sales.

People need to start being honest about every aspect of the product that they are selling, and if they can't do that, or are unwilling to do that, then they should not be trying to sell that product.

Tell me about, I own a Robert Weir cue. :lmao:

If you're not familiar with the story you can google it back to this site for background. Now wife, then girlfriend, bought it for me in the early 80's and we both heard the story about the up and coming Texas cue maker Bob Weir. :slap:

But as it turns out it is a great playing cue, hits great for me. Stayed straight together and apart for 40 years now. I sent it to Proficient for a refinish, ferrule, and tip along with a fix to the weigh bolt I screwed up a couple months ago.

Couldn't have cost more the $125.00 back then. Wouldn't trade it for the world
now. I wonder what it would be worth now if Bob Weir was a famous cue maker?? :rotflmao1:

 

[animatedvmaker]

First Preds were made by Joss.

Really? Are you sure about that? I always read that they were made by Falcon, in Canada.

Who knows who made the 1st "Pre Cat" 314 shafts though.

 

[logical]

Ford sharing a vehicle platform with Mazda is not the same thing unless Ford had advertised that they were being hand assembled by Enzo Ferrari. Everybody who cares even a little about the origin of their vehicle (most don't) can access the info if they care to.

Sent from the future.

 

[Cron]

Very fair information on labeled product.

In your scenario, who is analogous to the "author"? The guy who owns the specifications or the guy contracted to build it?

Assuming you mean software, technically you can only apply the concept of "made" to software if a single entity/author wrote 75% or more (this follows the same laws as copyright). If you want software made, you pay someone to make it, but you still have to attribute who makes it even if you design it. For example, you've just made me software that does X, Y and Z by my design. You made it, I designed it.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Really? Are you sure about that? I always read that they were made by Falcon, in Canada.

Who knows who made the 1st "Pre Cat" 314 shafts though.

Very sure. Also, the first shafts weren’t 10 piece. There are some 12 piece shafts, early on, and very few 14 piece shafts. They settled on 10 a little later. Falcon started making their cues for them when they started getting larger, and decided to take advantage of a weak Canadian dollar to stretch their contract dollar. They also coincidentally LEFT Falcon when the US dollar tanked in 2007, and outsourced to Asia for the remainder of their existence, aside from a brief period where Samsara made their shafts for them in the interim between KPS and Taican swapping manufacturing duties.

But I may not be sure....

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If I had a cue maker build me a line of cues, that I designed, and asked the cue maker to put my own unique custom logo on them, then would it be fair to market the cues as custom cues made by myself?

I keep hearing of people doing this, and it just does not seem right.

Sounds misleading to me. I'd be comfortable putting my own name/logo on them and saying they're made to my design/specifications, but not saying I "made" them.

pj
chgo

 

[animatedvmaker]

How many of the hundreds of people that build Fords are named Ford?

They work for the Ford company though, right?

Just like Frey was an employee of Tim Scruggs, and worked in his shop, building cues.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

They work for the Ford company though, right?

Just like Frey was an employee of Tim Scruggs, and worked in his shop, building cues.

Do people forget that Mike Cochran did the vast majority of the work at the Scruggs shop?

 

[animatedvmaker]

Tell me about, I own a Robert Weir cue. :lmao:

If you're not familiar with the story you can google it back to this site for background. Now wife, then girlfriend, bought it for me in the early 80's and we both heard the story about the up and coming Texas cue maker Bob Weir. :slap:

But as it turns out it is a great playing cue, hits great for me. Stayed straight together and apart for 40 years now. I sent it to Proficient for a refinish, ferrule, and tip along with a fix to the weigh bolt I screwed up a couple months ago.

Couldn't have cost more the $125.00 back then. Wouldn't trade it for the world
now. I wonder what it would be worth now if Bob Weir was a famous cue maker?? :rotflmao1:

Yeah, every time I have seen a Flying W cue for sale, it has been marketed as a Bob or Robert Weir custom cue, as if it were custom made by Robert Weir.

I take that back, sometimes the seller knows the true origin of the cue, and markets it as an Adam / Helmstetter, but I think that others were originally conned into thinking that they purchased a true custom made pool cue, made by Robert Weir (custom cue maker).

I have so much respect for Adam / Helmstetter cues though. I think they are very good quality, and really great hitting cues.

By the way, I was originally referring to a guy named Andy Diamond, who had Helmstetter build him a line of cues, that he may have designed, and then he marketed them as custom cues that he / himself built, and many owners probably still believe that their Diamond cue was a US made custom cue, by Andy Diamond.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=207296

 

[Ken_4fun]

Yeah, great marketing, a really cool logo, and a really good cue maker (which was Falcon of Canada) to build their cues.

And maybe the 1st cue maker to come out with a unique idea for a LD shaft.

Agreed.

This isn't a new thing, just some folks don't know how things work.

Wineries is another one. Sutter Homes winery makes wine for a lot of "name" wineries. The wine snobs would never admit it, but Sutter Homes produces a lot of wine.....just changing the label.

Ken

 

[Cornerman]

Assuming you mean software, technically you can only apply the concept of "made" to software if a single entity/author wrote 75% or more (this follows the same laws as copyright). If you want software made, you pay someone to make it, but you still have to attribute who makes it even if you design it. For example, you've just made me software that does X, Y and Z by my design. You made it, I designed it.

actually, I’m talking about physical, mechanical product. In your example, you were talking about an author of a book. So I’m asking what is the analogy in this particular case for the author ?

 

[Cornerman]

Agreed.

This isn't a new thing, just some folks don't know how things work.

Wineries is another one. Sutter Homes winery makes wine for a lot of "name" wineries. The wine snobs would never admit it, but Sutter Homes produces a lot of wine.....just changing the label.

Ken

I cant give more greenies.

This is what I’ve been trying to say., whether it’s contract manufacturing, contract winery, etc. it happens all the time.

 

[animatedvmaker]

Very sure. Also, the first shafts weren’t 10 piece. There are some 12 piece shafts, early on, and very few 14 piece shafts. They settled on 10 a little later. Falcon started making their cues for them when they started getting larger, and decided to take advantage of a weak Canadian dollar to stretch their contract dollar. They also coincidentally LEFT Falcon when the US dollar tanked in 2007, and outsourced to Asia for the remainder of their existence, aside from a brief period where Samsara made their shafts for them in the interim between KPS and Taican swapping manufacturing duties.

But I may not be sure....

That is really interesting.

I wonder, how long did Joss build the Predator cues, and would you be able to tell them apart from the Canadian Falcon made Predator cues?

I wonder why this is not more widely known, that Joss made Predator cues, originally.

Maybe this has been talked about in the past on the forums, but I must have missed it.

It is also very interesting to learn that Samsara made their shafts, but that was after 2007?

I wonder who made the original Pre Cat 314 shafts. Those are amazing hitting shafts.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

That is really interesting.

I wonder, how long did Joss build the Predator cues, and would you be able to tell them apart from the Canadian Falcon made Predator cues?

I wonder why this is not more widely known, that Joss made Predator cues, originally.

Maybe this has been talked about in the past on the forums, but I must have missed it.

It is also very interesting to learn that Samsara made their shafts, but that was after 2007?

I wonder who made the original Pre Cat 314 shafts. Those are amazing hitting shafts.

The earliest Predators had a plain black ring, instead of the silver trim ring. Those cues were made by Joss. Pre cat. The logo was a 314 in their script.

 

[animatedvmaker]

Do people forget that Mike Cochran did the vast majority of the work at the Scruggs shop?

Yeah, I have heard both names in the past, as people who worked for Tim Scruggs. Were they both at his shop at the same time, or did one replace the other at some point in time? Just curious.

I remember that it was Mike Cochran who replied to an email that I sent Tim Scruggs (back in around 2008) about a Scruggs cue that I wanted to get refinished, and he quoted me the info that I requested.

 

[animatedvmaker]

The earliest Predators had a plain black ring, instead of the silver trim ring. Those cues were made by Joss. Pre cat. The logo was a 314 in their script.

So, did Joss make the original Pre Cat "314" logo shafts, or do you know who did?

 

[JC]

And what about the Mazda Trucks built by Ford...

Or the Acura SUV that was an Isuzu Trooper. And the Honda Passport that was an Isuzu Rodeo? Chevy LUV was also an Isuzu PUP way back in the 70s.

Volkswagen has a van called the Routan that's a Dodge Caravan.

The list goes on and on.

But god help the cue entrepreneur who deceives folks like this.

 

[L I F D 1]

you would be able to say the cue was Custom Made to your Specifications

 

[trinacria]

who knows, bill belichek never threw a ball, but he wins superbowls.