If not for The Color of Money.....

[CocoboloCowboy]

The Color of money was a sequel to 'The Hustler' although it could have been done better.

I agree (and would go spend the money to see) the third installment. The trouble is: now Fast Eddie is gone, and Vince is 'the master' who would be taking a kid on the road. Doesn't sound like a good story line to me, but I could whip up a screenplay in a couple hours to that effect...

Also, I agree with the appreciation on the Balabushka- it could be higher. Right now we are in a depression, and the cue values are reflected in that. The 'flippers' are not getting what they once did, and have to sell a bit lower to keep things moving.

I am also glad they used a 'real' cue maker for the movie, rather than make one up, but wish they used a 'real' Balabushka (or even better would have been to use what Fast Eddie had used in the first movie- not sure what that was exactly and it would have tied them together much better) or at least a better copy than that Joss East. I know Dan could make something that looked more like a traditional Balabushka and also reflected the appearance of the cue used in 'the Hustler' to keep things tidy.

Part of the driver for using (well, SAYING it was) a 'Balabushka' is it has a nice sound to it. I think they could have said it was a Szamboti too, but I don't think Gus was making cues when 'The Hustler' was released, and since Fast Eddie hung up his cue at the end of the movie, he would have had to have had it at the time of the movie, and not obtained it later. Frank Paradise would have been a good alternate, and (slightly off topic) I think his cues are currently way undervalued... More likely it was a Brunswick cue that Eddie used. (I also liked the case Eddie had in The Hustler, which I think was an A. E. Schmidt case which I learned here on AZ:wink.

Yor observation are correct, but they do not need NEWMAN, or Cruise to pick up the story line, or start something New and Exciting. All they need is a Good Script, Good Budget, and last GREAT ACTORS to do the NEW MOVIE.

Robert Duvall, and many other great actors draw people to the movies daily. If you got a Good Script, Good Budget, you will draw the best Hollywood has to offer!

 

[Cue Guru]

Yor observation are correct, but they do not need NEWMAN, or Cruise to pick up the story line, or start something New and Exciting.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here. I think Cruise (as much as I may dislike him) needs to be there to add coherence to the story line, otherwise it would not be a continuation of the story.

Once his 'anchor' is in place, the story can easily move away from him to another main character, and I would not have a problem with that at all.

This somewhat happened in COM. Neumann was the main character, it moved away from him to Cruise, and at the end it moved back to him. It was nicely done from an artistic perspective, and something similar (but done differently) could be done here, or once the 'lead' was handed off, Cruise could be out of the picture (literally).

it might be fun to pull in a character from another pool movie- it would add coherence and believability to the whole package. Perhaps Freddie Prinze Jr. would be a good choice after his performance as 'Jericho Hudson' in "Shooting Gallery" which I feel had a good dose of dirt and grit to keep the ball rolling so to speak... He also has the (real) Brooklyn accent that works well for the East Coast base of the 'new' film I have in mind... Maybe I should start the screenplay and see where it goes.

 

[macguy]

Would an original Balabushka be worth near as much as it is because of that movie? How much do you think that movie increased the value?

A lot, it created a market where one beyond the small subculture of pool did not exist. I bought a Balabushka around 1984 for $750.00. Now this was not from some sucker it was in the rack in a pool room where players hung out and there were no takers. I happen to be there for a tournament and bought the cue. In 1989 I was at the BCA show and sold the same for $4000.00. I had no sooner sold the cue when Black told me he wish he knew the cue was for sale he has buyers who would have paid maybe 6 to 8 thousand for on his say so. Coincidence, I don't think so.

 

[classiccues]

The Color of money was a sequel to 'The Hustler' although it could have been done better.

I agree (and would go spend the money to see) the third installment. The trouble is: now Fast Eddie is gone, and Vince is 'the master' who would be taking a kid on the road. Doesn't sound like a good story line to me, but I could whip up a screenplay in a couple hours to that effect...

Also, I agree with the appreciation on the Balabushka- it could be higher. Right now we are in a depression, and the cue values are reflected in that. The 'flippers' are not getting what they once did, and have to sell a bit lower to keep things moving.

I am also glad they used a 'real' cue maker for the movie, rather than make one up, but wish they used a 'real' Balabushka (or even better would have been to use what Fast Eddie had used in the first movie- not sure what that was exactly and it would have tied them together much better) or at least a better copy than that Joss East. I know Dan could make something that looked more like a traditional Balabushka and also reflected the appearance of the cue used in 'the Hustler' to keep things tidy.

Part of the driver for using (well, SAYING it was) a 'Balabushka' is it has a nice sound to it. I think they could have said it was a Szamboti too, but I don't think Gus was making cues when 'The Hustler' was released, and since Fast Eddie hung up his cue at the end of the movie, he would have had to have had it at the time of the movie, and not obtained it later. Frank Paradise would have been a good alternate, and (slightly off topic) I think his cues are currently way undervalued... More likely it was a Brunswick cue that Eddie used. (I also liked the case Eddie had in The Hustler, which I think was an A. E. Schmidt case which I learned here on AZ:wink.

Supposedly Balabushka is also mentioned in the book. I have not read the book, so it's info I picked up on a similar topic on another board. However the cues used in the first movie were supposedly Rambows. Now one issue would have been, and could have been, that at the time of TCOM Stallone's Rambo was very popular. It could have caused a little legal tiff.

Paradise didn't hit his stride till the mid 60's. Probably due to the popularity of the Hustler, and that subsequent pool boom. But after that, pool had a dead era, early 70's into the mid 80's. In custom cues, no one could argue that Gus Szamboti owned this era, and then some.

JV

 

[Cue Guru]

Good point regarding Herman Rambow. Even if his full name were used, everyone would have latched onto 'RAMBO' as you mentioned I'm sure.

Pity, as Rambow deserved the credit where it was/is due.

Thanks for the time line clarification by the way. I sort-of knew Szamboti was not in the game yet, but did not know the particulars.

(I should write a history of pool cues book):wink:

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here. I think Cruise (as much as I may dislike him) needs to be there to add coherence to the story line, otherwise it would not be a continuation of the story.

Once his 'anchor' is in place, the story can easily move away from him to another main character, and I would not have a problem with that at all.

This somewhat happened in COM. Neumann was the main character, it moved away from him to Cruise, and at the end it moved back to him. It was nicely done from an artistic perspective, and something similar (but done differently) could be done here, or once the 'lead' was handed off, Cruise could be out of the picture (literally).

it might be fun to pull in a character from another pool movie- it would add coherence and believability to the whole package. Perhaps Freddie Prinze Jr. would be a good choice after his performance as 'Jericho Hudson' in "Shooting Gallery" which I feel had a good dose of dirt and grit to keep the ball rolling so to speak... He also has the (real) Brooklyn accent that works well for the East Coast base of the 'new' film I have in mind... Maybe I should start the screenplay and see where it goes.

You are free to disagree, and the best thing is to BANK ROLL the Production with GREEN, than you can be in the Credit, on the Set, as Producer, and Rub Elbow with the STARS. Ronnie Howard could be the Director, as he is a Burbank Kids who needs the work. Plus has directed some winner Movies in the past!

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Yeah, and maybe they could have clowns in the movie too. Maybe rodeo clowns with a pool cue. Rodeo clowns and monkeys.
And Vince would be a backer after he took over from Eddie.
Vince could back the clowns.
The clowns would be from Arizona.

 

[jrackman]

Yeah, and maybe they could have clowns in the movie too. Maybe rodeo clowns with a pool cue. Rodeo clowns and monkeys.
And Vince would be a backer after he took over from Eddie.
Vince could back the clowns.
The clowns would be from Arizona.

thats over the top..thanks for the laugh

 

[West Point 1987]

As I always understood it, both Fast Eddie's and Minnesota Fats' cues were Rambows that Willie Mosconi lent them (and then gave them) for the movie.

I just finished both the Hustler and Color of Money novels, don't recall Balabushka mentioned in either...might have missed it. Although the COM movie had a good storyline (in my opinion), I wish they'd done the book instead...Jackie Gleason was reportedly ticked off that he wasn't brought back for the COM (he died very soon after). Pretty depressing story, may not have generated as much interest among the non-fanatics, though.

I agree with everyone else, it's time for another movie to reinvigorate the pool rooms...I've been through the pre and post COM scene and remember the explosion very well--and my father saw the post Hustler boom and remembers it well. Pool needs new blood to come in and thin out us a little...more tournaments, more action, more fun!!

I'm still waiting for promoters to come up with a formula that would resemble the snooker scene in the UK...I just spent three years in London and spent nearly every spare minute watching the endless action on the TV there. Every player has a back story, personality, controversy, etc. Everything that the movies generate in the public interest is there in the tournament coverage. Perhaps if we had ONE GOVERNING BODY, culminating in the U.S. Open and then a real World Championship, instead of the hundreds of regional tours. The small tours are great fun for those of us that try them out, but for getting the TV coverage, you need one big invitational tournament series that can capture the drama, highlight/create legends and backstories, maybe linking it to the 1940s era of Greenleaf v. Mosconi, complete with dress codes.

 

[Johnny9]

Would an original Balabushka be worth near as much as it is because of that movie? How much do you think that movie increased the value?

Definitely. Look what American Graffiti did for the '58 Chevy, which was worthless at the time. The '58 now rivals the '57 in value. Look what it did for Keith McCready. Still a very popular player. Also note that the "Balabushka" used in the movie did not have notched diamonds in the forearm points, and the wrap was white w/ black spec. Not even Joss makes a true replica of the stick they made for use in the movie. I never have got that one!

 

[cajunfats]

Making a Movie

As I always understood it, both Fast Eddie's and Minnesota Fats' cues were Rambows that Willie Mosconi lent them (and then gave them) for the movie.

I just finished both the Hustler and Color of Money novels, don't recall Balabushka mentioned in either...might have missed it. Although the COM movie had a good storyline (in my opinion), I wish they'd done the book instead...Jackie Gleason was reportedly ticked off that he wasn't brought back for the COM (he died very soon after). Pretty depressing story, may not have generated as much interest among the non-fanatics, though.

I agree with everyone else, it's time for another movie to reinvigorate the pool rooms...I've been through the pre and post COM scene and remember the explosion very well--and my father saw the post Hustler boom and remembers it well. Pool needs new blood to come in and thin out us a little...more tournaments, more action, more fun!!

I'm still waiting for promoters to come up with a formula that would resemble the snooker scene in the UK...I just spent three years in London and spent nearly every spare minute watching the endless action on the TV there. Every player has a back story, personality, controversy, etc. Everything that the movies generate in the public interest is there in the tournament coverage. Perhaps if we had ONE GOVERNING BODY, culminating in the U.S. Open and then a real World Championship, instead of the hundreds of regional tours. The small tours are great fun for those of us that try them out, but for getting the TV coverage, you need one big invitational tournament series that can capture the drama, highlight/create legends and backstories, maybe linking it to the 1940s era of Greenleaf v. Mosconi, complete with dress codes.

Most screenplays that are derived from books are subjected to rigorous rewrites that require adding and deleting components in order to create the dramatic/comedic transitions. When this is done properly, the stories maintain an integrity to the books. Writing a pool themed movie script is difficult. It must have mass appeal, just as you stated. Incorporating pool as a subtext theme in a story is the most plausible method for success.

Currently, there are perhaps dozens of writers, amateur and professional alike, struggling to write such a script. Like many others, I believe we will see a successful pool related movie before too much longer. With great movies, like great comedy, "It's all in the Timing."

That phrase also applied to the development of snooker in Great Britain on the television. Where the British had long established the governing body for snooker, it was a matter for the BBC/Thames to develop the format suitable for live viewing. They marketed snooker the way we marketed the NFL/NBA and MLB. Of course snooker only had one other sport to contend with, Soccer(Football). Matchroom helped get snooker into PrimeTime in the U.K.

Sadly, as I have stated before on a number of threads, Television is not the medium for pool. The Internet is. There is enough pool action going on around the U.S. to fill a full time TV station with live competition and replays every week. People like Big Truck are at the cutting edge of this medium. That is where our pool support should go.

Thank you for your post. Looking forward to more exchanges and contributions from you.

 

[thefonz]

more than just balabushka's

if not for the color of money, there's be no pool halls around anymore.

 

[thefonz]

Yeah, and maybe they could have clowns in the movie too. Maybe rodeo clowns with a pool cue. Rodeo clowns and monkeys.
And Vince would be a backer after he took over from Eddie.
Vince could back the clowns.
The clowns would be from Arizona.

LMAO....you should write comedic haiku's for a living:grin-square:

 

[thefonz]

back to basics

i kinda thought that TCOM was cheezy and sucked, like many pop culture movies out of the 80's.
if there is another pool movie it shouldn't be about pool, the characters could be involved in pool but the movie should be centered around the characters like in the Hustler, the Hustler wasn't a pool movie, it was more about it's flawed characters

 

[cycopath]

Smith & Wesson could not build the Model 29 Revolver fast enough to keep up with demand, chambered for the powerful .44 Magnum cartridge. After Clint Eastwood used the pistol in Dirty Harry.

The S&W distributer in our area had stacks of 29's that the store manager said, "He didn't know what he was going to do with.". My dad paid $192 for his 29. A few weeks after Dirty Harry the price nearly doubled.

 

[Slh]

i found the hustler much better than tcom....

 

[Johnny9]

The Hustler was a great movie. More about the characters than the pool, although a little melodramatic, as most old great movies are.

 

[Slh]

The Hustler was a great movie. More about the characters than the pool, although a little melodramatic, as most old great movies are.

you are right, but i love the atmosphere on that movie. Tcom was a good movie, but the characters in the hustler were better caracterized. And i found the game parts of the hustler better than tcom.. I don't know if you intend melodramatic as a flaw or a quality.
It is a pretty subjective term.

 

[Johnny9]

you are right, but i love the atmosphere on that movie. Tcom was a good movie, but the characters in the hustler were better caracterized. And i found the game parts of the hustler better than tcom.. I don't know if you intend melodramatic as a flaw or a quality.
It is a pretty subjective term.

Hi, agreed, it's subjective. As far as "The Hustler", a quality, in my opinion. It made the emotional highs high, and the lows low. And yes, the pool was more natural, not as "set up" as the layouts Cruise had.

 

[Gerry]

back in the late 80s/early 90s Szams were the cue to own in our area! along with Palmers, Boars, Joss, Blacks, and a few others, Szams were the ticket! We grew up maybe 30 minutes from the masters shop!

If we only knew what would become of Gus' cues.....I would have sold the farm to own a few. My best bud Jimmy sent his cue in to Gus to have a few things cleaned up and a few added inlays.....sadley Gus passed away during that time. Jimmy got the cue back and sold it for a hefty profit......nothing like he would have seen keeping it for a few years!


the past is a beeeeyotch!



G.