If only the balls fell like Austin's tears.

gopi-1 said:
Speaking of chess, I don't think Hikaru Nakamura is the youngest GM ever, he's not even in the top 12 I believe...

Gopi-1,
Here's what I pasted from ChessBase.com....
********************************************************
Youngest grandmasters in history
No. Player Nat. years months days year
1 Sergey Karjakin UKR 12 7 0 2002
2 Parimarjan Negi IND 13 3 22 2006
3 Magnus Carlsen NOR 13 3 27 2004
4 Bu Xiangzhi CHN 13 10 13 1999
5 Teimour Radjabov AZE 14 0 14 2001
6 Ruslan Ponomaryov UKR 14 0 17 1997
7 Wesley So PHI 14 1 28 2007
8 Etienne Bacrot FRA 14 2 0 1997
9 Maxime Vachier-Lagrave FRA 14 4 0 2005
10 Peter Leko HUN 14 4 22 1994
11 Yuri Kuzubov UKR 14 7 12 2004
12 Nguyen Ngoc Truong Son VIE 14 10 0 2004
13 Fabiano Caruana ITA 14 11 20 2007
14 Koneru Humpy IND 15 1 27 2002
15 Hikaru Nakamura USA 15 2 19 2003
16 Pentala Harikrishna IND 15 3 5 2001
17 Judit Polgar HUN 15 4 28 1991
18 Alejandro Ramirez CRI 15 5 14 2003
19 Bobby Fischer USA 15 6 1 1958
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Gopi-1,
Here's what I pasted from ChessBase.com....
********************************************************
Youngest grandmasters in history
No. Player Nat. years months days year
1 Sergey Karjakin UKR 12 7 0 2002
2 Parimarjan Negi IND 13 3 22 2006
3 Magnus Carlsen NOR 13 3 27 2004
4 Bu Xiangzhi CHN 13 10 13 1999
5 Teimour Radjabov AZE 14 0 14 2001
6 Ruslan Ponomaryov UKR 14 0 17 1997
7 Wesley So PHI 14 1 28 2007
8 Etienne Bacrot FRA 14 2 0 1997
9 Maxime Vachier-Lagrave FRA 14 4 0 2005
10 Peter Leko HUN 14 4 22 1994
11 Yuri Kuzubov UKR 14 7 12 2004
12 Nguyen Ngoc Truong Son VIE 14 10 0 2004
13 Fabiano Caruana ITA 14 11 20 2007
14 Koneru Humpy IND 15 1 27 2002
15 Hikaru Nakamura USA 15 2 19 2003
16 Pentala Harikrishna IND 15 3 5 2001
17 Judit Polgar HUN 15 4 28 1991
18 Alejandro Ramirez CRI 15 5 14 2003
19 Bobby Fischer USA 15 6 1 1958



Terry, have you heard about our young phenom Wesley So? His style is so aggressive
and he reminds of a 15 year old who goes by the monicker of "Corduroy Killer"!
rauch23.gif


Sorry, have to spread more reps to others...
 
3 great posts on this subject....

I copied these 3 posts from another thread here on AZB re: this same subject. I think they were exceptionally insightful.
(Hope this don't violate no copyright infringements....:eek: )
********************************************************



Today, 06:03 AM
jay helfert
Hollywood 10-Ball 5/24-25


Status: Offline
Posts: 7,878
Join Date: Nov 2004

Quote:

I stayed off this thread for a long time, but this post got me motivated to respond.

I've watched Austin develop over the last few years and he has a lot of potential as a player. Will he make it to the top remains to be seen. Among the very young players I give Landon and Chuckie the best chance at pool stardom. They seem better suited to handle the rigors of pro pool. I wish Austin the best, but he needs to develop a little more maturity as a player. Getting upset will only hurt your game, not improve it.

As far as the young filipinos are concerned, I've seen several in the 14-16 year old range who could give Efren problems RIGHT NOW! He would have to get down and play his best to win. Efren would be the favorite over these filipino kids, but they wouldn't be nervous and they wouldn't fear him. They would be trying hard to beat him. And they have some serious firepower as well, and Efren knows it! He knows who they are better than me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jay helfert : Today at 06:07 AM.


#145 Today, 08:19 AM
JB Cases
Casemaker


Status: Offline
Posts: 572
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth, China at the moment.


You're right about the Filipino kids Jay! But that brings up the question of environment. Those kids are among the very best in the world all the time so the "training" they get is tougher than any other place on Earth. The only other place that is close is Taiwan.

In the USA our kids are taught to lay down to trap opponents in order to keep the action flowing. Our kids go to tournaments and they are treated as circus freaks rather than serious competitiors.

Austin will go one of two directions, either he will bear down and put in the work and get as far as his talent will take him or he will quit. Pool is not a matter of survival for Austin as it is with so many others, including a lot of the Filipino kids.

It's a different story when your existence hangs on the game.
__________________
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#146 Today, 09:13 AM
cuetechasaurus
Registered User


Status: Offline
Posts: 2,175
Join Date: Oct 2005

In my humble opinion, I think that Austin should have waited until he was a little bit older and more mature as a player to play Efren in this setting. I have seen Austin play, and the kid plays STRONG! I don't think that he is pro level. He is a good shortstop, and that says alot for someone who is 14 years old.

I really think it would have been better if Austin just challenged Reyes to a small money game at some tournament later on down the line. I wanted to see two champions battling it out, not a mismatch. And the reason why it was a mismatch is because a group of people voted for Austin 100x per day.

He needs to get a reputation before he belongs in a challenge match of this sort, playing someone like Efren. I don't think Austin was selfish, but I really don't think he deserved to play.

I hope I'm not talking down on Austin, I am just saying how I really feel about the whole thing. He claimed that he was ready to play Efren, and he really wasnt. Austin was CLEARLY off his game. But when he was campaigning for votes here, he implied that he would pose a challenge to Reyes. He didnt. Instead of a great match, we got a mismatch, so it was a little dissapointing to me.
__________________
-1000 Rep campaign completed. Thanks everyone
 
gopi-1 said:
Speaking of chess, I don't think Hikaru Nakamura is the youngest GM ever, he's not even in the top 12 I believe...

I stand corrected.. I wikipedia'ed Hikaru, and I mut have misread him being AMERICA'S youngest GM ever.

Still, being in the top 20 puts him in good stead. I was simply offering the viewpoint of being a young, bright star does not guarantee one will stand the test of time.

Russ
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Russ,
Also, I didn't know you followed chess! You're right on all those you mentioned. Personally, I've been rooting for Gata Kamsky to do well, since he's know living in Brooklyn. He has an upcoming match scheduled with Veselin Topalov that is really going to press him.

Yah, I played when I was in high school, and tried to keep playing afterwards, but I soon realized that you had to be rated 1700+ in order to be anywhere near competitive outside scholastic competitions, and I was concentrating too heavily on pool to spend the time to improve my tactics recognition.

I am but a simple class E level player, and have no desire to put in the work to get better. The time I would need to put in with a tactics program would not be as enjoyable as practicing 3 rail safeties in pool.

I still see Fischer's accomplishment of making GM so young to be greater than the current crop of youngsters. He did it basically on his own after he made Master, in a country where chess was not a priority.

For the record, I believe one of the top players at one of his junior championships said that Fischer was playing GM strength long before he officially made it. He did not have very many opportunities to play strong GMs, and therefore get his GM points, or whatever the requirement was at that time period.

I mean, good lord, the kid learned Russian on his own specifically to study what the Russians were learning in their chess programs.

He was a phenomenal talent, who unfortunately had some mental issues (I believe from the very beginning). Morphy was very much the same. It seems that certain types of talent are much more prone to emntal instability. I wonder... I have never heard of Anand being an "odd bird". Is he one of the few that can combine World Championship-level play, with competent social interaction?

Poor Gata. If I remember correctly, his father pushed him hard into chess, and he quit for a few years when he separated from his father. it's good to see him get back in the game.

Russ
 
Last edited:
Russ Chewning said:
I stand corrected.. I wikipedia'ed Hikaru, and I must have misread him being AMERICA'S youngest GM ever.

Still, being in the top 20 puts him in good stead. I was simply offering the viewpoint of being a young, bright star does not guarantee one will stand the test of time.

Russ



It's all good Russ, point taken...
 
Russ Chewning said:
Yah, I played when I was in high school, and tried to keep playing afterwards, but I soon realized that you had to be rated 1700+ in order to be anywhere near competitive outside scholastic competitions, and I was concentrating too heavily on pool to spend the time to improve my tactics recognition.

I am but a simple class E level player, and have no desire to put in the work to get better. The time I would need to put in with a tactics program would not be as enjoyable as practicing 3 rail safeties in pool.

I still see Fischer's accomplishment of making GM so young to be greater than the current crop of youngsters. He did it basically on his own after he made Master, in a country where chess was not a priority.

For the record, I believe one of the top players at one of his junior championships said that Fischer was playing GM strength long before he officially made it. He did not have very many opportunities to play strong GMs, and therefore get his GM points, or whatever the requirement was at that time period.

I mean, good lord, the kid learned Russian on his own specifically to study what the Russians were learning in their chess programs.

He was a phenomenal talent, who unfortunately had some mental issues (I believe from the very beginning). Morphy was very much the same. It seems that certain types of talent are much more prone to emntal instability. I wonder... I have never heard of Anand being an "odd bird". Is he one of the few that can combine World Championship-level play, with competent social interaction?

Poor Gata. If I remember correctly, his father pushed him hard into chess, and he quit for a few years when he separated from his father. it's good to see him get back in the game.

Russ



The phrase "Being a genius borders on insanity" applies well to Bobby Fischer, Paul Morphy and Earl Strickland! Not a knock on Morphy, specially!
1202.gif
 
bumpypickle said:
So did everyone enjoy the big match? I love all the excuses when Austin started playing like the 14 year old he is. Next up we have 230 lb. Fedor Emelianenko against a 120 lb. high school freshmen wrestler that has a really big heart and comes from a really good family. Don't count the kid out, he has beaten some of his classmates so he should do good against Fedor. LOL. Who can we vote for next? Maybe a 5 year old that wants to be a fireman and has played pool with his grandpappy a few times? I know, I know. I'm a very bad person.

I think we all agree with bumpypickle to a degree.What he is trying to say is why should have to suffer through watching Austin pay his dues.Everybody a know was watching it just to see Efren play and its a shame that we did not have anybody in there that could give him a challenge.Maybe like David Matlock we all know he has payed his dues,and if anybody out there has not had a chance to see him play your in for a real treat.And I promise he will not dog it.
 
Russ Chewning said:
I still see Fischer's accomplishment of making GM so young to be greater than the current crop of youngsters. He did it basically on his own after he made Master, in a country where chess was not a priority.

For the record, I believe one of the top players at one of his junior championships said that Fischer was playing GM strength long before he officially made it. He did not have very many opportunities to play strong GMs, and therefore get his GM points, or whatever the requirement was at that time period.

I mean, good lord, the kid learned Russian on his own specifically to study what the Russians were learning in their chess programs.


Russ

Fischer's accomplishments were, IMO, unparalleled in the history of chess. Alas, I think he was a profoundly sad character in his personal life, but what he did in the world of chess borders on the miraculous.

Austin deserves nothing but kudos for stepping up to play a living legend, and I wish him all the best in his pool future.
 
roosterman said:
I think we all agree with bumpypickle to a degree.What he is trying to say is why should have to suffer through watching Austin pay his dues.Everybody a know was watching it just to see Efren play and its a shame that we did not have anybody in there that could give him a challenge.Maybe like David Matlock we all know he has payed his dues,and if anybody out there has not had a chance to see him play your in for a real treat.And I promise he will not dog it.
No we don't have to agree with BP he is an a#$%hole & doesn't deserve to post here. So you're saying that there have never been any matches with top pros where one blew the other out? care to make a wager that EFREN hasn't beaten other pros by a wider margin? When were you on tv? How can you promise that anyone "will not dog it" thats absurd.
 
jasonlaus said:
No we don't have to agree with BP he is an a#$%hole & doesn't deserve to post here.

Being judgmental of a fellow forum reader/poster because he/she says what most of us were thinking is a little shallow.

I happen to consider bumpypickle one of my best friends, and while I totally agree he's being a little "aggressively jaded" on how this match was actually allowed to happen, he's still far from an asshole.

Attacking other forum users for posting their opinions (popular or not) is what shouldn't be tolerated!

Back on topic,

Of course everyone likes to see a good underdog story, but I think we all enjoyed the under card a hell of a lot more than the actual match we all tuned in to watch. I'd like to see the under card in another match to 400 or more.

Just my .02
 
akinnyz said:
Being judgmental of a fellow forum reader/poster because he/she says what most of us were thinking is a little shallow.

I happen to consider bumpypickle one of my best friends, and while I totally agree he's being a little "aggressively jaded" on how this match was actually allowed to happen, he's still far from an asshole.

Attacking other forum users for posting their opinions (popular or not) is what shouldn't be tolerated!

Back on topic,

Of course everyone likes to see a good underdog story, but I think we all enjoyed the under card a hell of a lot more than the actual match we all tuned in to watch. I'd like to see the under card in another match to 400 or more.

Just my .02
Yeah kick me off of here. There is NO excuse for his behavior. I guess he isn't attacking anybody? he's a child & needs to grow up. He is trying to be hurtful to another person for no reason to me thats an a#$%hole. NOT sorry if YOU dont like it.
 
it doesn't matter who is the youngest GM in the chess world. what matters is who lands on top of every major chess tourney in a consistent basis. besides we have a lot of GMs of varying age nowadays.
 
Watchez: I meant the real Austin didn't show up in terms of his real playing ability. The kid does in fact play jam up and in this match he dogged too many clear outs. In terms of nerves yeah I guess the real Austin showed up.

Me, I get nervous when Efren is 30 feet away so I can't imagine how I would feel IF my dream came true and I ended up in an exhibiition match against the greatest living pool player and my hero.

Wu Chia Ching - a product of his environment - he regularly competes against world beaters and MUST win in order to insure that he is allowed to participate in larger events. Also when Wu won he was in Taiwan in a familiar setting. His performance was still more than world class - running five racks and out for the title with his opponent on the hill.

Keither - not exactly a role model here. Keith lived at the poolroom. World class yes, but again a product of the environment he was in.

And of course there are other teenagers who play world class speed.

Bottom line is that this was an exhibiiton between a great young man who is in fact talented and his hero who is in fact inhuman as a pool player. That is all it was.

Had Austin won then the conversation would be about how Efren is washed up because he let a 14 year old kid beat him.

I am sure that Austin will take it as an experience and will resolve to work on his nerves so that he can show up both with his A-game and nerves of steel next time.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
I copied these 3 posts from another thread here on AZB re: this same subject. I think they were exceptionally insightful.
(Hope this don't violate no copyright infringements....:eek: )
********************************************************



Today, 06:03 AM
jay helfert
Hollywood 10-Ball 5/24-25


Status: Offline
Posts: 7,878
Join Date: Nov 2004

Quote:

I stayed off this thread for a long time, but this post got me motivated to respond.

I've watched Austin develop over the last few years and he has a lot of potential as a player. Will he make it to the top remains to be seen. Among the very young players I give Landon and Chuckie the best chance at pool stardom. They seem better suited to handle the rigors of pro pool. I wish Austin the best, but he needs to develop a little more maturity as a player. Getting upset will only hurt your game, not improve it.

As far as the young filipinos are concerned, I've seen several in the 14-16 year old range who could give Efren problems RIGHT NOW! He would have to get down and play his best to win. Efren would be the favorite over these filipino kids, but they wouldn't be nervous and they wouldn't fear him. They would be trying hard to beat him. And they have some serious firepower as well, and Efren knows it! He knows who they are better than me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jay helfert : Today at 06:07 AM.


#145 Today, 08:19 AM
JB Cases
Casemaker


Status: Offline
Posts: 572
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Earth, China at the moment.


You're right about the Filipino kids Jay! But that brings up the question of environment. Those kids are among the very best in the world all the time so the "training" they get is tougher than any other place on Earth. The only other place that is close is Taiwan.

In the USA our kids are taught to lay down to trap opponents in order to keep the action flowing. Our kids go to tournaments and they are treated as circus freaks rather than serious competitiors.

Austin will go one of two directions, either he will bear down and put in the work and get as far as his talent will take him or he will quit. Pool is not a matter of survival for Austin as it is with so many others, including a lot of the Filipino kids.

It's a different story when your existence hangs on the game.
__________________
www.jbcases.com - custom all the way - Unique cases for sale now -


#146 Today, 09:13 AM
cuetechasaurus
Registered User


Status: Offline
Posts: 2,175
Join Date: Oct 2005

In my humble opinion, I think that Austin should have waited until he was a little bit older and more mature as a player to play Efren in this setting. I have seen Austin play, and the kid plays STRONG! I don't think that he is pro level. He is a good shortstop, and that says alot for someone who is 14 years old.

I really think it would have been better if Austin just challenged Reyes to a small money game at some tournament later on down the line. I wanted to see two champions battling it out, not a mismatch. And the reason why it was a mismatch is because a group of people voted for Austin 100x per day.

He needs to get a reputation before he belongs in a challenge match of this sort, playing someone like Efren. I don't think Austin was selfish, but I really don't think he deserved to play.

I hope I'm not talking down on Austin, I am just saying how I really feel about the whole thing. He claimed that he was ready to play Efren, and he really wasnt. Austin was CLEARLY off his game. But when he was campaigning for votes here, he implied that he would pose a challenge to Reyes. He didnt. Instead of a great match, we got a mismatch, so it was a little dissapointing to me.
__________________
-1000 Rep campaign completed. Thanks everyone

How many 14 yr olds can truly say they are ready to play Efren, or any other top pro?

I don't think there are many who can say it AND actually do it.
 
JB Cases said:
Had Austin won then the conversation would be about how Efren is washed up because he let a 14 year old kid beat him.

Actually, they would have said that Efren wasn't serious and let him win (different from being "washed up"). A few already covered their bases for that contingency before the match while disparaging Austin's game at the same time. :rolleyes:
 
jasonlaus said:
No we don't have to agree with BP he is an a#$%hole & doesn't deserve to post here. So you're saying that there have never been any matches with top pros where one blew the other out? care to make a wager that EFREN hasn't beaten other pros by a wider margin? When were you on tv? How can you promise that anyone "will not dog it" thats absurd.

You act like your the only one entitled to a opinion.And as far as saying that I can promise David Matlock wont dog it,I really mean that.Obviously you`ve never seen him play.
 
roosterman said:
You act like your the only one entitled to a opinion.And as far as saying that I can promise David Matlock wont dog it,I really mean that.Obviously you`ve never seen him play.
I have no opinion about the match. just the A-HOLE
 
Austin doesnt have the maturity level of some other players his age from asia and europe.
Thats one big difference i see in the juniors and later professionals from foreign lands compared to america.

with the exception of Landon Shufett who has tremendous poise for his age.

i heard one pro say, "Landon cant be 12, that boy's 43. He's more mature than me!"
 
bumpypickle said:
So did everyone enjoy the big match? I love all the excuses when Austin started playing like the 14 year old he is. Next up we have 230 lb. Fedor Emelianenko against a 120 lb. high school freshmen wrestler that has a really big heart and comes from a really good family. Don't count the kid out, he has beaten some of his classmates so he should do good against Fedor. LOL. Who can we vote for next? Maybe a 5 year old that wants to be a fireman and has played pool with his grandpappy a few times? I know, I know. I'm a very bad person.


that kid has beaten earl before
 
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