If tight pockets help your game then why...

Bigkahuna

Bigkahuna

It's Good For Your Game!
Silver Member
Why aren't these guys crushing everyone on the planet. I don't mean to say that tight pockets are not the answer. I am working on my table now and should be at 4 5/8" when done. I have seen pockets that are far less than this and even one AZBer that had a table at 3 3/8". I have heard a lot of people up here talk about having a tight pocket table and just question the extremes some people are going to. Check this video of these Russian players playing pyramid. These pockets are just a few millimeters bigger than the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiM3tBIB9Qs&NR=1
 
There are so many variables to consider that it's impossible to give a blanket statement.

Personally, I think it's important to be as familiar as possible with the equipment you plan to compete on. It's important to know standard shots intimately and tightening the pockets is going to limit that intimacy you have with other tables.

I know a lot of great players that you will rarely see on tight equipment. On the otherhand, I know some GREAT players that will always be seen on tight equipment. It also depends on what game you're playing. Great 14.1 often requires you to cheat pockets, play odd combinations and caroms - be aggressive and creative. Do you want to play on a table that will discourage you from taking such chances? I mean, perhaps you do, perhaps you don't.
 
Stalev

longhair said:
Uhh... have you seen Stalev play pool?
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I have seen Stalev play and he is incredible. My point is that if extremely tight pockets made a better player then why isn't Stalev or other Russian players reining in pool.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
There are so many variables to consider that it's impossible to give a blanket statement.

Personally, I think it's important to be as familiar as possible with the equipment you plan to compete on. It's important to know standard shots intimately and tightening the pockets is going to limit that intimacy you have with other tables.

I know a lot of great players that you will rarely see on tight equipment. On the otherhand, I know some GREAT players that will always be seen on tight equipment. It also depends on what game you're playing. Great 14.1 often requires you to cheat pockets, play odd combinations and caroms - be aggressive and creative. Do you want to play on a table that will discourage you from taking such chances? I mean, perhaps you do, perhaps you don't.
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Excellent post Jude. I got blasted for mentioning cheating the pocket issues so I hope they leave you alone. (But my post was admittedly poorly worded in that, as written, it implied that you CAN'T cheat on super tight tables but obvioulsy you are only restricted in doing so relative to larger pockets).

But there is no EVIDENCE I know of that proves practicing on super-tight tables benefits playing on larger ones. If that were true, then every pro with a home table would have 4" pockets and there is no evidence that is true.

Regards,
Jim
 
Bigkahuna said:
Why aren't these guys crushing everyone on the planet. I don't mean to say that tight pockets are not the answer. I am working on my table now and should be at 4 5/8" when done. I have seen pockets that are far less than this and even one AZBer that had a table at 3 3/8". I have heard a lot of people up here talk about having a tight pocket table and just question the extremes some people are going to. Check this video of these Russian players playing pyramid. These pockets are just a few millimeters bigger than the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiM3tBIB9Qs&NR=1
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I don't think tight pockets increase ones ability it forces one too hone your fundamentals allot more because of the precision/snooker tighteness of todays equipment and the unwillingness of the pocket facing too accept a ball at a high speed it also gives youth and vision a huge advantage and take experience out of the picture more.

Put another way, you can't anymore run a ball at warp speed down the rail 6 feet have it hit the pocket face, go in, and draw the cue ball back around and down to the same pocket , the tighter you get the more you limit a player being agressive and in turn creative.
With todays equipment it's not common seeing a player catch a second or third gear, in the past it was common, but like everything there is change, for me 'old school' 9 ball and now 10ball should be fast and loose, I even think they should give every player one push out per rack so they can attempt an agressive shot, if they fail they can roll out, now that would make play allot more agressive. You can move into balls with a high percentage of busting up the grouping...but players aren't willing to take the risk, they would rather play into a safe shape, thats NOT 9-ball, and too see agressive 9-ball where you take the heart out of your opponent because you catch a gear and your opponent in turn folds under the pressure, thats special, hormonal/the true life of sports and competition.
 
This is a tight pocket

Craig Fales said:
One answer could be the sheer number of shimmed up tight pocket tables out there...
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These are the pockets the Russians play on......:eek: So, I guess I am questioning some people who have gone to extremes in "tightening up" pockets. If this extreme made a better player then these guys from Russia should be the best out there.
 

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Bigkahuna said:
These are the pockets the Russians play on......:eek: So, I guess I am questioning some people who have gone to extremes in "tightening up" pockets. If this extreme made a better player then these guys from Russia should be the best out there.
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In another thread someone mentioned that the players hammer 'em in and compress the point to make the pocket 'bigger'...I'd love to take a crack at playing some...
 
av84fun said:
Excellent post Jude. I got blasted for mentioning cheating the pocket issues so I hope they leave you alone. (But my post was admittedly poorly worded in that, as written, it implied that you CAN'T cheat on super tight tables but obvioulsy you are only restricted in doing so relative to larger pockets).

But there is no EVIDENCE I know of that proves practicing on super-tight tables benefits playing on larger ones. If that were true, then every pro with a home table would have 4" pockets and there is no evidence that is true.

Regards,
Jim
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Jim,

If you are referring to me "blasting" you, I apologize. :) I didn't mean it that way. We just disagree on whether tight pockets are beneficial or not.

You are correct that it is much more difficult to cheat the pocket on a 4" table, but you can to a degree. I feel that playing on my tight table helps me when I go play in tournaments that have 4.5" or 5" pockets.

The REAL down side is that I go from a nice, level, clean table with Simonis 860 and good lighting to tables that roll off, have shag carpet for cloth and lighting that sucks!!

Time will tell with me and my tight pockets, I have only had my table up for about 3 months or so. I have been doing alot better in tournaments lately!!

Take care,

Russ...
 
Bigkahuna said:
These are the pockets the Russians play on......:eek: So, I guess I am questioning some people who have gone to extremes in "tightening up" pockets. If this extreme made a better player then these guys from Russia should be the best out there.
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I have watched these guys on youtube and I am not sure that will help your game since most of the time it looks like they are slow rolling balls into these tight pockets rather than firing shots in like many snooker players do. I think going to this extreme probably does not hone straight shooting like playing on a snooker table with approximately 1/4 to 1/2 inch on each side of the ball for error margin will.

-don
 
It's funny, Jennifer Barretta and I politely trade comments about the value of buckets versus the value of tight pockets. She firmly believes that they help her and it's hard to argue with that. Who am I to say how SHE got better?

I think it can easily be said that this influences how quickly we choose to play defense versus offense. Depending on where you are with your game, tighter equipment might prove to be beneficial. However, I don't think it necessarily makes you a more confident shooter. Most tight-pocket players I know choose defense a little quicker than the bucket players. Does this mean they're more confident with defense or they're not as confident with pocketing? Seriously, I have no idea.

The bottom line is, if you want to get better, you have to play. Personally, I'm miserable on a tight pocket table. If Russian pool were the only thing out there, I'd go bowling. No matter what, the equipment needs to motivate you. For some, more challenging pockets does the trick. For others, the opposite is true.
 
Pyramid players scratch too much! :)

I used to live by a russian poolroom here in NYC. They had a bunch of 9'ers, a couple snooker tables and 3 cushion tables and about 6 pyramid tables. The pyramid balls are larger than ours but even with normal balls, the pockets are TIGHT. I hit a couple normal sized balls on the pyramid table and from one end to the other, its hard to even see the pocket. It would be funny to watch a couple D players try to play a set of 9 ball on those tables.
 
Dont know bout others but playing exclusively on tight tables helps me out.
At a local pool hall they have 9, 9 footers. 3 of which have 4.5 pockets and the others have 4.75 pockets, they are exactly the same in every other way. And if i warm up for the tournys on the tight ones it makes it that much easier to pocket balls on the other tables. So the less i have to worry about pocketing the more i can concentrate on position thereby making my position play better on the looser tables. Thats just me though
 
poolhustler said:
Jim,

If you are referring to me "blasting" you, I apologize. :) I didn't mean it that way. We just disagree on whether tight pockets are beneficial or not.

You are correct that it is much more difficult to cheat the pocket on a 4" table, but you can to a degree. I feel that playing on my tight table helps me when I go play in tournaments that have 4.5" or 5" pockets.

The REAL down side is that I go from a nice, level, clean table with Simonis 860 and good lighting to tables that roll off, have shag carpet for cloth and lighting that sucks!!

Time will tell with me and my tight pockets, I have only had my table up for about 3 months or so. I have been doing alot better in tournaments lately!!

Take care,

Russ...
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Not all all Russ. No problem. And whatever makes people feel as though they play better on normal pockets is fine with me. I just suggest that there is no EVIDENCE that playing on super-tight pockets does anything other than harm self-confidence.

(-:
 
Bigkahuna said:
I don't mean to say that tight pockets are not the answer. I am working on my table now and should be at 4 5/8" when done. I have seen pockets that are far less than this and even one AZBer that had a table at 3 3/8". I have heard a lot of people up here talk about having a tight pocket table and just question the extremes some people are going to.
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Playing on a table with 3 3/8" pockets is only good for improving your shot making. I think it will hurt your position play .....

James
 
SCCues said:
Playing on a table with 3 3/8" pockets is only good for improving your shot making. I think it will hurt your position play .....

James
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I think you have a legitimate argument however, I think some players will simply play more defense and become hesitant to pocket balls. I mean, my logic makes sense, right? No matter which way you look at it, you're going to improve but it may not necessarily be the area you wish to improve on.
 
TXsouthpaw said:
Dont know bout others but playing exclusively on tight tables helps me out.
At a local pool hall they have 9, 9 footers. 3 of which have 4.5 pockets and the others have 4.75 pockets, they are exactly the same in every other way. And if i warm up for the tournys on the tight ones it makes it that much easier to pocket balls on the other tables. So the less i have to worry about pocketing the more i can concentrate on position thereby making my position play better on the looser tables. Thats just me though
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Imagine going from 4" pockets to 5" pockets!!!!!!

:)

Russ.....
 
Do tight pockets make you play better? IMVHO, yes.

Reversing the situation... if your regular playing table is 5 inch pockets, how do you feel about playing on a 4 3/8 inch pocket... do you think that makes a difference?

I suspect that most players will answer 'sure it does'...

And, I would suspect that most players that regularly play on a tight pocket table would feel pretty good about playing on a 5 inch pocket table.

Mentally, tight pocket table should get you to bear down more on shape and speed for your shots.
 
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