If you are undercutting the OB, you are not concentrating!!

Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Silver Member
Does everyone on here believe this? I do.. 90% of misses that I see, are pool players undercutting the object ball. I think someone called it the "pro" cut by overcutting. A great drill to do everyday is place the object balls about 1/2" away from the middle of the end rail and cut the ball where it stays that 1/2" away all the way to the hole with the cue ball moving out about two diamonds and one diamond from the long rail. Then, do it again on the long rail. Our Diamond tables have 4.5" pockets and any more than 1/2" out, the ball will hang up. A great drill before you start playing.
 
I have been over cutting long cut shots down the long rail.
My aim looks good to me but over cut anyway.
I'm talking about being 5 feet or so away at a steep angle.
 
Colt Kodiak said:
Does everyone on here believe this? I do.. 90% of misses that I see, are pool players undercutting the object ball. I think someone called it the "pro" cut by overcutting.
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What they mean by missing it on the pro side is if you overcut a ball into the corner pocket it often ends up on the end cushion, with no offensive shot for your opponent. If you undercut a ball into the corner pocket you're much more likely to leave your opponent a shot into the same pocket.
 
dquarasr said:
Gearing the cause of undercut? Outside English or overcut to compensate.
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Just so I understand... by "gearing" I guess you mean throw? Gearing would be the outside English you recommend - where the surfaces roll across each other without rubbing (like gears).

pj <- sorry for the nitpick
chgo
 
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PoolBum said:
What they mean by missing it on the pro side is if you overcut a ball into the corner pocket it often ends up on the end cushion, with no offensive shot for your opponent. If you undercut a ball into the corner pocket you're much more likely to leave your opponent a shot into the same pocket.
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I do understand the "pro" cut that leaves a safety on the end rail. Way better than undercutting and leaving a dog.
 
I've never subscribed to the idea that you should try to miss on purpose on a shot you want to make, and I never will. Shoot to the thin side of the pocket, sure, but try to miss, on the odd chance you could make it...NO, hell no, never!

I think some of the reason why a good number of older pool players get worse as they age, before their eyes go or other legitimate problems occur, is thinking like this. "Cinching" shots by shooting a speed that will give you a hard next shot (to ensure the make), shooting to miss, playing too many safeties, playing weak safeties.. You can be as smart as you want, but you have to make the shots. As Efren once said to Strickland after Earl lost and whined about luck, "You don't make the shots, how can you win?".

Look, this game is about winning. When playing weak players they will give the victory to you. Playing good players you have to grab the victory by the throat yourself. You can't fiddle around like this, or you'll either stay an APA 5 forever or become one by going backwards.

Rant end.
 
tim913 said:
If I hit it fat or skinny it means I’m not concentrating
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How much do we concentrate? Not driving, not watching TV, etc. Really, playing pool is the only reason many of us concentrate. AND, it wears off after a few hours.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
I've never subscribed to the idea that you should try to miss on purpose on a shot you want to make, and I never will. Shoot to the thin side of the pocket, sure, but try to miss, on the odd chance you could make it...NO, hell no, never!

I think some of the reason why a good number of older pool players get worse as they age, before their eyes go or other legitimate problems occur, is thinking like this. "Cinching" shots by shooting a speed that will give you a hard next shot (to ensure the make), shooting to miss, playing too many safeties, playing weak safeties.. You can be as smart as you want, but you have to make the shots. As Efren once said to Strickland after Earl lost and whined about luck, "You don't make the shots, how can you win?".

Look, this game is about winning. When playing weak players they will give the victory to you. Playing good players you have to grab the victory by the throat yourself. You can't fiddle around like this, or you'll either stay an APA 5 forever or become one by going backwards.

Rant end.
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Missing on the pro side doesn’t mean missing the pocket. On most tables especially sloppy valley pockets you can hit the long rail and the ball will still go in. If you miss it on the inside and hit the end rail it’s got no chance lol
 
I believe missing on either side is a result of poor shot alignment. So I guess you have to specify which area of concentration was lacking.

Was it when you were standing behind and then approaching the shot? Was it when you were dropping down on the top the shot? Or was it a complete failure of your pre-shot routine or lack thereof?

If you are consistently missing shots on one side, then it is due to misalignment and your lack of vision center. Not lack of concentration. If you are consistently missing shots randomly on either side, then I might say you need to focus more.
 
trob said:
Missing on the pro side doesn’t mean missing the pocket. On most tables especially sloppy valley pockets you can hit the long rail and the ball will still go in. If you miss it on the inside and hit the end rail it’s got no chance lol
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That's just shooting to the center of the pocket. On the Valley or similar big pocket table with narrow shelves, shooting shots along the rail, the center of the pocket (the center of the area that will accept the shot) is slightly rubbing the rail, not the center of the pocket opening. On a tight pocket table with deep shelves, that changes of course.

Missing on the pro side is usually overcutting the ball, because the ball will then usually go away from the pocket and stay along the rail, when you miss, rather than stay close to the pocket like a ball that's hit too thickly.
 
I know exactly what you're talking about.

The problem that I see here is that its hard to judge exactly how the cue ball is going to deliver down table at the object ball due to the parallax.

The parallax is an issue because the cue ball is much closer to your eyes than the object ball. So the cut you know that you need to put on the ball
may not be the cut you get when it arrives, but it looked good when you were ready to deliver the shot.

Distance is an issue meaning what looks good for one cue ball delivery may not work for others.

A lot of things go into correct delivery. All you can do is play the game and realize what is going on so you can at
least know that an adjustment in how you see it and how the cue ball arrives may be not what you thought.

I'm left eye dominant and tend to hit shots a little thick at the first of the match then as it goes on I tighten up and everytime
this is the culprit. It takes awhile for me to dial in for my best delivery of the cue ball.


Colt Kodiak said:
Does everyone on here believe this? I do.. 90% of misses that I see, are pool players undercutting the object ball. I think someone called it the "pro" cut by overcutting. A great drill to do everyday is place the object balls about 1/2" away from the middle of the end rail and cut the ball where it stays that 1/2" away all the way to the hole with the cue ball moving out about two diamonds and one diamond from the long rail. Then, do it again on the long rail. Our Diamond tables have 4.5" pockets and any more than 1/2" out, the ball will hang up. A great drill before you start playing.
Click to expand...
 
Not sure exactly what the op was saying but regarding the "pro cut" I heard Bobby Hunter doing commentary once and the other commentator mentioned missing on the "pro side" of the pocket. Bobby disagreed because you are aiming to miss the ball. Aim to make the ball or play safe. One or the other.
 
I don't want to start an aiming debate by any means but it needs to be briefly discussed here to understand why undercuts are so common.

Most players (myself included) tend to focus on the object ball contact point when aiming a shot. In reality, our cue points toward the center of the ghost ball during the shot (regardless of whatever aiming system/technique/intuition you use).

For a straight in shot, we focus on the center of the object ball and that also happens to be the center of the ghost ball, so we shoot toward the contact point/focal point and we easily make the shot.

Cut shots are different. We still focus on the contact point but the center of the ghost ball no longer aligns with the contact point/focal point. So went tend to steer the shot toward what we are focusing on (the contact point). Just a tiny bit of steering will lead to the common undercut miss.

Case Closed!
 
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alstl said:
Not sure exactly what the op was saying but regarding the "pro cut" I heard Bobby Hunter doing commentary once and the other commentator mentioned missing on the "pro side" of the pocket. Bobby disagreed because you are aiming to miss the ball. Aim to make the ball or play safe. One or the other.
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Two ways are just safeties with some intellectual slop. Should be one or the other but it does address all the issues of 'rock and a hard place'.
 
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