coopdeville said:because everyone in my league is an A - C+ player.
lol
you're a sad... sad... little man.............. don't ever change
Illegal jumping of ball
- Thread starter WesleyW
- Start date
lol
you're a sad... sad... little man.............. don't ever change
Alright guys.... to throw the A-bomb on this horrid debate, I'll prove you that there is a legit and an illegit way to jump the cueball! Here are the following two clips I would love to show you folks:
Exhibit A:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-1.htm
this clip shows an illegal way to jump the cueball. Notice that on around 13-14 tenth of a second that it DOES hit the ferrule of the cue.
Exhibit B :
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-2.htm
As we see here, there is alot of acceleration on the tip going through the cueball, only meaning that it creates a tiny divit on the cloth so that the whitey can fly. Very rock-and-roll, baby!
before I forget, special thanks for Dr. Dave on the vid clips
Exhibit A:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-1.htm
this clip shows an illegal way to jump the cueball. Notice that on around 13-14 tenth of a second that it DOES hit the ferrule of the cue.
Exhibit B :
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-2.htm
As we see here, there is alot of acceleration on the tip going through the cueball, only meaning that it creates a tiny divit on the cloth so that the whitey can fly. Very rock-and-roll, baby!
before I forget, special thanks for Dr. Dave on the vid clips
Yes, I saw that. Jeff Carter made a big stink about it that took forever, and when Sigel did finally get to shoot, he missed.CreeDo said:
I'd like to point out that there is a difference between saying that accidentally scooping the cueball is a foul (by whatever rules apply at that moment), and saying that scooping the cueball should be a foul. I think it should be a foul, accidentally or intentionally done, but I don't play that way, because no one else plays that way, and therefore rule that I want doesn't apply.
After reading the replies, I have tried to read the BCA rules in a different way. I think the BCA rule is saying the follow:
When there is an object ball blocking your shot, it will always be an intentional jump and will always count as illegal.
When there isn't an object ball blocking your shot, the jump will count as accidentally. If the jump is like an 1/2 inch it will called as an legal shot, because it's possible to lift the cueball by 1/2 inch with only the tip. But when the cueball jumps higher, you must asume that the cueball has lifted with the ferrule, so it's a foul.
What do you think of the above explanation?
When there is an object ball blocking your shot, it will always be an intentional jump and will always count as illegal.
When there isn't an object ball blocking your shot, the jump will count as accidentally. If the jump is like an 1/2 inch it will called as an legal shot, because it's possible to lift the cueball by 1/2 inch with only the tip. But when the cueball jumps higher, you must asume that the cueball has lifted with the ferrule, so it's a foul.
What do you think of the above explanation?
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incomprehensible
SlickRick_PCS,
No one is arguing the difference between a legal jump shot and an illegal one.
The debate, as I see it, is to whether or not you can call a foul if someone
accidentally scoops the ball. I don't think so based on the rule stated in the OP.
If you think it's a foul, then I would imagine that in your world a miscue that
result in pocketing your object ball, is also a foul.
Wesley,
I think that if the player has no reason to jump, and makes a good hit on
the OB, there is no foul. Obviously, if my ball is in your way and you scoop
to jump it, it is a foul. Accident vs. Intent. This rule is very clear. I'd be interested
to see a rule regarding miscues.
-cOOp
SlickRick_PCS said:Alright guys.... to throw the A-bomb on this horrid debate, I'll prove you that there is a legit and an illegit way to jump the cueball! Here are the following two clips I would love to show you folks:
Exhibit A:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-1.htm
this clip shows an illegal way to jump the cueball. Notice that on around 13-14 tenth of a second that it DOES hit the ferrule of the cue.
Exhibit B :
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-2.htm
As we see here, there is alot of acceleration on the tip going through the cueball, only meaning that it creates a tiny divit on the cloth so that the whitey can fly. Very rock-and-roll, baby!
before I forget, special thanks for Dr. Dave on the vid clips
SlickRick_PCS,
No one is arguing the difference between a legal jump shot and an illegal one.
The debate, as I see it, is to whether or not you can call a foul if someone
accidentally scoops the ball. I don't think so based on the rule stated in the OP.
If you think it's a foul, then I would imagine that in your world a miscue that
result in pocketing your object ball, is also a foul.
Wesley,
I think that if the player has no reason to jump, and makes a good hit on
the OB, there is no foul. Obviously, if my ball is in your way and you scoop
to jump it, it is a foul. Accident vs. Intent. This rule is very clear. I'd be interested
to see a rule regarding miscues.
-cOOp
SlickRick_PCS said:before I forget, special thanks for Dr. Dave on the vid clips
In reading some of your earlier posts, it's obvious that you've
just learned how to jump the cue ball legally and are posting off topic
to flaunt your newfound knowledge.
I'm sure the beginners (people just learning how to jump) appreciate
your expertise on this matter, but in here, grownups are talking about rules.
Dr. Dave "doctors" his videos to get his "results".
I watched the clips and never did I see any contact other than tip-CB.
coopdeville said:
I'd bet that over 90% of all "scoops" (intentional or not) result in the ferrule hitting the CB based on the action of the CB and the sound. Same thing with miscues. Have you ever played someone who was trying to apply extreme l/r english and the ferrule pings against the CB and the CB hardly goes anywhere? That wasn't intentional, but still a foul. Is it possible that someone applies really low english, scoops and doesn't commit a foul? I'm sure it's possible, but the odds of that are really low and no one has a slo-mo camera-- so I feel safe calling foul on everyone.
This almost never comes up in games, but I just think if the game means something, it should be agreed upon up-front.
coopdeville said:
Well, coop, I'll tell you what, it's a yes and no answer. I have done jump shots sucessfully in the past (4-5 years ago or so). Although I must confess that I am more of a massé player, it was hard to figure out how to hop the rock. I got advice from Shawn Putnam just recently and did some more research. I recently bought Dr. Dave's billiard book and read through it and that also gave me ideas as well as went through some sites.
I would not be so sure if you have a pool table in your house or not, but I am unforunate to even have a table in my house; and even if I did, I would practice the brains out of myself; when time permits. I can not afford to go to an instructor and if I even did, I'd have to travel aprox 800 miles just for one (in Dallas).
I am only happy that I am trying to teach others as you all conservative Aces - Pros aren't. So, coopdeville, I would like for you to respect the position that I am on and please do not assume my position. Thank you.
If I'm in a situation where I can choose to call foul or to let it pass, I usually will let a clearly unintentional miscue pass IF everything else is legal... like they miscue but they still hit a legal object ball and something touches a rail after. If I think they're trying to miscue on purpose (which includes golfing the ball) then I always call it.
I agree with spiderwebb - "The rules need to be definitive regardless of whether someone "tries" it or not." ... if you word rules in black and white, there should never need to be a judgment call. If there ever is some sort of judgment call, it should boil down to 'does the opponent choose to call the foul or let it slide'.
I agree with spiderwebb - "The rules need to be definitive regardless of whether someone "tries" it or not." ... if you word rules in black and white, there should never need to be a judgment call. If there ever is some sort of judgment call, it should boil down to 'does the opponent choose to call the foul or let it slide'.