I'm Sick of eBay Sellers Who...

Cuemaster98 said:
It's great to know that AZmembers are playing nice again...it must be the holiday season:). I figure I would have gotten 20++ "I won't buy from you" post from the usual critic gang.

Anyway, this post give me some confidence back in the Azbilliard community.

Happy holidays everyone!!

Duc.
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I've never had a problem with users pulling the listings. Who am I to tell them what they should sell it for? If they want to sell it to me early, then fine. Better safe than sorry for the seller. If they want to let the auction run and roll the dice. Then by all means. Roll away. And even if they set a no reserve auction and I was interested.....then it somehow disappears. OK. What am I going to do? Force them to keep it running. I've only had one bad experience with ebay. And it was my own fault. I think sellers should sell their stuff for whatever they want. And if they want to shill bid, pull early, and have no reserve auctions than fine. It's the nature of the beast. I don't lose any sleep at night wondering what if the seller didn't pull the auction. And if they are selling something else a week later and I am interested, I'll bid on that one too. But oh well. As a seller, I can understand all the things done to maximize profit. Whether it be wrong or not. Alot of these guys do this for a living. As for me, I'd rather sell my cues cheap here than let them run on ebay. Less hassle. AZ billiards will see all cues i have for sale and ebay will most likely not unless it is an extreme circumstance.

Tony
 
ridewiththewind said:
... I think I am going to start tracking this behavior, and the sellers, and make a list...perhaps when I am done, I will post it here. Think I'll call it it the "Do Not Even Bother to Bid" list. If anyone has the name of an ebay seller that they would like to add to the list, please feel free to PM me.

Lisa
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Before you add me to your list, please consider my opinion on the subject.

While I agree that it doesn't seem fair that eBay allows sellers to pull their items early, similar practices occur all the time in other settings, where in many cases it is suprisingly, regularly accepted...

Supermarkets print or display ads that are incorrect or are for items that they have very little stock.

Car dealers list used cars for sale that, when you arrive at the dealership, are no longer in their inventory (even though 'comparable' models are...).

Software and computer hardware is often sold with rebates that sometimes take a year to get paid off.

Most glossy printed real estate ads are likely for properties that have already sold or are already under agreement.

In real estate transactions, buyers/sellers often have 'out' clauses written into their contracts, and the participants therefore know that a deal is not done until it is actually closed.

And of course, in pool, some tournaments/tours promise prize monies that don't exist. :mad:

However, just because unethical practices occur everywhere else, we shouldn't have to expect that it would occur with pool cues... I'm kind of new to AZB, but from what I read, y'all take care of each other. So perhaps, like others have commented, AZB is the best marketplace for buying/selling cues.

IMO, eBay is just another marketplace= that comes to us with its inherrent characteristics. One of the benefits of eBay is its worldwide reach. I know I couldn't get that market exposure, as buyer or seller, by relying only on the local newspaper classifieds or Craigslist. But for these benefits, I inherit some risk, right?

Remember though, the real money risk prior to an item's close is the seller's burden, not the buyer's. Only the seller (and perhaps eBay) has real vested interest in the sale.

Frankly, it's to the buyer's benefit that a listing can be cancelled early, before the buyer commits (or sends) real money for a sale that would have ultimately not worked out. The buyers have the benefit because it costs them nothing to bid on an item during the bidding period excpet for maybe time and/or opportunity. That said, cancelling the listing *early* is really a *mitigating* factor for the the buyer, and perhaps this practice should not deter buyers from bidding.

As for me, if I'm selling something on eBay, I won't cancel a listing if bids are already in place. And when buying, I try to make an effort to contact a seller before committing a bid. The truth is as a seller I have ended two 'auctions' early, even though for good reason. So I guess you'll have to add me to your list. But IMO that would be a list of sellers that I think is a benefit rather than detriment for buyers.
 
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seller feedback

One way to avoid some of the worst sellers is to restrict your bidding to items that are being sold by sellers with REALLY GOOD feedback. A seller with dozens or hundreds of positive feedbacks isn't likely to end an auction early or operate in other unethical ways. Of course, sellers that end auctions early aren't going to get ANY feedback on THAT auction, but I still believe that sticking with sellers having great feedback reduces your chances of bad eBay experiences to a minimum. As a seller, I don't take bids from buyers with no feedback or negative feedback.
 
why is this "unethical"
it is business, nothing un-ethical about it. i have an item for sale, and i have a price in my mind of what or what i wont sell it for. YOU, the buyer must be the FIRST to meet that price, and you win the item. what is bad about that? by offering you the chance to be the first to give me what i'll accept, you are making a bid which means it IS an auction...just not to the highest bidder but rather to the bidder that makes the offer of what i will accept, FIRST.
this is business, there is nothing unethical about it, and my feedback score shows that i sell what i advertise which means that i am a very honest seller.
ya it sucks when you lose an auction because the seller ended it early. something they did for 1 of 2 reasons, 1- they got an offer for what they wanted to sell the item for (which means you werent the first to bid what they were looking for and you LOST the auction, which isn't un- ethical)
or 2- no one bidded what they were looking for and instead of setting a reserve price they chose to end the auction early because they dont want to sell it for the price its being bidded at.
 
clarification....

polosport69112 said:
why is this "unethical"
it is business, nothing un-ethical about it. i have an item for sale, and i have a price in my mind of what or what i wont sell it for. YOU, the buyer must be the FIRST to meet that price, and you win the item. what is bad about that? by offering you the chance to be the first to give me what i'll accept, you are making a bid which means it IS an auction...just not to the highest bidder but rather to the bidder that makes the offer of what i will accept, FIRST.
this is business, there is nothing unethical about it, and my feedback score shows that i sell what i advertise which means that i am a very honest seller.
ya it sucks when you lose an auction because the seller ended it early. something they did for 1 of 2 reasons, 1- they got an offer for what they wanted to sell the item for (which means you werent the first to bid what they were looking for and you LOST the auction, which isn't un- ethical)
or 2- no one bidded what they were looking for and instead of setting a reserve price they chose to end the auction early because they dont want to sell it for the price its being bidded at.
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I guess I should have made it clear that for ME it would be unethical to end an auction early just because the bidding wasn't going as high as I had hoped (and I had not set a Reserve Price). I understand that your guiding principles may be very different from mine and I certainly will not try to "convert" you or anyone else to my way of thnking about it. If you describe your items honestly and have lots of positive feedback, I would probably bid on your items. Have a nice day!:)
 
lenoxmjs said:
I have never ended an auction early and I never will so you all can feel free to start bidding anytime. I have had many offers to do so already on the James white cue . It will go to the highest bidder if it meets reserve.
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I'm sure you are being honest about this, but we have had several AZ'ers post an ebay link and say the same exact thing...then pull the auction when they got a "great" offer.

The difference between cues and other ebay items is that this is considered an acceptable practice with cues. If you ended a vintage baseball card auction early, cancelling all bids, you would be screwing yourself for future sales. Not so with cues.
 
zcat27 said:
Tap Tap. I understand their position if they sell it early. I understand if they pull it because they are not getting what they want. But I don't agree with them in either case and if I see any of the 'reserve the right to end early etc' I will not bid on the item. If they are worried about reaching an amount, put a reserve price on it. The 'I reserve the right to end early' is to me just another way of saying, if it doesn't look good by a certain time, I'm pulling it. And you see them do that and then relist the item.
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To me if they pull it early and then relist it I think that IS abuse and should be reported to ebay...and send the seller a nasty e-mail too....:D
________
 
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All of these reasons plus a whole lot more is why I don't even think about bidding on Ebay. Way too many fraudulent people out there. So, that is why I think the answer is very simple, if you don't like the rules get out of the game.

Jim
 
polosport69112 said:
why is this "unethical"
it is business, nothing un-ethical about it. i have an item for sale, and i have a price in my mind of what or what i wont sell it for. YOU, the buyer must be the FIRST to meet that price, and you win the item. what is bad about that? by offering you the chance to be the first to give me what i'll accept, you are making a bid which means it IS an auction...just not to the highest bidder but rather to the bidder that makes the offer of what i will accept, FIRST.
this is business, there is nothing unethical about it, and my feedback score shows that i sell what i advertise which means that i am a very honest seller.
ya it sucks when you lose an auction because the seller ended it early. something they did for 1 of 2 reasons, 1- they got an offer for what they wanted to sell the item for (which means you werent the first to bid what they were looking for and you LOST the auction, which isn't un- ethical)
or 2- no one bidded what they were looking for and instead of setting a reserve price they chose to end the auction early because they dont want to sell it for the price its being bidded at.
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An 'offer' isn't a bid. A bid is part of a process that leads to a final auction result. What you are describing is a seller turning an auction into something else. So no one lost an auction if there never was one. The seller chose not to use the reserve because they didn't want to pay for it and they ended the auction early because they didn't want to pay seller fees. Basically, they used ebay as cheap advertising.

Some buyers feel comfortable playing in such a scenario, others don't. Lisa is complaining about sellers who break the rules and put buyers in a situation where they lose ebay and Paypal protection, and the feedback mechanism. The sellers only rebuttal is that they are trying to get as many bucks as they can and will circumvent whatever rules they have to in order to increase profit. It all seems pretty clear-cut to me.
 
ridewiththewind said:
END THEIR FREAKIN' AUCTIONS EARLY!!!!:mad:

I think it is total BS when a seller does this. It used to be, that once an item was listed for auction, it could not be ended early so easily. And on this particular auction I was watching, this seller didn't even qualify it with "This case is being sold locally, so the auction may be ended at anytime." BS. Here's a clue....use the BIN feature!!! Cheese and rice, this just pisses me off!

I know there are several sellers here who regularly do this on eBay as a practice, and it is an abuse of eBay, IMHO! It is stated clearly that once a bid is entered, you have entered into a contract between buyer and seller. These are the same sellers who come on here and b*tch when a bidder goes deadbeat on them...well, you reap what you sow.

Personally, I feel these sellers should be boycotted, but then again, that's just MPO.

Lisa
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Lisa, what type of case was it?

Manwon
 
runscott said:
An 'offer' isn't a bid. A bid is part of a process that leads to a final auction result. What you are describing is a seller turning an auction into something else. So no one lost an auction if there never was one. The seller chose not to use the reserve because they didn't want to pay for it and they ended the auction early because they didn't want to pay seller fees. Basically, they used ebay as cheap advertising.

Some buyers feel comfortable playing in such a scenario, others don't. Lisa is complaining about sellers who break the rules and put buyers in a situation where they lose ebay and Paypal protection, and the feedback mechanism. The sellers only rebuttal is that they are trying to get as many bucks as they can and will circumvent whatever rules they have to in order to increase profit. It all seems pretty clear-cut to me.
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Thanks, Scott....couldn't be any clearer than that!

How much snow you guys got down there? Man, I'm getting hammered up here...power spike from a downed power line last night took out not only my phone service, but killed the thermostat in my heater!:mad: My house is getting cold!!! Stupid snow, anyway!

Just you're luck, this is our heaviest snowfall in well over 10 years!!

Take care and stay warm!!!:D

Lisa
 
manwon said:
Lisa, what type of case was it?

Manwon
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No clue...but, it was a Fellini style. It had a likely vinyl exterior...but what I liked about it was that it had a cool storage unit in the top of the lid, much like what Ron Thomas is doing now, but slightly deeper. The clasps were in real nice shape...heck, the case was in real nice shape....I wanted it to have it recovered with a quality leather...would have been very cool.:cool:

BTW, how's the snow treating you down in the south Sound?

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
No clue...but, it was a Fellini style. It had a likely vinyl exterior...but what I liked about it was that it had a cool storage unit in the top of the lid, much like what Ron Thomas is doing now, but slightly deeper. The clasps were in real nice shape...heck, the case was in real nice shape....I wanted it to have it recovered with a quality leather...would have been very cool.:cool:

BTW, how's the snow treating you down in the south Sound?

Lisa
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Not much Snow Lisa, yet.

Have a Nice Night

Craig
 
Mystick Cue Fan said:
I've never had a problem with users pulling the listings. Who am I to tell them what they should sell it for? If they want to sell it to me early, then fine. Better safe than sorry for the seller. If they want to let the auction run and roll the dice. Then by all means. Roll away. And even if they set a no reserve auction and I was interested.....then it somehow disappears. OK. What am I going to do? Force them to keep it running. I've only had one bad experience with ebay. And it was my own fault. I think sellers should sell their stuff for whatever they want. And if they want to shill bid, pull early, and have no reserve auctions than fine. It's the nature of the beast. I don't lose any sleep at night wondering what if the seller didn't pull the auction. And if they are selling something else a week later and I am interested, I'll bid on that one too. But oh well. As a seller, I can understand all the things done to maximize profit. Whether it be wrong or not. Alot of these guys do this for a living. As for me, I'd rather sell my cues cheap here than let them run on ebay. Less hassle. AZ billiards will see all cues i have for sale and ebay will most likely not unless it is an extreme circumstance.

Tony
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You are saying that you condone Shill bidding?:confused:
Pulling an auction early seems pretty counter productive. We all know that most real bidding usually happens right at the end of an auction anyway.
Ebay has fixed price listings with an option to accept best offers. They now even give the buyer and the seller up to 3 oportunities to arrive at a final acceptable price. They will even let you set a minimum offer allowed offer price with no additional fee. I do not understand why more people are not using this feature.:confused:
 
If it goes on eBay, it should go to the end of the auction, period. That's how auctions work. I don't believe for a second that eBay is not an auction. It may be virtual, but it is an auction nonetheless, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

When you list an item, you are acknowledging that the market will set the price at the item's actual real world, real time value. If it doesn't get the bids anticipated, it's is because the market does not believe it to be worth that much at that time. Don't like that possibility? Use the classifieds.

If an eBay seller wants to offer a cue locally, fine. They should simply advise the local potential buyer of the item number, and let them bid. If the buyer and seller have a mutual trust that makes them perceive the sale to be less risky, going through eBay adds no extra risk for either party, and Pay-Pal fees can still be avoided. If the seller is too cheap to pay the eBay fees, tough luck...shouldn't have listed the cue.

Where I am from, we have a word to describe those who say they are going to do one thing, then deliberately do something else. We call them "LIARS."

I hope you compile that list, Lisa.

Good Rolls,
Rasta
 
Jazz said:
Does "real" auction allow the seller to set the "reserve"?

FS: Josey Ebony sneaky pete - fancy S-03
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Completely irrelevant. It's not really any different than high opening bid price. The bidder knows the reserve price exists prior to bidding. The seller knows people may decline to bid because it is a reserve auction.

Live auctions also take place in a much shorter time frame than do eBay auctions. There's differences in the way things work in the real world versus the virtual world. That does not make eBay any less an auction site.
 
manwon said:
Not much Snow Lisa, yet.

Have a Nice Night

Craig
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How about now?!:eek: Lol. So glad I was already snowed in and didn't have to try and drive anywhere...the commute looked pretty rough last night.

Stay warm! My heater went out yesterday morning, and the repairman got stuck trying to get to us, so I am freezing my backside off...literally!!:mad:

Lisa
 
ridewiththewind said:
Thanks, Scott....couldn't be any clearer than that!

How much snow you guys got down there? Man, I'm getting hammered up here...power spike from a downed power line last night took out not only my phone service, but killed the thermostat in my heater!:mad: My house is getting cold!!! Stupid snow, anyway!

Just you're luck, this is our heaviest snowfall in well over 10 years!!

Take care and stay warm!!!:D

Lisa
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I don't know what 'a lot' is for Seattle, having lived in Denver for several years, but it was a 'nice' snow - we walked around downtown last night and enjoyed it. This morning it was icy and the downtown office was closed.

But here's one reason I love Seattle: Friday when it snowed, we all sat in the coffee shop by the window, with the dog, and my kids did homework using the internet, and me and my buddy drank coffee.
 
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