I'm spotted the 7 and the 8. Any tips?

Luxury

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One of the top players around is giving me some action with the 7 up. How do I play this differently? Is it kosher to push out and roll the 7 or 8 into the jaws?

I use a controlled break most of the time but I also have a break that can explode the rack and send those money balls flying with a little less control. Is it worth sacrificing the control of the break (parking whitey) or should I crush the rack and get some free games on the break?

Should I practice my combos and caroms more now?

Do you play differently when given the 7 and the 8?

Do you play differently when giving up the weight?
 
spot??

obviously your opponent is very good to spot you 7,8. I highly recommend for you to still practice precision and lots of focus. Usually, we get a little careless on this kind of matches thats because of our mind is set to the advantage. your opponent is not going to give you that spot if he does'nt think he can still beat you, you know. So just play focus and smart.
 
Don’t be surprised if you see him play more safeties than usual early in the rack.

I don’t know your speed or his but if I give that kind of weight I’ll usually grind until I know I’m going to get out.
 
i like to tie up balls more depending on how good the player sometimes on a push or an intentinal foul. try to make him break out his money balls so you still at least have the 7 and he has to break out the 8 and 9 to complete the run out
 
Luxury said:
One of the top players around is giving me some action with the 7 up. How do I play this differently? Is it kosher to push out and roll the 7 or 8 into the jaws?

I use a controlled break most of the time but I also have a break that can explode the rack and send those money balls flying with a little less control. Is it worth sacrificing the control of the break (parking whitey) or should I crush the rack and get some free games on the break?

Should I practice my combos and caroms more now?

Do you play differently when given the 7 and the 8?

Do you play differently when giving up the weight?
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If he is 2 balls + better than you, and the 7 and 8 are wild..... try to win it on the break. The handicap is no good unless you are at the table, or have him hidden from the lowest numbered ball when he is at the table.
If you break, spread the balls, park the cueball, and dont make anything..... he will run out. I wouldnt focus practice on caroms/combinations...... focus on running out. If you have broke made the 1 or 2 etc and get to the table with a 5 ball run for the win........ that is what you should be focused on, along with kicking at balls.
As mentioned previously, a player giving you that spot will duck and hide you behind something until they have the runout they want with ball in hand. They are counting on you not being able to kick out of a safety. That is where the kicking practice comes into play.
This information applies unless he is a lower level shooter giving that spot because he is an idiot trying to look cool. In that case you turn it around and play your safety game on him until you have a feasable runout that suits your game.
Chuck
 
Wow. I'm really glad I posted this question. I liked everything that everyone said so far. I never would have thought of tying up the 8 or the 9. Brilliant!
 
I'm glad you posted this too because it sparked an idea for me too; on your first post when you said knock the 7 or 8 towards a pocket if it works well into a pushout is very brilliant IMO, it seems obvious if played right but I ahd never even though of that as a huge advantage.

Regardless good luck, bring home some dollars.
 
thrasher789 said:
I'm glad you posted this too because it sparked an idea for me too; on your first post when you said knock the 7 or 8 towards a pocket if it works well into a pushout is very brilliant IMO, it seems obvious if played right but I ahd never even though of that as a huge advantage.

Regardless good luck, bring home some dollars.
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I like the strategy too; however, you don't want to get it too close to the pocket. Otherwise the stronger player will, at his first opportunity, combo the "money" ball in so it will not be available to the spottee later.
 
JDB said:
I like the strategy too; however, you don't want to get it too close to the pocket. Otherwise the stronger player will, at his first opportunity, combo the "money" ball in so it will not be available to the spottee later.
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I agree and was thinking about that too earlier, I guess the ideal situation would be to do a pushout that would make it closer and still be fairly difficult for him to get to before you can, obvious and easier said than done but its still a great concept I handn't really thought of before today.
 
One thing a better player told me about receiving weight: Dont focus too much on the extra money balls. play your runs the way you would normally play them. It also helps me to take a deep breath or 2 when shooting any money ball in. good luck and happy rolls
 
Just so you know, many, many people have said "how can I lose with the 7 out and the breaks" - only to lose. Ego has cost gamblers loads of money. Don't be fooled by the weight - you will have to play a great to win even with 2 balls. This means a SMARTER game, not necessarily a better one. You have to increase the odds of winning - which can include combos, caroms, tickies, and safeties. "Smarter" doesn't mean that you have to run out more. Also, giving up two balls usually equates to a more expensive game...

FYI: Even with the breaks, you won't win many games on the break with your spot balls. They will be put right behind the 1 ball, and will go in maybe 1 in 20. There is a statistical analysis somewhere showing how infrequently the front two balls go in - maybe in one of Kohler's books. Anyone experienced giving the 7 and 8 knows this. Try an experiment next time you're at the pool hall and see how many times the 2 balls right behind the 1 in the rack go in. In fact, if you're not a threat to string racks together, giving you the breaks is NOT to your advantage. All this does is encourage you to try to run out everytime, reducing the amount of work that your opponent has to do. That is, if you can't run 1 through 7 more than he can run 1 through 9 - then you have to play a different game:

*shoot more combos on the 7 and 8 - as these win for you, and if they hang, they don't lose the game for you. Keep in mind that you can take a flier when you are on the 1 or 2 ball AND anything else is tied up. That is a free shot at the money, without a high percentage runout if you miss.

*Play more safeties, and while doing so push object balls TOWARDS the 7 or 8. If you get safe, you'll have a possible combo. If you don't get safe, your opponent won't shoot a combo on the 7/8 unless it's dead.

*after the break roll out when you can't run out - err on the side of caution. Don't get caught up in trying to be a hero. Force your opponent to try to run out everytime. This will be very illuminating in 1 of 2 ways: If he does run out rack after rack, then two balls isn't enough weight anyway. If he plays lots of safties, then he's played this spot before, and you'll have to grind out a win...

*I disagree with focusing on running out. This is the exact mistake that novice players make over and over. You have to play smarter, not harder. Trying to run out every game will just lose you money. Even the pros don't try to run out every game. You have to weigh the percentages and do what will get you the WIN. Don't get caught up in trying to impress your opponent with your runouts. At the end of the night the guy with the cash is the winner, not the guy with the most runouts. Period.

-td
 
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it also depends on how well you play, if your a solid B player and can break and run out from time to time there stragities for that, if you can only run 4 or 5 balls then there are different stragities, so the real question is how well do you play? then a more accurate answere can be given, the above post is good. assuming your a C player, but if your a solid A player playing Tang Hoa you wouldnt ask the question but if you were there is a different approach. if you can only run 3-4 balls then there is different stragity.
 
I say.....early on.....SWING at every money ball you see. You'll probably shit in like 2 or three out of 10. But it is well worth it. Since now your opponent is so worried about missing a ball next to your money ball. It stresses them out more than you and you will either get really lucky and make your ball or even get safe. But don't do this the entire session. Just the first 5-10 times that it comes up. It will frustrate the hell out of your opponent.

Tony<-----always books winner when spotted the 7 out.....(locally of course:D )
 
td873 said:
Just so you know, many, many people have said "how can I lose with the 7 out and the breaks" - only to lose. Ego has cost gamblers loads of money. Don't be fooled by the weight - you will have to play a great to win even with 2 balls. This means a SMARTER game, not necessarily a better one. You have to increase the odds of winning - which can include combos, caroms, tickies, and safeties. "Smarter" doesn't mean that you have to run out more. Also, giving up two balls usually equates to a more expensive game...

FYI: Even with the breaks, you won't win many games on the break with your spot balls. They will be put right behind the 1 ball, and will go in maybe 1 in 20. There is a statistical analysis somewhere showing how infrequently the front two balls go in - maybe in one of Kohler's books. Anyone experienced giving the 7 and 8 knows this. Try an experiment next time you're at the pool hall and see how many times the 2 balls right behind the 1 in the rack go in. In fact, if you're not a threat to string racks together, giving you the breaks is NOT to your advantage. All this does is encourage you to try to run out everytime, reducing the amount of work that your opponent has to do. That is, if you can't run 1 through 7 more than he can run 1 through 9 - then you have to play a different game: Very good advice

*shoot more combos on the 7 and 8 - as these win for you, and if they hang, they don't lose the game for you. Keep in mind that you can take a flier when you are on the 1 or 2 ball AND anything else is tied up. That is a free shot at the money, without a high percentage runout if you miss.
Taking low percentage shots (caroms, combinations etc) versus working on your ability to run 5-7 balls or playing safe is suicide.

*Play more safeties, and while doing so push object balls TOWARDS the 7 or 8. If you get safe, you'll have a possible combo. If you don't get safe, your opponent won't shoot a combo on the 7/8 unless it's dead.
Good advice
*after the break roll out when you can't run out - err on the side of caution. Don't get caught up in trying to be a hero. Force your opponent to try to run out everytime. This will be very illuminating in 1 of 2 ways: If he does run out rack after rack, then two balls isn't enough weight anyway. If he plays lots of safties, then he's played this spot before, and you'll have to grind out a win... Excellent advice

*I disagree with focusing on running out. This is the exact mistake that novice players make over and over. You have to play smarter, not harder. Trying to run out every game will just lose you money. Even the pros don't try to run out every game. You have to weigh the percentages and do what will get you the WIN. Don't get caught up in trying to impress your opponent with your runouts. At the end of the night the guy with the cash is the winner, not the guy with the most runouts. Period.
Again, taking low percentage shots (caroms, combinations etc) versus working on your ability to run 5-7 balls is suicidal.
-td
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Im not saying try to run out every rack, play safe if you need to. But dont take low percentage shots such as combinations, caroms etc in place of a runout or a good safety.
If you cant consistantly run 5-7 balls in rotation..... this is what you should be practicing. Its not a matter of impressing your opponent, its a matter of playing better pool, and playing the percentages. Lets say you have a 3 in 10 chance on a combination, versus a 5 in 10 chance at running 6 balls, or even a 7 in 10 chance on a safety. The latter 2 options are a much better strategy IMO than trying to ride the money balls given the chance.
Chuck
 
The spot is only valuable because you have three WILD balls on the table instead of one. That is, if you were shooting the seven in a heads up game you would have a very high percentage of making the nine anyway . A spot of 7 & 8 NOT wild does not increase your percentages very much. So their real value is the fact that they are wild . Unless you have a high chance of running to the 7 to win you must take every rational opportunity to retire a wild ball early.
 
Luxury said:
One of the top players around is giving me some action with the 7 up. How do I play this differently? Is it kosher to push out and roll the 7 or 8 into the jaws?

I use a controlled break most of the time but I also have a break that can explode the rack and send those money balls flying with a little less control. Is it worth sacrificing the control of the break (parking whitey) or should I crush the rack and get some free games on the break?

Should I practice my combos and caroms more now?

Do you play differently when given the 7 and the 8?

Do you play differently when giving up the weight?
Click to expand...

When getting weight you MUST be agressive. Playing a safe wait and see game will get you busted against a better player almost every time, unless the spot is completely in your favor by a long shot.

Crush the rack, make a money ball on the break, run out, make a combo on the money ball whenever you can OR run balls until you can lock up the better player with a super tough safe if you can't run out (at the same time placing the object ball in a spot where you can either run out OR make a combo on one of your money balls.

Whatever you do you had better be going for his jugular vein because if you extend the game, you will get beat.

Oh, yeah, put a good stroke on EVERY shot (even the safeties), like that needs to be said. :D

JoeyA
 
The first thing I would do after the break is look for where the 7, 8, and 9 is on the table. Move the 1, 2, or 3 to hook your opponent while lining up a easy combo on the 7, 8, or 9. This is a big advantage if you can do it 2 or 3 times in a race to 11.
 
The question that I must ask is, what do you mean by 'one of the best around'? If the player is at A speed or above, the seven & out is not enough for you unless you're at least an mid-level B player. If that's where your game is at, you can certainly run out when a decent opportunity presents itself and you can play a reasonable safety game. Do just that, and by all means, avoid banging away at low-percentage combinations. That is a strategy for C players who can't run out with any consistency, and as I said, if that's where you're at you'll probably end up getting robbed if you jump in the box with a top level player at that spot.

The smart thing to do is to treat the other money balls the same way you would treat the nine. Play a combination or billiard, etc. if it is a higher percentage play than the runout, and always look for a two-way shot that will leave the opponent safe if you miss. Players smile when they see their fish wailing away at combinations and caroms. They know that it results in a sellout far more than it does in a victory.

To my mind, the biggest strategy change when receiving this spot is to use your pushouts to tie up the 8 or 9 ball when it's feasible. Other than that, just stay within your game and play tough airtight nine-ball.

Finally, I strongly advise you to stick with a controlled break. The worst thing you can do is to give up ball in hand to an upper level player, and if you lose control of the cue ball I suspect that you will lose more games that way than you'll win by making money balls on the break. On top of that, remember that no pool player is going to put the spot balls anywhere except behind the one ball, and you're just not going to get that cross side bank but so often.
 
I have to agree with VIProfessor here.

In essence, if you don't already KNOW you can win with the 7 and 8 wild, then you can't. Honestly, you should be practicing playing that way against the ghost. If you can't beat the ghost that way, then you won't be able to beat a top player.

A top player looks at a spot like this very analytically. He says to himself, "If this opponents gets the breaks, does he run to the 7 ball often?". If you do not consistently run to at least the 7 ball after you make a ball on the break, then you'll get creamed. The 7 and 8 SOUND great, but they rarely make more than 2 or 3 games difference in a race to 9.

So, if this opponent would normally beat you by 4 or 5 games in a race to 9, then you need to look hard at the spot you are getting. Think through it like this.. If I make a ball on the break, am I SURE I will get out? (This is critical. If you are not SURE you are out, then you are playing someone over your head.)

I have personally given the wild 8 and the breaks to someone I thought played pretty close to me. Turns out they didn't. The 8 ball just really didn't make a whole lot of difference. If the guy is giving this to you, he will run out virtually every time you fail to make a ball on the break. Also, he is a favorite to win safety battles over you.

Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into, man...

Russ
 
VIProfessor said:
The question that I must ask is, what do you mean by 'one of the best around'? If the player is at A speed or above, the seven & out is not enough for you unless you're at least an mid-level B player. If that's where your game is at, you can certainly run out when a decent opportunity presents itself and you can play a reasonable safety game. Do just that, and by all means, avoid banging away at low-percentage combinations. That is a strategy for C players who can't run out with any consistency, and as I said, if that's where you're at you'll probably end up getting robbed if you jump in the box with a top level player at that spot.

The smart thing to do is to treat the other money balls the same way you would treat the nine. Play a combination or billiard, etc. if it is a higher percentage play than the runout, and always look for a two-way shot that will leave the opponent safe if you miss. Players smile when they see their fish wailing away at combinations and caroms. They know that it results in a sellout far more than it does in a victory.

To my mind, the biggest strategy change when receiving this spot is to use your pushouts to tie up the 8 or 9 ball when it's feasible. Other than that, just stay within your game and play tough airtight nine-ball.

Finally, I strongly advise you to stick with a controlled break. The worst thing you can do is to give up ball in hand to an upper level player, and if you lose control of the cue ball I suspect that you will lose more games that way than you'll win by making money balls on the break. On top of that, remember that no pool player is going to put the spot balls anywhere except behind the one ball, and you're just not going to get that cross side bank but so often.
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this is a good thread and this is the best post yet better than mine for sure, there have been alot of good posts on this thread.
 
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