Image of "pool"

Im just a pool player( 50 years 7.5 on my absolutely best day or maybe best hour of my life) with no vested interest in the GROWTH of pool and I don' t think the millions of pool players like me give a flying eff. When someone says ," lets grow it ," they mean lets grow their bank account. Leave it alone. Leave us alone. Mind your own business. I used to smoke , drink ,gamble, use uppers , chase strippers , fight , and spent a coupla nights in jail. Of course thats part of pool. Thats why I love it. Now i'm old. I got something to remember.
 
DelaWho??? said:
Dark rooms with big ornate heavy pieces of furnature, mahogany panelling on the walls. Guys in rumpled business suits smoking cigars, drinking straight whiskey, sitting in high chairs, stone faced watching the men work the green felt......A sort of gangsteresque, 50's, old boys club with men gambling whlie they should be out in the real world, in the sunlight making an "honest" living....This is the image of pool swimming around in my mind... Guys looking like Edward G. Robinson sweating the action, an old guy in a visor with sleeve garters, keeping score on the hanging beads....What's wrong with this picture??? It has a certaqin mystique about it, out in the open with it's seedy underbelly exposed proudly for all to see, and men to admire.....That is pool....

McCue Banger McCue
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That is ONE side of pool and it is a side I've always liked. But I'd hate to live that life...or have a kid of mine live it. It is not productive and thus, in the long run, will lead away from happiness. Many here can attest to that.

But there's the other side of pool that I like, too. It is the side of honest competition, healthy environment, good food, players with a life outside of pool (i.e., they have earned money to spend, not gamble), good looking women, business conversations and appointments, etc. etc...all the stuff golf lays claim to.

I don't think this is a "either/or" choice here. Why can't we have both? I guess we do, but the good side is more hidden than the "bad" and that is the public's preception. If people want cueing arts, let's give it to 'em.

I do what I can in my small world to improve pool's image. I attempt to look halfway nice when I go play. I don't engage in fights or arguments over something stupid. I respect others. I encourage newbies to learn and grow and not give up. I also teach others what little I know so they can begin to enjoy the personal growth aspects of pool.

Example: I just convinced a customer of mine who told me he plays in a small pool league, to join the BCA league next year. He told me last night that he already has 3 people ready to play this fall. That is a step up, imho, of his perception of the quality of pool.

If you read golf books and listen to old pros talk about golf, it is made to be the greatest analogy ever in the history of man's attemtps to build great wealth and riches. I sometimes laugh, but that is the perception amongst the public. Pool holds the same power, as it requries the same thoughtful work inside of the player. This work can also result in applying similar strategies in life as on the flat plane. The public's preception would be better if this was wider known.

For that STUPID social worker that ripped one of our beloved posters kid's loves from his life: FUG 'EM! Just more indication that this beautiful game is misunderstood by "educated" idiots. And we're forced to pay for it! :mad:

Jeff Livingston
 
There is not a corporation in the world that wouldn't give their left nut to have the immediate cognitive recognition that the word 'pool' has with the general public passed on to their product/widgit. What other word can you think of that jumps the lanquage barrier with a simple hand jesture (picture bridge arm motion). One could be in deepest Amazon jungle surrounded by natives with blow darts at the ready and all you would have to do is make a bridge hand arm motion and the natives would in unison say "aghhhhhhhh pool hustler!" Then they would dart your a$$...:)
Why does this Oyster guy want to throw all that great ground work out the window....I think I don't like him......:)
 
cheesemouse said:
(snip)
Why does this Oyster guy want to throw all that great ground work out the window....I think I don't like him......:)
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I think it would be more accurate to say that you don't like his idea. (Exception: If you know him personally that's a horse of a different color)

I like people such as Oyster, as they are attempting to improve pool. I have disagreements with his methods, but his goal is fine by me. Most pool players could give a rat's butt about the overall game and its survival/growth, so I give Oyster a thumbs up.

Don't hate me if you don't agree with this; hate the idea and tell us why.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
I think it would be more accurate to say that you don't like his idea. (Exception: If you know him personally that's a horse of a different color)

I like people such as Oyster, as they are attempting to improve pool. I have disagreements with his methods, but his goal is fine by me. Most pool players could give a rat's butt about the overall game and its survival/growth, so I give Oyster a thumbs up.

Don't hate me if you don't agree with this; hate the idea and tell us why.

Jeff Livingston
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Jeff, do yourself a favor and go to Oysters profile. Check all the posts he has started. He is not promoting the game, he is promoting himself.
 
Two sides exactly said!

chefjeff said:
That is ONE side of pool and it is a side I've always liked. But I'd hate to live that life...or have a kid of mine live it. It is not productive and thus, in the long run, will lead away from happiness. Many here can attest to that.

But there's the other side of pool that I like, too. It is the side of honest competition, healthy environment, good food, players with a life outside of pool (i.e., they have earned money to spend, not gamble), good looking women, business conversations and appointments, etc. etc...all the stuff golf lays claim to.

I don't think this is a "either/or" choice here. Why can't we have both? I guess we do, but the good side is more hidden than the "bad" and that is the public's preception. If people want cueing arts, let's give it to 'em.

I do what I can in my small world to improve pool's image. I attempt to look halfway nice when I go play. I don't engage in fights or arguments over something stupid. I respect others. I encourage newbies to learn and grow and not give up. I also teach others what little I know so they can begin to enjoy the personal growth aspects of pool.

Example: I just convinced a customer of mine who told me he plays in a small pool league, to join the BCA league next year. He told me last night that he already has 3 people ready to play this fall. That is a step up, imho, of his perception of the quality of pool.

If you read golf books and listen to old pros talk about golf, it is made to be the greatest analogy ever in the history of man's attemtps to build great wealth and riches. I sometimes laugh, but that is the perception amongst the public. Pool holds the same power, as it requries the same thoughtful work inside of the player. This work can also result in applying similar strategies in life as on the flat plane. The public's preception would be better if this was wider known.

For that STUPID social worker that ripped one of our beloved posters kid's loves from his life: FUG 'EM! Just more indication that this beautiful game is misunderstood by "educated" idiots. And we're forced to pay for it! :mad:

Jeff Livingston
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As I said earlier, there are two sides to this as this transition we go through progresses. For the better...well that is a matter of true personal preference. Each of us well and wonderful, yes wonderful as it is from each, is one for the books of current time. Thank God for each one of these posts, mere negative and positve say very little to each, as each one is a true reflection of God's will to progress, enjoy and grow within ourselves and each other.

I think the post quoted here above is one of superb thought for the time here.

And for the post just after this the same. It actually brought back a marvelous memory of a night in Hilton Head. My girlfriend at the time I lived in Hilton Head worked at the Sea Pines tennis pro shop and we were invited to a dinner invitation with Jimmy Connors upstairs in Harbor Town. Well, when I arrived there was focal point that was perfect in my eyes. Jimmy Conners playing against a few of the guests in a room that was...well, class at its height. Everyone as you can imagine, dressed up to the T, a dinner spread to remember, wines that idulge the senses, and a view of the harbor to die for. Jimmy Connors adn I played partners for over 4 hours with everyone trying their best to take the table. it was surly a night ot remember forever.

This game surley seals in memories and those memories are the strenght and importance of all this. Do as each say it is!

Each is fine! Accept as it is, fine too! When something is this good why change it...right! Why take the chance? Why take the risk?

Maybe all valid points. Yes they are! Each viewpoint is valuable. "Billiards", "Pool", "Cueing", "Shooting stick" whatever..in the end, a name only reflects an image of personal memory.
 
AOyster said:
Jimmy Conners playing against a few of the guests in a room that was...well, class at its height.
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Was he playing the racqueting arts? Had he been, do you think it would have made the experience any more or less positive?

Good Rolls,
Rasta
 
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And the downside is that the general public won't change it's apparent negative image of pool playing and pool players in general...Damn the bad luck.
"My pool player can beat the crap out of your cueing artist".
 
Pool is pool, simple as that. I don't think you could ever change the name of the game. Now, if you want to change the public's perception of the game I think the best way to do it would be to show them what really goes on in "Pool halls." The one I play at calls itself a "Sports bar & grill" but when there are 20 tables inside you know what everyone else calls it!

My point is, at every tournament I play there all you will see are people playing the game very well & with much respect for each other. I have never seen anyone badmouthing another player or complaining about a game. Perhaps I'm just lucky to play at a good venue but I've seen this in other places too. People enjoy themselves when they're playing pool, in competition or just with friends on a night out.

If you could show that image to the non playing public I think that would go a long way to improving the image of pool.

Cue Artist just sounds too close to Piss Artist for my liking!:D
 
chilli66 said:
Cue Artist just sounds too close to Piss Artist for my liking!:D
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When I really have to go, I can write my full name and finish it with a flower........:cool:

McCue Banger McCue
 
cheesemouse said:
Jeff, do yourself a favor and go to Oysters profile. Check all the posts he has started. He is not promoting the game, he is promoting himself.
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Thanks for the advice, cheesemouse. I did check out his profile and website.

Personally, I don't care if he's promoting himself. He is a (the?) rep for his company and to attract customers, he's saying who he is and that he wants people who think like him as customers. At least that's my take on his marketing style. A smart businessman doesn't try to sell to everyone; just to those who meet some/most of the criteria of his ideal customer. I see him in this category, but I could be wrong. Time will tell.

It's like being sharked: I can take the good with the bad. I can think whatever I want (that's my only true freedom) about someone's sharking behavior, and therefore react as I want to it, all the while getting as much value as I can along the way. The same goes for everyone's posts here on AZ. I take what is valuable, contemplate the new info and decide on that, and/or just let it go.

Integration is what's missing here, imho. It isn't necessary to choose between two ways or two posters, or to "balance" two ways. It is entirely possible to integrate (put together without contradiction) many different pool worlds, all to the benefit of each one and to each player...all the while improving the public's image of pool which hopefully brings in more good players, more venues, and more money!

Go get 'em Oyster,

Jeff Livingston
 
Cueing Arts seems to fit trick shots.
Where I am, if I say I play pool, people think of swimming so here its called 'table ball'

Still it might be 'big animal with horns excrement' :cool:

Anyway the simple slogan "pool is cool" lasts forever...
 
AOyster said:
The Image of “pool”

As many of you know I do not frequent forums on the Internet very often. Way too busy to sit still that long but I think this point needs attention.

The image of “Pool”? When you hear the word “pool”, what do you think of? What scene do you immediately have in your mind? Yes I know, this could be the wrong place to get the average answer but I think it is a very important question and one that as we continue to see needs updating/changing.

I travel quite a bit and mostly on planes. The most common/difficult question I receive when traveling is “what do you do? I have learned over time not to answer this one too quickly. Unfortunately, I have learned to “feel out” the person asking and learn a bit more about them. My first response is usually “I teach a sports psychology kinematics course” This always gets their attention, which always begs for an elaboration.

The conversation frequently continues with my adding “The course is based on the Cueing Arts” The eyebrows raised and the seat returns to its upright position. I expand and the conversation carries forward at over 500 mph. This next step is the hardest. Explaining the Cueing Arts. Yes, the word “pool” is held back as long as possible and sometimes it is the only word to clarify. “pool” Even the simple act of demonstrating the air stroke and bridge isn’t enough.

We all agree that this word immediately creates an image that is unfortunately for the most part “negative”. By this I sincerely mean the image of pool to most, (players and non-players alike) is that of smoking, gambling, drugs, fighting, bars, drinking, etc. Just one word says all this. Even the word “pool” is built around gambling. Bar players pooling their money.

As for the end of the conversations with my new altitude friends, the story quite frequently ends with a smile and the sounds of “do you have a card?” just after the “welcome to ______airport”.

One flight I remember actually giving a short lesson on the flight in the aisle when the first class flight attendant announced who was is seat 2A. This one I will never forget, not because of the scene, because my mailbox was full of messages from the flight that evening and not one message with the word “pool”. This was all made possible by my introducing myself as a Cueing Arts professional instructor.

Why then is the nature and status of the “IP(pool)T” in doubt? I would have to suggest that the name has a lot to do with it. Anyone agree? Getting a national network to air “pool” most likely will never happen and we all know this is the solution to the ultimate growth of professional billiards.

I have experienced conversations go from “hello” (smile) to “pool” (frown) in a matter of seconds and scenarios above that lead to great students. I don’t feel that this game/art we all love should continue with this negative image of the past. It is time for a change.
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The "image" of pool is this. Because of the revenue in the states needed to support the square footage of a pool room "ALCOHOL" is one of the most important aspects making the bottom line work. I know there are successful operations that overcome this, but most often this is not the case.
Alcohol keeps youth out of the picture (legally or otherwise) plus allot of states still allow cigarette smoking on premises. With alcohol you have allot of dysfunction and all that goes along with it. This dynamic works against "image of pool" and increasing its player numbers.
Can you think of any pro pool player that is grooming their offspring for the sport? The enviornment speaks for itself. Back in the earlier days when Buddy Hall and the rest were creating their game most all rooms didn't have alcohol. Players of this caliber would frequent bars and clubs with coin-op tables and sometimes make huge scores, allot of the times the money won was funny money.
 
Island Drive said:
Alcohol keeps youth out of the picture (legally or otherwise) plus allot of states still allow cigarette smoking on premises. With alcohol you have allot of dysfunction and all that goes along with it. This dynamic works against "image of pool" and increasing its player numbers.
Can you think of any pro pool player that is grooming their offspring for the sport? The enviornment speaks for itself. Back in the earlier days when Buddy Hall and the rest were creating their game most all rooms didn't have alcohol. Players of this caliber would frequent bars and clubs with coin-op tables and sometimes make huge scores, allot of the times the money won was funny money.
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You know, I'm not sure when all of this started, or who started it. "When I was a kid..." (the late 60's) the local bowling alley had a pool room and a bar that served alcoholic beverages, and I remember seeing people of all ages in there. Was this an ABC crackdown, or was it due to local ordinances? Family Billiards in SF has a beer/wine license, and the city has strict rules about when minors may be in the building. It seems like a wide swing has occurred, and not for the better.

Ken
 
What if...When?

Island Drive said:
The "image" of pool is this. Because of the revenue in the states needed to support the square footage of a pool room "ALCOHOL" is one of the most important aspects making the bottom line work. I know there are successful operations that overcome this, but most often this is not the case.
Alcohol keeps youth out of the picture (legally or otherwise) plus allot of states still allow cigarette smoking on premises. With alcohol you have allot of dysfunction and all that goes along with it. This dynamic works against "image of pool" and increasing its player numbers.
Can you think of any pro pool player that is grooming their offspring for the sport? The enviornment speaks for itself. Back in the earlier days when Buddy Hall and the rest were creating their game most all rooms didn't have alcohol. Players of this caliber would frequent bars and clubs with coin-op tables and sometimes make huge scores, allot of the times the money won was funny money.
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Eventually and hopefully sooner than later, smoking will be illegal in all public places in all 50 states. What challenge next? What if there was no smoking and no drinking (alcohol) in any "billiard (pool) room"? How many would still play and if so what would be the correct image of this activity as it progressed? Would the image of "pool" simply change over time or would the game need a new name to represent this new activity? It might be quite a while before this ever happens with the alcohol, but just imagine. Would the game slowly disappear or would it take on a new arena? An image represents a feeling of a picture. If the picture changed would the feeling automatically change with it?
 
AOyster said:
Eventually and hopefully sooner than later, smoking will be illegal in all public places in all 50 states. (snip)
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OK, NOW I've had it.:mad:

Oyster responds to a wonderful post that highlights the problems that pool rooms now have because govts have used force (zoning) to control businesses rather than allow the people to be free to choose for themselves. Oyster's reply?: MORE FORCE!

Just how in the fug does using more force clean up pool's image?

What ever happened to persuasion out of respect for others (golden rule)? Is it a lost art?

Sad and sickened by the unending calls for more violence against ourselves,:eek:

Jeff Livingston
 
AOyster said:
Eventually and hopefully sooner than later, smoking will be illegal in all public places in all 50 states. What challenge next? What if there was no smoking and no drinking (alcohol) in any "billiard (pool) room"? How many would still play and if so what would be the correct image of this activity as it progressed? Would the image of "pool" simply change over time or would the game need a new name to represent this new activity? It might be quite a while before this ever happens with the alcohol, but just imagine. Would the game slowly disappear or would it take on a new arena? An image represents a feeling of a picture. If the picture changed would the feeling automatically change with it?
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If high schools start having billiard areas for teaching and the colleges don't deplete the great rooms they once had, and then a platform here in the US to take it to the pro level is available, then & only then will it become recognized, accepted and something for youth to reach for. I look at Gabe Owen 'as example' and when he won the US Open it actually saddened me, why? Because I saw it as "where do we go from here"? I'm not being synical, having been through that scenario myself I realize where this course has taken many great players.
 
Yes

Island Drive said:
If high schools start having billiard areas for teaching and the colleges don't deplete the great rooms they once had, and then a platform here in the US to take it to the pro level is available, then & only then will it become recognized, accepted and something for youth to reach for. I look at Gabe Owen 'as example' and when he won the US Open it actually saddened me, why? Because I saw it as "where do we go from here"? I'm not being synical, having been through that scenario myself I realize where this course has taken many great players.
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High Schools or even before that, would be a perfect place for the sport to relect a more positive image. Billiards "The Cueing Arts" whichever you prefer, when taught as an "art" can certainly open the positive realm of human possibilities. Learning should be fun and when it is we have attention in our youth. Many of the problems of today's children are from teachers. We don't need all the "A.D.D." diagnosis and drugs. Creative ways of teaching with a true passion will surely capture the attention. There are so many positive things in life we can apply to the "cueing arts". I think reflecting the positive side of billiards as the cueing arts would be more acceptable as a class in our schools than "pool".

In fact one of the highest rated schools in Florida is a short rollerblade stroll from my house. It is brand new. One of the teachers there recently won an award for the "teacher of the year" in Florida, she is now up for the national award.

The school is beautiful and modern with huge reflecting names on the outside of each such as "Nutrition Center" for yes you guessed it...Cafeteria, "Knowledge Center" for yes... the library, "Performing Arts Center" for ....yes, you are correct and others and so on. None of the names we all remember from high school are present, but as we know they are still the same (or are they). Are they just different names to reflect a different image. All to the good as reflected in the states top schools. A positive reflection...yes!

Imagine the continuation of this schools centers as next..."The Cueing Arts Center". "pool hall center" just doesn't fit nor would it fly.

The Cueing Arts relects that of precision human movement, imagination, anaylsis of situations, individual creativity, kinesiology, kinematics (study of the motion of objects), physics, etc. Learning the why's and how's within life as it relates to billiards. Analogies of real life reflected in a clear positive way!

"pool" just doesn't refelect these things.
 
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Donovan said:
AOyster,

Your signature has "president" in it. What are you president of? :confused:
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Cueing Arts.. what else? :)

Actually my company "Academy of the Cueing Arts" is a corporation and I am listed as President.
 
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