In a dispute -- APA or BCA?

[Peer]

I know this is silly -- but last night I was playing 8-ball with guy who agreed to play "league rules" (oppose to "bar rules" I guess). Anyways, I make a high-ball on the break but instead opt for the low balls. But as soon as I start shooting, he goes nuts (in a friendly way, I may add). Obviously I play according to BCA rules, while he's in the APA camp.

Since I'm a bastard to pick a fight with, I sure won that argument -- although I lost the game, (which is okay since he seemed like a good guy anyways).

But I was thinking afterwards, in a dispute like this, what would be the overriding authority -- BCA or APA..?

-- peer

 

[StormHotRod300]

MMMM generally I would try and throw people for a loop and say BCA, to see if they know what i am talking about.

But if they were to say lets play APA rules, i wouldnt have a problem. I've played tournaments using both rules and I personally like BCA rules better.

The only reason I'd choose BCA rules is because its more geared towards the better shooters.

 

[Da Poet]

But I was thinking afterwards, in a dispute like this, what would be the overriding authority -- BCA or APA..?

-- peer

There is no overiding authority. League rules are best for leagues and BCA rules are best for tournaments.

Bar rules are usually decided by the bar or whoever wins the table.

I'm open for input here if anyone disagrees.

 

[StormHotRod300]

But isnt for the most part Bar rules close to BCA rules except for a few things?

 

[Da Poet]

But isnt for the most part Bar rules close to BCA rules except for a few things?

Yeah, but those few things are not universally settled are they.

There should be a bar rule book. Then I can take a few copies and drop them off for a free beer?

 

[Mr. Wilson]

I much prefer BCA, however in this area, BCA makes no presence.

APA has a lot of players and following in the Baltimore area, so I can see why they would lean that way.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I've been in a few bars in my day

The first thing I do BEFORE the break when playing a stranger is ask them two important questions: 1) Open after the break? and 2) Ball in hand on all fouls?

These two simple questions could save your life---REALLY!

"BCA" or "APA" means "BFD" to a lot of the bar patrons who spend their evenings getting fitshased and plugging quarters in a barbox

Besides, yah sound like a pool nerd when you say, "Say fellows, shall we play using BCA or APA rules. Mom says BCA rules are better!"

I'd own your home by the end of the night if you introduced yourself to me in that manner

Good luck to you!

Rick P.

P.S.- I'm dead serious about the "could save your life" advice...

 

[Cardinal_Syn]

that's the problem with eight ball...there's too many rules. which is why when i play someone i make sure we're on the same boat before we start playing.

 

[Da Poet]

Besides, yah sound like a pool nerd when you say, "Say fellows, shall we play using BCA or APA rules. Mom says BCA rules are better!"

Careful!

 

[Flex]

APA rules don't allow jump cues, or masse shots. They needlessly limit your possibilities, and just about anybody who can play a smidgen can jump balls with a jump cue. Masse shots that are basically curve ball shots are basic shots that take only a little while to learn, at least at a basic level. I don't mind the slop shots in APA, but think the call-the-ball-in-the-pocket BCA rule to be superior.

To each his own.

 

[Gregg]

How about simply deciding on the rules before hand?

As in; "Hey, we'll play APA, BCA, or TAP rules?"

Wouldn't that makes sense, or is that too obvious?

 

[ironman]

I know this is silly -- but last night I was playing 8-ball with guy who agreed to play "league rules" (oppose to "bar rules" I guess). Anyways, I make a high-ball on the break but instead opt for the low balls. But as soon as I start shooting, he goes nuts (in a friendly way, I may add). Obviously I play according to BCA rules, while he's in the APA camp.

Since I'm a bastard to pick a fight with, I sure won that argument -- although I lost the game, (which is okay since he seemed like a good guy anyways).

But I was thinking afterwards, in a dispute like this, what would be the overriding authority -- BCA or APA..?

-- peer

Boys Club of America!!!

 

[Snapshot9]

Never met

anyone that wanted to play by APA rules .... ever! Anyone that goes to Vegas or has been, knows the stiffest competition is in the BCA, with Valley 2nd, and APA last.

This exists because of the handicapping systems used: BCA is the most exact and less sandbagging goes on (75 with 5 man teams), Valley is next (used to be 13 with 4 man teams), and APA is last with 9, I believe now.

The more handicapping levels in a league, the more precise it is for skill level, and less sandbagging goes on.

I.E., 1 level in APA = 8 levels in BCA (75/9 = 8.375)

 

[Maniac]

APA rules don't allow jump cues, or masse shots.

Actually, the masse shot is legal if the bar or hall you are shooting in does not have a rule prohibiting them. At least in the league I shoot in this is so. It could be in our league's by-laws and COULD differ from area to area. On the other hand, in the Official APA 8-Ball & 9-Ball Game Rules Booklet for the years 2005/2006 there isn't any mention at all of the masse shot, be it for or against it.

Maniac

P.S. I like the B.C.A. rules better!!!

 

[DaveK]

As I walk into my favorite pool hall there is a sign with the 'rules'. Some include "no swearing" , "no jumping" , "no masse shots" , and "no gambling". I've seen all of these rules broken in a single game, and more than once I might add .... thankfully I've never seen anyone break the "no spitting" rule !

Most players that you would meet in a bar around here would have great difficulty spelling BCA, VNEA, TAP, or APA, let alone know these rule sets and be able to distinguish between them.

Dave

 

[MrLucky]

Well ...

I know this is silly -- but last night I was playing 8-ball with guy who agreed to play "league rules" (oppose to "bar rules" I guess). Anyways, I make a high-ball on the break but instead opt for the low balls. But as soon as I start shooting, he goes nuts (in a friendly way, I may add). Obviously I play according to BCA rules, while he's in the APA camp.

Since I'm a bastard to pick a fight with, I sure won that argument -- although I lost the game, (which is okay since he seemed like a good guy anyways).

But I was thinking afterwards, in a dispute like this, what would be the overriding authority -- BCA or APA..?

-- peer

BCA has been around longer! but APA has far more players and so would in my opinion be more well known as far as its rules are concerned and frankly I have been playing pool since the 50's (LOL! I started learning at 9!) and some of the BCA 8 Ball rules kind of throw me! such as 8 on the break is not a win???? What is that about?

 

[jimmy-leggs]

anyone that wanted to play by APA rules .... ever! Anyone that goes to Vegas or has been, knows the stiffest competition is in the BCA, with Valley 2nd, and APA last.

This exists because of the handicapping systems used: BCA is the most exact and less sandbagging goes on (75 with 5 man teams), Valley is next (used to be 13 with 4 man teams), and APA is last with 9, I believe now.

The more handicapping levels in a league, the more precise it is for skill level, and less sandbagging goes on.

I.E., 1 level in APA = 8 levels in BCA (75/9 = 8.375)

i agree with you 100%,the least of sandbagging is in b.c.a........... and BAR RULES SUCK.where im from,if someone says we will play bar rules they dont know the game that well.

 

[Handsumm]

For players who actually know the game, they call it "bar rules." At least I do, because people in bars usually don't know the rules. If I ask what type of rules these greenhorns are playing, they will say let's play "straight 8." WTF is that? Straight pool to 8 points?

I hate it when people start talking bad about BCA or tournament rules. Pople will say "Ball in hand is stupid" or " why would you ever play a safety?"

I have gotten into fights before for playing "chicken S**** Pool" just because I could play and they couldn't. Let's see, your in a tournament with no shot whatsoever, and they want you to go for an impossible shot and "play a gentleman's game." Yeah right, be a gentleman and LEARN THE GAME. DAMN ol' schoolers.
I HATE APA and will never play again. Not only do the players sandbag like nobody's business, the rules suck a**! No jump cues, anything goes you still shoot, etc. It was definitely designed to bring in newcomers to the game. I think nobody with a decent amount of skill should play APA. It should be called ABPA or American Beginning Poolplayers Association.

 

[jimmy-leggs]

It should be called ABPA or American Beginning Poolplayers Association.

lol i agree

 

[FLICKit]

I've played in BCA and BCA type leagues and none of them used any rating system. Not saying that there aren't any BCA ratings systems, because it appears there are. Evidently, it just isn't very standardized. Some do and some don't. The problem with no rating system is that in most cases it's easy to tell who the stronger players are, and thus who the stronger teams are, and therefore it's almost predetermined who's gonna finish in the top positions.

The APA format is designed for league play and thus favors a better fairness aspect. It gives virtually every player, and thus virtually every team at least a chance of winning. The design of the league is to narrow the gap between the chance of a stronger player winning vs weaker player.

So, when an APA 6 plays a 3. Or an 8 in BCA type vs a 6. (Numbers arbitrarily chosen).

When the players play straight up even race, clearly the advantage always favors the higher player. If you were gambling if you had half a brain, you wouldn't bet for the lower player, there'd be no point. You'd have to give some odds, in order balance the scales at least somewhat.

Whereas with the APA rules and race format, the advantage is still to the stronger player, but the other player would actually have a reasonable chance of winning. If either player misses a bit more than normal, then they usually won't win.

Usually in gambling situations, the dominant player has no desire to give up any advantages, so the BCA rules format will almost assuredly prevail in that situation. The stronger player wants a pre-determined outcome, and wants to be rewarded.

Sometimes the stronger player will have to give up weight, just to get the opponent to play. For example, wild 8 in 9-ball, or games on the wire. Obviously, in any such weighting scenarios, some will cheat or sandbag or manipulate the odds in order to try to skew the results. So you always have to utilize methods to protect against such behavior. Often times it's something as simple as just spread the word...

And, to anyone with any level of skills, bar rules are just ridiculous and subject to many disputes, especially in gambling situations.