Info about starting up

M

mcglbilliards

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I would like your opinion, thoughts, or what ever.

We are talking about opening up a family friendly billiards in Lawton, ok. We are not wanting to serve alcohol. There is only one other pool hall in Lawton, it is a bar. Here is what we are thinking about doing:

Members only ($5 annual membership per family) to control who comes in
Teens can come in and play without parents under their membership
Pay by the hour 9' tables.
Coin operated arcade games and dart boards.
We will also have lessons when we find someone that wants to do it.
We will have a concession stand
We will also sell t-shirts, pool and dart accessories
We will have special nights like:
Karaoke night
local talent nights
comedy nights
leagues
tournaments
We also have room to have birthday parties.

We have found a 4000 sqft building for $2000/month. It is located on a busy intersection in a shopping mall.
 
Would it also be non-smoking? I live about 2 hours from there, but I would make the trek occassionally if it was non-smoking. That is the one thing I have not missed, coming out of the pool hall smelling like an ashtray.

Are there many serious pool players in/around Lawton?

Good Luck if you decide to go for it!
 
Yes, It would be no smoking. I have put this info out on a few things and I have recieved some good feed back. Im not sure about a lot of serious pool players, there is a pizza place that has a couple of tables, they have people playing them a lot. Im hopping to bring in the younger military and teens. Im thinking that will be my biggest crowd.
 
DoubleD said:
4000 square feet for $2000 per month?

Why not just go all private club and get 30 people in for a $500-1000 share and $125 per month?

I would do that in a heartbeat.

dld
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The people in this town would not pay that. We live in a military town. But I will keep that in mind. Thank you.
 
DoubleD said:
Teens and young military aren't worth having as a main customer base. They will keep the people with actual money away and will destroy everything onsite.

Have you ever seen a group of 17y/o football players and a group of 19y/o GI's in the same place and not get into fights?

A place in my hometown tried this (and we didn't even have the military aspect) when I was in HS. The cops were there about twice every night of the few short months they were open.

dld
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Thats why I want to do the mambership. My dad had one in Arkansas a few years ago. This is how he did it. He never had a problem. The parents have to have a membership and the kids will b under their membership. If they cause a problem the membership will be cancled and they will pay for any damages. I will have a contract that they have to sign.
 
Sounds pretty good. I'd suggest reading the chapter in Bob Byrne's Wonderful World of Pool and Billiards entitled My Dream Room. Some good suggestions there. I'd suggest raising the annual fee to $20-25 a year, though.
 
MORE market research needed!

- find out what the natives want instead of deciding for them.

- Find out what your local pool bar is NOT doing

- How many dedicated pool players exist - by this I mean how many players will turn up for regular mid-week comps

GOOD LUCK, wee need more pool halls :thumbup:
 
Perhaps it is because I'm Canadian, but I can't really see a poolhall succeeding without alcohol sales.


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Ghosst said:
Perhaps it is because I'm Canadian, but I can't really see a poolhall succeeding without alcohol sales.


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The rooms in New York State did it for many, many years and though they now serve alcoholic beverages they now get by without smoking.
 
Ghosst said:
Perhaps it is because I'm Canadian, but I can't really see a poolhall succeeding without alcohol sales.


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I'm not Canadian, but I agree wholeheartedly ... Trying to draw in teens as a part of your major base is a baaaaad idea also. I cannot stress that enough!
 
Rain-Man said:
I'm not Canadian, but I agree wholeheartedly ... Trying to draw in teens as a part of your major base is a baaaaad idea also. I cannot stress that enough!
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I want to draw in families not just teens. There is no where families with older kids can go to have fun here. We have a place like chuckecheese and the movies. This town is full of places you can go to drink, smoke and play on the small pool tables.
 
The club can work

mcglbilliards said:
I want to draw in families not just teens. There is no where families with older kids can go to have fun here. We have a place like chuckecheese and the movies. This town is full of places you can go to drink, smoke and play on the small pool tables.
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when you have developed the business model customized for your area and demographics.

As a club, you will be able to offer better services to the clientele who are members.

Remember, Road Playing Pro's and Gamblers take revenue from you and your patrons as a club. The only time a Pro can bring revenue is through instruction, clinics and entertainment. A Traveling Professional Instructor will also bring revenue, along with teaching your House Pro methods of instruction.

As a club, you control the environment within the facility and build your Identity accordingly. Alcohol Free and Smoke Free are advantages in today's market. Promotion of pool as a healthy activity isn't far fetched. Remember that in your food menu development. Controlling the environment means you have the authority to remove anyone who violates the rules set forth in the membership agreement.

As a club, you have an opportunity to develop in house teams for competition. Part of the promotion process for membership is perhaps a team color polo when they join, esp. if families play together. Competition isn't at the forefront like normal league play, but socialization with other families. Family Williams versus Family Johnson,who cares if they are all ball bangers in the first couple of years. The 9 ft. tables are an excellent choice also.

I firmly believe this idea will work, but you cannot approach this with the frame of mind,"I like pool, and I want to open a recreation center with pool tables.". It is a long and detailed planning process with many pitfalls.

Good Luck.
 
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Ghosst said:
Perhaps it is because I'm Canadian, but I can't really see a poolhall succeeding without alcohol sales.


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Every place in MA that I know of without a bar closed soon after the smoking indoor ban went into effect, and one in RI closed several years ago after losing about 75% of their customers in the same time period.

Mr Billiards, Gee Cues, Brighton Billiards, and a few others. The only places I see doing well rely on bar and food sales (Snookers in RI, The Billiards Cafe in Ayer) that is also fed by good league and tournament turnouts.
 
Good luck

First off, let me say good luck with whatever you choose to do. I do not mean to sound negative with my opinions/advice...

I/We do not know your local demographics, and you may have a great idea here. But your thread asked for advice/opinions and as a person who has started, owned, operated, turned around, and sold at profit (I know, "profit" is a bad word anymore) many businesses over the last 20 years (Im 39), I cannot see how this business model can possible succeed. Pool halls are a dying business anymore, unless you have some sort of other source of steady revenue coming in to fund it. If you have a smoking ban in your area/state your fighting a losing battle even more (I personally do not smoke, and cant stand the smell of it). Alcohol sales/profits are the easiest thing to supplement revenue needed to keep your pool hall dream alive..
Now, my opinions are based upon the idea that you are actually trying to turn a monthly profit? If you are independently well off financially and just want to do something socially nice for your area, thats different. You could maybe, possibly be able to break even every month, but more likely than not your going to have to personally come out of pocket to keep it afloat each month...

Good luck, and keep us posted o whatever you end up doing..:thumbup:
 
Best of luck. It sounds like your focus is on the non-pool fun stuff (lots of noisy distractions etc).
So you're not really looking to attract serious players.

In that case, unless you have a moral objection, you probably will do better financially
to just open up another bar-with-pool-tables.

Also, sounds like the main point of the membership is to get people to sign a contract that says
"if you're disruptive I can kick you out and bar you".
Ok. Can't you just kick them out anyway? I think that's your legal right no matter what.

And the money you make from the $5 membership is basically nothing, but imagine the money
you lose if some newcomer wanders in off the street to check it out, and you say "sorry sir,
you can't come in without paying $5 and filling out some paperwork". A single customer
alienated this way could end up costing you as much as you'd earn from all your paid memberships.

I think Bella said it best: research what people want.
There may be a bunch of frustrated players who want to play serious pool but hate
the other place because it lacks good equipment. In that case, maybe you spend
an extra 5k on good cloth, rails, racks and lights instead of on karaoke and arcade machines.

Maybe there are a bunch of under-21 kids who are frustrated that they can't hang out at the bar,
in which case you'd probably focus on just the opposite.

Maybe there are a bunchy of midlevel league players who want good equipment but also want beer.
 
A friend of mine runs a room that is smoke and alcohol free in Crossville TN....
They have a full menu and they are priced affordably....

I am amazed at the number of teens he has on a given night... They do get a little rowdy from time to time but all it takes is a word from one of the owners and they snap back in line.....

It's actually nice to see.. The new crop of players have to come from somewhere so maybe it will be from smaller towns where entertainment options are limited and there isn't so much to compete with....

The towns I grew up in were small but they all supported a few pool rooms without food or alcohol... Too bad rent has went thru the roof most places...

for $2000 a month I think you will be fine... Just don't expect to be making much more than a living... You will more or less be starting a job for yourself... If you have the pool bug I know it may be the perfect job....

Chris
 
For drop-in/non-regulars, charge one table rate. Put up posters all over about the personal paid membership table rate.

Do a local survey to see if family memberships are a worthwhile program.

Offer a small group of coin-op bar boxes.

Contact the BEF for help in youth programs.
Talk with the local school to add billiards as a PE activity.

Find an instructor who can come by once or twice a month and offer free lessons in exchange for free table time.

Find a Tournament Director who can set up and operate a couple weekly and monthly tournaments (make sure to train up an assistant, maybe 2).

Avoid food cooking that requires a venting hood.

Do offer an outside BBQ area for weekends where you can do ribs, chicken, etc. Make sure there are windbreaks, so that you can use those standalone space heaters when needed.

Bring in trick shot artists a couple times a year.

Do advertising on the radio and TV (even late night spots get results). See if the local paper will include a weekly Billiard News section with tournament results.
 
Local talent night, comedy night, karaoke, it sounds like a bar without the alcohol. Just have a bar if they dont want to drink they wont. I think a pro shop,cue repair,pool tournaments, have TVs playing pool matches. Focus on pool not the non pool stuff. Good equipment. And play pool dont sit back an act like big shot get out there an get people playing. I see it all the time they look at me like im crazy for going to pool hall to play pool. Good luck. I say do it the way you wish pool halls should be. Never make anyone else happy. Make it ur dream place. Good luck.
 
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