information about Joss CC cues (are they custom)?

justinb386...Remember that Lucasi and Players brand name cues are produced in a chinese factory specifically for Cue & Case. So naturally they (C & C) would have tons of those cues, and much smaller numbers of the other brand name cues from different manufacturers.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Okay, so the cue probably is not anything special (considering that it was made for cue & case). I do see that the Joss cues that cue & case has are very high priced, so they must not have ordered nearly as many as Lucasi or Players. I am sure that Joss cues are much more limited than most other production cues.
 
Maybe I should create a new thread for this question that I am curious about. Are Joss cues the most limited (other than Schon) production cues being made, or are there any other cue company's that make fewer cues than Joss per year (other than Schon)? I am just very curious about this. I am sure that Meucci cues are probably more mass produced, but what about other cue company's (like McDermott, Adams/Helmstetter, and maybe Falcon for example)? I know that I should probably create a new thread for this question. If anyone knows of a link to another person that has asked a similar question, than I would really like to read about it.
 
Schon makes fewer than JOSS. Probably Jacoby and Pechauer do as well. There are other makers of this "type" but I sort of cluster those three names together as a genre. They make "catalog" cues as well as customs.

It sort of gets into the argument about who is and who isn't a mass producer or custom maker. JOSS does "mass produce" cues, but at a pretty darned high quality. They are also, and have always been, a custom maker IMHO.

JOSS has made cues with the Biagio name on them, the Brunswick name on them, the Longoni name on them, and more. They have made cue lines for various different brands over the years.

Meucci, Viking, McDermott all make far more cues than JOSS.

The last production totals that I have for JOSS are from the late nineties. Maybe somebody else has something more current.
 
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Yeah, I knew that Schon is the highest end production cue maker, and probably has the fewest amount of employees working at their shop. I read that Viking cues may have gone out of business (very sad). Most of the other production cues (like McDermott) have have Asian made lines of their cues. It is nice that Joss is not going that direction with their cue company.
 
Yeah, I knew that Schon is the highest end production cue maker, and probably has the fewest amount of employees working at their shop. I read that Viking cues may have gone out of business (very sad). Most of the other production cues (like McDermott) have have Asian made lines of their cues. It is nice that Joss is not going that direction with their cue company.


Viking is back in business. They were bought by an attorney after being closed for a while. As far as I know they hired back a number of original staff. You can find many new Vikings on the market including on Ebay. Some of their new line looks quite nice. I do not know what the quality control is like since they opened up again. I am waiting on reviews of their new cues.

Viking also now has a strategy for an import line as stated by the new owner in an interview. I think their import line is the Valhalla cues, but I could be wrong.

I don't actually know that fewer people work at Schon than JOSS. JOSS actually isn't a very large shop. They employed automation for such things as cutting shafts etc some years ago (I believe). AFAIK they had/have large machines that cut tens of shafts at a time which saves manual labor at the lathes. Probably the final operations are still done by individuals at the lathes but you can imagine if you have a machine that can turn thirty shafts or butts down how much employee time that might save without compromising the final product if the final operations still have human hands on them. This is what I have put together from reading various different sources on the matter including interviews with Janes among other things. I don't know how accurate it is, it is what I surmise from my extensive reading on anything I could find on the matter.

Personally I don't see Schon as the "highest end" production maker, just the most expensive. The two are not the same in my book. I don't actually see them as any "higher" than JOSS and in some ways lower actually.

You can still get sharp point cues from JOSS while Schon couldn't even be compelled to do it for their recent small run of Balabushka "tribute" cues. They had CNC inlaid points.

Dan Janes is a Hall of Fame cue maker and a pioneer in the industry. He moved to CNC early, began coring of all his cues early, made dedicated jump and break cues as early as the mid 1980's if not earlier, made laminated shafts years ago and since moved away from it. He was making cues for ten years before Schon ever even started. I remember the early Schon cues. Very JOSS-like in my opinion. They are absolutely excellent cues but I have always seen them as JOSS wannabe cues. In the end they out-performed JOSS in pricing, but I don't believe they have ever out-performed JOSS as a cue. Yes, I know, they have a very loyal following and a lot of people like them and how they play. These are just my own opinions and admittedly are biased by my own long term relationship with my own JOSS.

JOSS continues to lead and innovate but not with loud flashy marketing, not with unrealistic claims of crushing victories or technology that will win pool games instead of a player's skill. They move steadily forward in dignified fashion.


One can absolutely spend more for a player than the asking price for a JOSS...but the question one must ask is "why?". Not that they can't be out-done by "customs" built to the discriminating and capable player's specifications...but when/if one reaches that level JOSS can and will build that for you too.


If you have money to burn or invest in art work, that's a different story. If you are just hooked on cues like a lot of us are, that's another story. I can't argue with somebody that owns, shoots with, or wants, a Scruggs/Gina/Szam/Hececk/etc. Heck, I desperately want a Mottey myself. But if one wants a killer player for smallish money, it's hard to beat a JOSS. In fact I say you really can't. Just wait and watch and you can find a JOSS in nice shape for $100-$150...just be ready to pounce because it will sell right away. I have four JOSS cues....and I paid $35 for the best one (seventies cue), $90 for my JOSS jumper brand new in about 1992, and $65 and $95 for the other two (the one for $95 came with a case and a Dufferin).

High end production cue? I say JOSS beats the rest. But then, I am biased and still stuck in a time when Varner and Sigel were beating everybody and their mother with JOSS cues.

Just look at JoseV's cue again......


.


.
 
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Viking is back in business. They were bought by an attorney after being closed for a while. As far as I know they hired back a number of original staff. You can find many new Vikings on the market including on Ebay. Some of their new line looks quite nice. I do not know what the quality control is like since they opened up again. I am waiting on reviews of their new cues.

Viking also now has a strategy for an import line as stated by the new owner in an interview. I think their import line is the Valhalla cues, but I could be wrong.

I don't actually know that fewer people work at Schon than JOSS. JOSS actually isn't a very large shop. They employed automation for such things as cutting shafts etc some years ago (I believe). AFAIK they had/have large machines that cut tens of shafts at a time which saves manual labor at the lathes. Probably the final operations are still done by individuals at the lathes but you can imagine if you have a machine that can turn thirty shafts or butts down how much employee time that might save without compromising the final product if the final operations still have human hands on them. This is what I have put together from reading various different sources on the matter including interviews with Janes among other things. I don't know how accurate it is, it is what I surmise from my extensive reading on anything I could find on the matter.

Personally I don't see Schon as the "highest end" production maker, just the most expensive. The two are not the same in my book. I don't actually see them as any "higher" than JOSS and in some ways lower actually.

You can still get sharp point cues from JOSS while Schon couldn't even be compelled to do it for their recent small run of Balabushka "tribute" cues. They had CNC inlaid points.

Dan Janes is a Hall of Fame cue maker and a pioneer in the industry. He moved to CNC early, began coring of all his cues early, made dedicated jump and break cues as early as the mid 1980's if not earlier, made laminated shafts years ago and since moved away from it. He was making cues for ten years before Schon ever even started. I remember the early Schon cues. Very JOSS-like in my opinion. They are absolutely excellent cues but I have always seen them as JOSS wannabe cues. In the end they out-performed JOSS in pricing, but I don't believe they have ever out-performed JOSS as a cue. Yes, I know, they have a very loyal following and a lot of people like them and how they play. These are just my own opinions and admittedly are biased by my own long term relationship with my own JOSS.

JOSS continues to lead and innovate but not with loud flashy marketing, not with unrealistic claims of crushing victories or technology that will win pool games instead of a player's skill. They move steadily forward in dignified fashion.


One can absolutely spend more for a player than the asking price for a JOSS...but the question one must ask is "why?". Not that they can't be out-done by "customs" built to the discriminating and capable player's specifications...but when/if one reaches that level JOSS can and will build that for you too.


If you have money to burn or invest in art work, that's a different story. If you are just hooked on cues like a lot of us are, that's another story. I can't argue with somebody that owns, shoots with, or wants, a Scruggs/Gina/Szam/Hececk/etc. Heck, I desperately want a Mottey myself. But if one wants a killer player for smallish money, it's hard to beat a JOSS. In fact I say you really can't. Just wait and watch and you can find a JOSS in nice shape for $100-$150...just be ready to pounce because it will sell right away. I have four JOSS cues....and I paid $35 for the best one (seventies cue), $90 for my JOSS jumper brand new in about 1992, and $65 and $95 for the other two (the one for $95 came with a case and a Dufferin).

High end production cue? I say JOSS beats the rest. But then, I am biased and still stuck in a time when Varner and Sigel were beating everybody and their mother with JOSS cues.

Just look at JoseV's cue again......


.


.
i have to agree with Doc iam also loyal to Joss to me nothing compares but i have seem other awsome other brand cues. I also got lucky with my cue but if you want to see Joss outstanding work look at ralf souqets cue made by dan. My cue is a plain jane compared to it and thats a fact
 
Yeah, I agree. I always played my best game with a Joss cue when I was a kid (back when my game was at its highest level). I guess that the only reason that Schon cues are so much more expensive is because of the very expensive inlays. I see that the Custom Joss cues on their website are much higher priced than many of the Schon cues, and they all have super sharp points with veneers. I love sharp points, and veneers. I think it makes the cue look so much nicer.
 
Justin...in my opinion your Joss is one of the niciest models I've seen. I could purchase that model years ago for a little over 200.00 and it retailed for 400.00. But its a nice design and I wish I had some extra cash to get it.

And if I were you (And really did not need to) I would not sell it. But then again, I have sold many that I wish I has kept.

jjollie
 
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