Input on layered tips

ratcues said:
The layered tips need more grooming than the non layered. That is why they are glazing and/or miscueing. Try a tip pick and keep chalk on it.
I've found the exact opposite to be true, my layered tip never needs to be groomed once broken in. The reason for a lot of layered tips glazing over is the majority are made from pigskin which has a tight grain that closes up over time. Most solid tips are made from water buffalo which has a more open grain and tends to stay more loosely packed (even once broken in).

EDIT: Okay, my favorite solid tip is Triangle, but they have to be hard as a rock.
 
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i used to not like layered tips because they "just didn't feel right". ( i always played with crowns and champions) it was a pure feely thing. imo, they felt like they "slapped" the cb.

then i tried a moori soft and i changed my mind. maybe the soft masks that unnatural feel i got with other layered tips.
 
Varney Cues said:
Without a doubt your Sniper was ruined during the install, long before you hit a ball with it. They are in no way too soft...and they don't mushroom. Use the "search" to learn proper Sniper installation...or have the fine people at Tiger walk you through it. The Sniper is by far & away the finest tip available...you can do stuff with the cueball that you simply can not with other tips. But...they must be installed correctly.;)

Exactly. An inexperienced installer may blow the layers apart, thus making the tip play soft and mushroom. IMO, Tiger tips are well worth it. I love my Sniper.
 
ratcues said:
Exactly. An inexperienced installer may blow the layers apart, thus making the tip play soft and mushroom. IMO, Tiger tips are well worth it. I love my Sniper.

I agree

I went from Moori to Everest to Sniper. And it was an improvment each time. You just can't beat a Sniper. Great tips.
 
Use of a tip pic will break down the layers faster, I have found. Proper tapper works best for me. I like the LePro best.
 
I LOVE morri's :-)

BUT..i agree...

They dont hold chalk well
They mushroom sometimes
They glaze over FAR TOO QUICK

The spin they produce is second to none though!
 
Varney Cues said:
Without a doubt your Sniper was ruined during the install, long before you hit a ball with it. They are in no way too soft...and they don't mushroom. Use the "search" to learn proper Sniper installation...or have the fine people at Tiger walk you through it. The Sniper is by far & away the finest tip available...you can do stuff with the cueball that you simply can not with other tips. But...they must be installed correctly.;)

Varney, I did a search but couldnt find install instructions. Could you post a link?
 
intyeresting...

SnakePool said:
I used to use nothing but Triangles, well burnished, on any cue I played with. Now I use Talisman Hard and absolutely love them. I have tried the soft and the mediums and have settled with the hard. Chalking issues have never arisen with any of the talismans.

The one Moori Medium I tried glazed over and mushroomed like an Elk Master. I miscued all the time, it never held chalk and I just hated it. There has been alot of negative statements about Talisman, mostly about delamination, but I have never seen one delaminate. We use Talisman Medium as our stock tip on our Ob-1 Cue Shaft. I have never heard a complaint.

I have tried Sniper but it mushroomed like crazy and it was too soft. I will be trying Everest soon and I will surely voice my opinion.
:eek: I have been using Mooris for over a year now and have them on my 3 Cues that I use daily with no issues Ted Harris installed 1 last year and Steve Lomax did the other two this year on a Jacoby and a McDermott after a week or so I checked the sides and shape adjusting where needed and never touched them again all 3 are alive and well ! I do chalk using Master carefully with all shots especially when drawing with no problems! If you are one that does not like to chalk then Layered hards are really not for ya!:p
 
I used to hate layerd tips, I would try them and always went back to a Triangle. Then I got a new cue with a SNIPER tip on it and never looked back. Only problem is that sometimes my stroke gets so pure that I have a problem controlling just a little bit of bottom or follow. I really have to concentrate on being more center.
 
SnakePool said:
I used to use nothing but Triangles, well burnished, on any cue I played with. Now I use Talisman Hard and absolutely love them. I have tried the soft and the mediums and have settled with the hard. Chalking issues have never arisen with any of the talismans.

The one Moori Medium I tried glazed over and mushroomed like an Elk Master. I miscued all the time, it never held chalk and I just hated it. There has been alot of negative statements about Talisman, mostly about delamination, but I have never seen one delaminate. We use Talisman Medium as our stock tip on our Ob-1 Cue Shaft. I have never heard a complaint.

I have tried Sniper but it mushroomed like crazy and it was too soft. I will be trying Everest soon and I will surely voice my opinion.

I use a Talisman wb hard and it works fine for me. Is there much difference between the Talisman hard and the wb hard?
 
alstl said:
I use a Talisman wb hard and it works fine for me. Is there much difference between the Talisman hard and the wb hard?

IMO, the WB layers are a little thicker and play a tick softer. Both are good tips though.
 
Tim-n-NM said:
Varney, I did a search but couldnt find install instructions. Could you post a link?

Call or email Tony at Tiger and he'll walk you through it.
 
When installing a sniper make sure to wet the sides and use a sharp tool with a razorblade to trim the sides. Once it is cut you can burnish and shape like normal.
 
...

I've always been a fan of layered tips as the triangles and LePro's I had played with seemed a bit hard. A buddy game me a box of LePro's and he swears by them so I will probably try one today as I have a new cue to work over. I've used Moori's, Talisman, most of Tigers products, Molavia and I do like the Sniper and Everest tips. I have a lathe so I tend to clean my shafts reshape the tips often. I've read of problems with Talisman tips but I have had none and I've installed quite a few in the area's I've been in with no problems either.
 
Ok here's my 2 cents.


Being an avid user of both there are some definate pros and cons to both.



that's all.




Just kidding.

First to address one issue here.

Personally i am a hibitual, well... OCD Chalker. 8 Swipes after each hit while rotating the butt to get a nice even coat (but that's my crazy ass) As for chalk on Layered vs Solid, I can agree with the fact that they do lose chalk a little more, BUT if you notice that the chalk does gather between layers, really giving more grip to the places where the extra spin is generated.

Layered Tips:

I LOVE a moori soft on my playing cue. I use a Pred Sneaky with wood to wood joint. Finesse play at it's best.

On another note: If you've recently bought a Predator Z^2 shaft LOOK VERY CLOSELY at the ferrule for any defects. Predator made a bad run of ferrules and i was lucky enough to get one. I just had to send my NEW Z^2 shaft back to pred due to the ferrule snapping in 2 before i played 10 games with it.

Where i'm going with this is that i told them install a Moori 3 Soft, and by god that tip aint soft. AND I HATE IT!!!! I want to say it's a med, but it really feels too hard. I've used the Moori Power on my break cue and it isnt as hard as that tho. (P.S. **** a Moori Power get a nice stiff LePro fer breaking.) This is just to somewhat comfirm the earlier post about the gentleman not liking the Moori med. As for the Softs, i would swear by them. I hardly ever glazed the Moori Soft even pulling extreme english, they dont like to miscue. The Moori that is on my Pred shaft now glazes like pottery tho. Never had any problems with mushrooming
Ratings: Moori Soft 10/10 (Personally); Moori (whatever is on my cue now Med or Hard) 6/10, Moori Power: 4/10 (Considering for what it's used for i've never actually used it as a play tip)

I also currently use one of the new H2 tips that Herculese put out. For any of those wondering, The H2 is a little harder than the old Herc tips (in comparison) but are more reliable in their hit, and the Pre-Dome is kinda nice. I really cant complain about the H2s. Dont get glazed very easily. Even on some hard miscues they've endured with minimal glazing.
Also no noticeable mushrooming.
Rating: 8/10 Above average Tip at a below average price.

Tried Shooter 12 layer. Terrible! This lasted about 10 games on my stick. By the end of the night i could see where the layer was coming apart. I thought it might be that tip so i tried another from my stock cause i didnt want to throw the book at them yet. Low and behold the 2nd tip did the same. Lasted a lil longer, maybe a month, but the same results.
Rating: 3/10 I wont even reccomend them to my customers due to the terrible experience i had with em.

Super Pro: Another Layered tip. These are relatively new to the market you can notice them immeadiately due to their red color. These are a good tip. Rated at Hard, but due to their "core" for lack of a better way to put it they play at about a med. Holds up very well against mushrooming. Great for breaking or someone who loves to hammer sure shots, or every shot :P. Price is decent for their usefulness.
Rating: 6/10 Great break tip, above avg hard play tip

Now onto what you all actually want to hear :P Solid tips

Starting with the standard, LePro. I cant stand these tips personally. You have to pick through a full box to find 5 or 6 that are truely playable. But saying that i also have to say i like a soft tip. (To avoid any flame) LePro is a GREAT tip for it's price avg'ing about 20 a box on ebay minus shipping. They rate at a medium but their inconsistancies can put them at a med-soft to a too hard to play with in everyday. I've never had one mushroom on me though.
Rating: 7/10 If you dont mind sifting to find one that's right for you their price is great and on a tip-to-tip basis very consistant.

Elkmaster. Elkmasters are a VERY SOFT tip. Softest solid tip on the market i do believe. They have always done me good. One definate downside is that they do not burnish well hence the mushroom factor is increased exponentialy *sp*. Although, if you have a burnisher in your bag mushrooming shouldnt be that big of a factor because you dont need to cut the mushroom, simply move it back into place. Hardly ever glazes over and when it does not hard at all to scuff. Great Price, very low priced tip. Main problem i've found with them is that on MANY the glue side will be skewed which causes a big problem in shaping them. With that said there is a "Hand Picked" Selection of Elkmasters called Blue Diamond tips. I have no experience with them tho.
Rating: 7/10 Great tip if you like soft tips. Some small problems with them tho you might try the blue diamond line.

Triangle. Triangle Tips are tried and true. They scared me at first due to the way they ....tear.... when you shape them, but proved to be a great tip. They are a medium to medium hard tip that shoots at a medium soft. Good price. Doesnt glaze over easily.
Rating: 7/10 Great tip for those who like Medium

Triumph. Triumph tips have always been good to me. I began using them as a break tip due to their initial hardness, but they ...tear... like a Triangle when shaping giving them more grip on the cue ball. I'd rate their play as medium to medium soft dependant on the tip. They are a little more inconsistant on a tip-to-tip basis. Triumph comes packages with a fiber backing to be ivory friendly, but i have had this backfire on me. On an extreme bottom shot i had the tip tear away from the fiber backing. I dont know how often this would happen but i installed one on a customer's shaft and he has had no problems with it. Glaze factor is low. Mushrooming is nil, price is right.
Rating: 7/10 Very close to a Triangle, base it on your preference tip-to-tip

That's all i have folks... is it enough?


---Chris
 
I have tried many different tips. I used to work at a billiard supply, and I could try any tip I'd like for free. I have used LePro, Talisman, Elkmaster, Champion, Triangle, and others.

After trying all of these tips, I would have to say, that I ALWAYS go back to a good ol' Triangle. They hold shape VERY well, and last a long time. With a little picking, you can get plenty of action on the cue ball. Some, however; can be too hard, and will miscue often. You can find a good one by taking it them out of the box, and performing a sound hardness test. Those with lower pitch are softer, and in my opinion, are better. They are still plenty hard and will hold shape, but not too hard so that they miscue easily.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
I would like to hear from the people that DO NOT like or use layered tips and why they don't.

I'm not looking for right or wrong, just insight and opinions.

Thanks,

Dave

I've probably had every layered tip on the market installed on one of my shafts at some point in the past, and now I'm back to using a hard triangle...by far my favorite tip of the lot.

If you prefer a very firm tip, there is absolutely no advantage with a layered tip, esp if you have a great repairman like I do who uses a durometer and can give me the same tip hardness everytime. With medium and soft tips, the multiple layers *might* control some spreading, or at the least the tip will mushroom at a slower rate.

The biggest benefit to layered tips is consistency. With some brands, there are many drawbacks, mainly with delamination issues (talismans are notorious for this) and poor chalking qualities.

-Roger
 
buddha162 said:
If you prefer a very firm tip, there is absolutely no advantage with a layered tip, esp if you have a great repairman like I do who uses a durometer and can give me the same tip hardness everytime.
I agree with that statement. I like my tips very hard and at that level the feel difference between a great Triangle and Moori is negligible.

The problem, I can't seem to locate any Triangle tips that are hard enough. They always seem like fluffy pillows these days. If Triangle went back to the way they used to be many years ago, I'd toss my layered tips in the garbage.
 
Klopek said:
The problem, I can't seem to locate any Triangle tips that are hard enough. They always seem like fluffy pillows these days. If Triangle went back to the way they used to be many years ago, I'd toss my layered tips in the garbage.

If you play with a shaft that is < 12.8mm, the 13mm triangles are much harder than the 14mm ones. But even in a box of 14mm's my cueman manages to find a few that are hard enough. By hard enough I mean they virtually won't mushroom at all, and will compress very little from normal play through the life of the tip (given that you don't break with it).

-Roger
 
buddha162 said:
If you play with a shaft that is < 12.8mm, the 13mm triangles are much harder than the 14mm ones. But even in a box of 14mm's my cueman manages to find a few that are hard enough. By hard enough I mean they virtually won't mushroom at all, and will compress very little from normal play through the life of the tip (given that you don't break with it).

-Roger
Thanks for the tip Roger, I actually use a 12.75mm tip so maybe I'll order some 13mm Triangles. The ones I ordered before were the 14mm ones. I ordered about 10 from an online retailer thinking I'd get at least 5 decent ones. Damned if they were all too soft!. :)

Thought about buying a durometer but resigned myself to just using hard layered tips thinking they might be more conistent. They are, but still have some serious deviations from tip to tip.:rolleyes:

For the price, nothing beats a nice shaved down and pressed triangle.
 
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