inquiry, just wanted your opinion

joyren

joyren

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi to all,
well me and my friend ask a CM to help us do an experiment, i know this experiment of ours is new to us here, but there in USA, its nothing new

IMG00014-20101207-1500.jpg


well what we did was to make this handle which by the way is an ironwood cored into the forearm, but not simple coring, we make it into a threaded core both handle and forearm, sorry, wasn't able to get a picture of it. this tenon is 8 inches long to be inserted to the forearm which is also 8.20 depth with thread too

well what we initially did was to core the forearm, but problems with the boring since we only have some tools which can do use,but still we did it :), but someone gave me a site for gun drilling which will surely eliminate my concerns for heat, compression. in the future experiments

well instead of coring how about a threaded tenon, what good will this give me?what bad too? hope some of you here can advice us.

many thanks
 
A mechanical bond along with the adhesive bond certainly won't hurt. In fact, most cue makers use a similar method to joint their handle to the forearm. The difference is that most are using a threaded metal pin rather than a threaded wooden tenon, and the pin is typically much shorter than your 8" long tenon. I can imagine that you'll have some glue relief issues with your current set up, and thus hydrolic pressure may prevent you from being able to tighten this assembly all the way up to where it needs to be. (Not to mention that a thin, slow setting adhesive will be a must with that many threads.) IMO 8" of threads is over-kill. You could probably accomplish your goal by threading the last inch of your tenon and the first inch of your forearm. Also, since your forearm is tapered, and your tenon is not, the longer it is, the thinner the walls of your forearm become at the end of the tenon. Just something to think about.
Enjoy the journey!
 
joyren said:
Hi to all,
well me and my friend ask a CM to help us do an experiment, i know this experiment of ours is new to us here, but there in USA, its nothing new

IMG00014-20101207-1500.jpg


well what we did was to make this handle which by the way is an ironwood cored into the forearm, but not simple coring, we make it into a threaded core both handle and forearm, sorry, wasn't able to get a picture of it. this tenon is 8 inches long to be inserted to the forearm which is also 8.20 depth with thread too

well what we initially did was to core the forearm, but problems with the boring since we only have some tools which can do use,but still we did it :), but someone gave me a site for gun drilling which will surely eliminate my concerns for heat, compression. in the future experiments

well instead of coring how about a threaded tenon, what good will this give me?what bad too? hope some of you here can advice us.

many thanks
Click to expand...
Well coring will help stabilize your forearm. It is also used for weight purpose too! I use a threaded core throughout the whole butt of my cues now! I would core all the way through the forearm if your already going 8" into it! It will be more stable and less chances of movement! IMO! I will tell you this much. Fully cored and threaded are fun getting the points even! I know there are some people asking why is that so hard to get the points lined up. Well just give it a try and you will see.! There is a trick or two that makes it a lot easier!!!
 
Thank you Mr. Hoppe for your insights, honestly, adhesive is one of my major concerns, by applying a very slow pace glue is a must :)

my second concern about your suggestion to apply glue on the first inch inner and last inch inner tenon, would that be enough? i dont want to have some vibration on the forearm since no glue was applied in the middle?

honestly it is an overkill, hehehe just wanted to try something out of extra ordinary
Again thank you Mr. Hoppe for the insights
God Speed

Mr Hoppe said:
A mechanical bond along with the adhesive bond certainly won't hurt. In fact, most cue makers use a similar method to joint their handle to the forearm. The difference is that most are using a threaded metal pin rather than a threaded wooden tenon, and the pin is typically much shorter than your 8" long tenon. I can imagine that you'll have some glue relief issues with your current set up, and thus hydrolic pressure may prevent you from being able to tighten this assembly all the way up to where it needs to be. (Not to mention that a thin, slow setting adhesive will be a must with that many threads.) IMO 8" of threads is over-kill. You could probably accomplish your goal by threading the last inch of your tenon and the first inch of your forearm. Also, since your forearm is tapered, and your tenon is not, the longer it is, the thinner the walls of your forearm become at the end of the tenon. Just something to think about.
Enjoy the journey!
Click to expand...
 
Thank you sir for your insights too,

wow coring the whole forearm thru and thru that's something we are thinking about to do in the near future, hopefully you can assist/help us on how to do it. :) what specialize tools we need to do it, how can we eliminate, heat, compression and pressure. those are problems we are facing now.

again you're also right in saying the reason why we did this is for balance and weight purposes of the cue.

sir, so what specific glue can you recommend us to use so that every part of the thread would have adhesives?

sir, if i may ask, are you only using seasoned maple as tenon or some other woods as well? like PH or other woods?

thanks for some insights, surely it will help my CM here in our country to help him improve

patrickcues said:
Well coring will help stabilize your forearm. It is also used for weight purpose too! I use a threaded core throughout the whole butt of my cues now! I would core all the way through the forearm if your already going 8" into it! It will be more stable and less chances of movement! IMO! I will tell you this much. Fully cored and threaded are fun getting the points even! I know there are some people asking why is that so hard to get the points lined up. Well just give it a try and you will see.! There is a trick or two that makes it a lot easier!!!
Click to expand...
 
joyren said:
Thank you Mr. Hoppe for your insights, honestly, adhesive is one of my major concerns, by applying a very slow pace glue is a must :)

my second concern about your suggestion to apply glue on the first inch inner and last inch inner tenon, would that be enough? i dont want to have some vibration on the forearm since no glue was applied in the middle?

honestly it is an overkill, hehehe just wanted to try something out of extra ordinary
Again thank you Mr. Hoppe for the insights
God Speed
Click to expand...
No, glue the whole thing, but only thread the first inch.
 
You can use Gorilla glue or preferably Wes Systems! I use several diferrent cores in my butts. The cue maker should know what to use when coring. Sorry there are some things that I wont reveal. But I will say this ANY cue builder knows how to do this. The reason I wont reveal how I do it is because the person that passed this along to me has a patent pending on this idea of his and it is not my place to reveal how it is done! I am sure with a little resaerch from you or your friend he will figure this out in about 5 min on here.
 
patrickcues said:
You can use Gorilla glue or preferably Wes Systems! I use several diferrent cores in my butts. The cue maker should know what to use when coring. Sorry there are some things that I wont reveal. But I will say this ANY cue builder knows how to do this. The reason I wont reveal how I do it is because the person that passed this along to me has a patent pending on this idea of his and it is not my place to reveal how it is done! I am sure with a little resaerch from you or your friend he will figure this out in about 5 min on here.
Click to expand...

Well,that no problem sir,we will just try to figure this out for ourselves,:) hopefully we can figure this out before the pending patent :)
Again I would like to thank you for your insights on this matter.
Hope we can find these types of glues here will research on this adhesives
 
You can order Wes System glue from West Systems directly or from Prathers. Atlas I think also sells it. I dont know if there is Walmarts over there but they sell Gorilla glue. Good luck with your project!
 
patrickcues said:
You can use Gorilla glue or preferably Wes Systems! I use several diferrent cores in my butts. The cue maker should know what to use when coring. Sorry there are some things that I wont reveal. But I will say this ANY cue builder knows how to do this. The reason I wont reveal how I do it is because the person that passed this along to me has a patent pending on this idea of his and it is not my place to reveal how it is done! I am sure with a little resaerch from you or your friend he will figure this out in about 5 min on here.
Click to expand...

What is the patent app. for Doug?
If I might ask .
Can you patent an idea? Or is it on a tool ?

If it's better than a gun drill, he'll be a millionaire.
 
joyren said:
Thank you sir for your insights too,

wow coring the whole forearm thru and thru that's something we are thinking about to do in the near future, hopefully you can assist/help us on how to do it. :) what specialize tools we need to do it, how can we eliminate, heat, compression and pressure. those are problems we are facing now.

again you're also right in saying the reason why we did this is for balance and weight purposes of the cue.

sir, so what specific glue can you recommend us to use so that every part of the thread would have adhesives?

sir, if i may ask, are you only using seasoned maple as tenon or some other woods as well? like PH or other woods?

thanks for some insights, surely it will help my CM here in our country to help him improve
Click to expand...

Although I don't thread my cores, I sometimes core pointed forearms after the points are installed. As you can see from PIC 1 and PIC 2, you can use anything you want for the core, depending on if you want to emphasize stability or balance issues. Both West System & Gorilla type glues work well. Just be sure to fully wet all surfaces with West. A sharp gun drill is all you need but a few trials on scrap wood are suggested to fine tune your setup. I typically core a pointed forearm when it is 1/16" oversize & have no problem getting perfectly even points. The A-joint end also comes out true - especially noticeable with 5 point cues with miniscule webs between points.

One hint: I disagree with those who step drill before gun drilling. A gun drill is designed to drill a blind hole in one shot. The proper air pressure applied to the drill will both clear the chips & keep your heat down. A lead hole becomes a large vent that prevents the air pressure from doing its job.

There are a few other little tricks but figuring them out is half the fun of cuemaking!
 
JoeyInCali said:
What is the patent app. for Doug?
If I might ask .
Can you patent an idea? Or is it on a tool ?

If it's better than a gun drill, he'll be a millionaire.
Click to expand...
As far as I know it was on the design! Not on a tool! I just re-read his question. I thought he was asking how to do what we are doing here. He was asking about how to core it.
 
patrickcues said:
As far as I know it was on the design! Not on a tool! I just re-read his question. I thought he was asking how to do what we are doing here. He was asking about how to core it.
Click to expand...

i have check, but i think we dont have this gun drill bit here :frown: :frown: :frown: well will still look for one, hehehe :):):)

well as i am seeing the gun drill, i will definitely need some accessories like the tool stand, clampers, wow seems to be expensive
 
joyren said:
i have check, but i think we dont have this gun drill bit here :frown: :frown: :frown: well will still look for one, hehehe :):):)

well as i am seeing the gun drill, i will definitely need some accessories like the tool stand, clampers, wow seems to be expensive
Click to expand...
Check with cueman on here Chris Hightower is his name he sells them. They come in several sizes I have a 1/2 5/8 11/16 and 3/4 gun drills the size depends upon your preference . Yes you will quit a bit tied up in them. But you can sometimes find someone here selling there's also,.
 
patrickcues said:
Check with cueman on here Chris Hightower is his name he sells them. They come in several sizes I have a 1/2 5/8 11/16 and 3/4 gun drills the size depends upon your preference . Yes you will quit a bit tied up in them. But you can sometimes find someone here selling there's also,.
Click to expand...

thanks Doug for the heads up, would you mind know his username here? surely would want to buy a few to test drilling
again thanks
 
thresded tenon

i treaded some cues together like this a few years ago.after they were complete ,i got funny sounds from them.they were threaded about 5 in. and glued with gorilla glue.i feel that there was probally voids where the glue was pushed out by the theading.i went back to the old way with a metal pin to pull the two joints tight.and for coring i do a 5/8 to a 3/4 step under the forearm and then join under the handle.on my cues with sectioned handles they are solid cored end to end.
 
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