Inside English, Outside English Definition

[pocket]

Here are the definitions from the glossary on Dr. Dave's site:

inside english (IE): sidespin created by hitting the cue ball on the side towards the direction of the shot (i.e.
on the “inside” of the cue ball). For example, when the cue ball strikes an object ball on the left side, creating
a cut shot to the right, right sidespin would be called “inside english.”

outside english (OE): sidespin created by hitting the cue ball on the side away from the direction of the shot
(i.e. on the “outside” of the cue ball). For example, when the cue ball strikes an object ball on the left side,
creating a cut shot to the right, left sidespin would be called “outside english.”


http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/glossary.pdf

Now I'm back to being confused. This is how I understood "inside" and "outside", but I was told I was wrong. Then pt109 and captainjko gave the plausible explanation for how it should be interpreted, but their explanation in in contrast with Dr Dave.

 

[PoolBum]

And that's why we have "what's your favorite drill" threads.

Well, sure, if you use a drill it makes inside english easier, but then the question is low deflection drill or no low deflection drill?

 

[PoolBum]

I used to think outside English is when the pool table is outside, like on the patio. :grin:

That's why I have a set of all-weather cues. You never know when you're gonna get to the tournament and find out it's an outdoor tourny.

 

[michael4]

Despite how people actually define this, I think the best way is simply when cb hits ob and the English is running off the ball is running English. Maybe I didn't explain that good but that's how I see it.

I think using the cushions to define inside outside is super confusing.

What if you never hit a cushion.

I define running English by the angle in which the CB hits the rail (not the object ball).

(just take a CB, and hit it directly into the rail at 45 degrees, using English on one side, than on the other side, and see what happens)


If you never hit a cushion, you shouldn't be using English on that shot.

 

[Cornerman]

Well, sure, if you use a drill it makes inside english easier, but then the question is low deflection drill or no low deflection drill?

Extremely low deflection. It's boring, I know.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I believe outside english is english applied to the outside of the cue ball, while inside english is english applied to the inside of the cue ball. That's what makes inside english so difficult to use.

I play with TOI. Inside is easy to me.

 

[JC]

Put an object ball on the foot spot. Put the cue ball on the head spot. Shoot the object ball into one of the pockets using a tip of English 10 times. Now shoot it into the same pocket 10 times using the opposite English. The side you missed more from is inside English. The side you made the shot more is outside.

If you made it all the time with both spins, you're ready to go pro.:wink:

JC

 

[AtLarge]

... If you never hit a cushion, you shouldn't be using English on that shot.

???

English is useful on lots of shots where the CB hits no cushion.

[spin-induced throw]

 

[AtLarge]

Now I'm back to being confused. This is how I understood "inside" and "outside", but I was told I was wrong. Then pt109 and captainjko gave the plausible explanation for how it should be interpreted, but their explanation in in contrast with Dr Dave.

They seem consistent to me.

 

[Cornerman]

Despite how people actually define this, I think the best way is simply when cb hits ob and the English is running off the ball is running English. Cb hits the ball and English is sticking or going in the opposite direction of the cb is inside. Maybe I didn't explain that good but that's how I see it. I think using the cushions to define inside outside is super confusing. What if you never hit a cushion.

A better way to explain it would be friction. Same as above but when the cb is running off (less friction) it's running. When cb is spinning back (more friction) would be inside.

If I'm practicing my inside English shots it's that sticking, higher friction English, which makes the ball harder to pocket imo. It would not matter what the cb is doing when it hits the rail.

But inside/outside is specific to the cue ball/object ball contact spin, while running/hold up/check/reverse are specific terms for the cueball/cushion contact spin. If you weren't aware of that, that's why it's confusing.

Freddie

 

[pt109]

Well, sure, if you use a drill it makes inside english easier, but then the question is low deflection drill or no low deflection drill?

Extremely low deflection. It's boring, I know.

I bought a team once in a scotch doubles tournament ...figured I couldn't lose...
...it was Black and Decker...they played like they were plugged in....
...but they ran out of power....:sad:

Gonna buy them next calcutta though...it's a rotation tournament....

 

[michael4]

???

English is useful on lots of shots where the CB hits no cushion.

[spin-induced throw]

True. I was trying to keep it simple.

 

[Swighey]

Check post # 13 in your dime shaped thread.
....don't feel bad about this confusion....George Fels was calling it the opposite until we
convinced him in a thread a few years ago.

A famous player years ago also called inside english "CHECK" and outside english "RUN"...
...until I showed him that both could be either run or check.

Snooker players, and English pool players and some billiard players, are more likely to use the terms "check" and "running". Check side generally equates to inside english and running side to outside english. The lovely diagrams drawn by a previous poster sum it up perfectly, regardless of what you call it. Check side and running side are slightly more technical, and become harder to define when making thin cuts or rail first contact.

Having said that, if someone suggests that you put inside english or check side on the ball, refer to the picasso-esque diagrams. Do the same for outside english or running side.

You could even think of CJ Wiley's "touch of inside" as "checking your action". He'll probably disagree though and say that a meager, paltry, unpretentious bit of english isn't really english at all. In which case you aren't checking your action at all and are in fact hitting center ball, CJ styley. "Touch of Inside" is a better marketing tool for milking rookies than "Bit of check mate, 'innit" even though the latter, when vocalised, sounds more like a 1950s horror movie.

 

[dr_dave]

Isn't it just "outside english" would be away from the pocket you are shooting at, and "inside english" would be towards the pocket?

I had someone explain it to me at league and I just couldn't understand the definition given.

FYI, the english (sidespin) terminology resource page has definitions and illustrations of inside/outside/running/reverse english and more.

Regards,
Dave

 

[jasonlaus]

Put an object ball on the foot spot. Put the cue ball on the head spot. Shoot the object ball into one of the pockets using a tip of English 10 times. Now shoot it into the same pocket 10 times using the opposite English. The side you missed more from is inside English. The side you made the shot more is outside.

If you made it all the time with both spins, you're ready to go pro.:wink:

JC

This^^^^^
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

But inside/outside is specific to the cue ball/object ball contact spin, while running/hold up/check/reverse are specific terms for the cueball/cushion contact spin. If you weren't aware of that, that's why it's confusing.

Freddie

And this^^^^^^
Jason

 

[JRusso]

Please DELETE

 

[JRusso]

See the picture below.... It is a Picasso drawing...... lol... In the shot below, if you strike the cue ball on the left side , it is inside english.. If you strike the cue ball on the right, it is outside english..

This diagram depicts it as I have always understood it.

 

[hang-the-9]

Uh oh....

If the first cushion isn't adjacent/connected to the pocket, you have every possibility where inside is running english. The standard three-railer opening break in 3C is such a shot (disregarding that you're not potting a ball). It's used many times in pool.

It all depends on what angle the cueball is heading toward the cushion. In fact, just a standard follow three railer, even if the cushion is connected, is almost always running english.


Freddie

Actually I thought of where inside spin would cause "running" english, this shot used inside english and lengthens the angle off the first cushion.

 

[fastone371]

Actually I thought of where inside spin would cause "running" english, this shot used inside english and lengthens the angle off the first cushion.

Whether its inside or outside english is made in refernce to the first thing the cue ball hits.
In your diagrams its inside because the cue ball hits the object ball first. If it hits the rail first then its outside or running english.